tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:I have asked this question several times without a response:

had melo waited for free agency would the knicks be better than they are now?

Absolutely not. I'd like someone to give an example of how they could possibly be better or even close to as good. An oft-injured Stoudemire, Gallo, W Chandler, Felton (who would have been paid much more had he stayed in ny), fields, Shumpert, and a couple of mid-salary FAs would have been a disaster given Stoudemire's last 1 1/2 years. It would have been a team built around a star who is fighting to stay healthy and in his prime. Who is the best player we could have put a package for other than Melo? Kevin Martin? Absolutely not Igoudala, maybe Nash. But that's about it. I bet our starting lineup without the trade would be Stoudmire, Gallo, C Chandler, Fields, and Nash with MDA as head coach.

Patience is everythig, I’m sure Orlando would gladly take all the assets we gave for Melo instead of the package they got from the Howard trade.
Having the flexibility to excute a trade at any oportunity, by having our young players and picks is just as important as having the so call STAR (Melo) considering that we still a 500% team, just like before the trade. We remain average with little flexibility to get better.

I don't think they would have taken the Knicks package. The Nets package was significantly better and they did not accept it. They took this package for a reason. People vasty overrated our package on this board.

or maybe you just vastly overrate melo?

Melo would have been long gone for the Nets package if he agreed to an extension, thats a fact. How am i overrating him in that scenario? Do you not see it the same way? Did we not get Melo for the simple fact that he strong-armed his way here? NJ was willing to give way more up for him. They desperately wanted a "star" to go into Brooklyn with. Did they overrate him too?

walsh was ready to let him go to the nets from all indications.. until dolan stepped in.. You are overrating melo because you rate him as a star player and he is not.. we traded some young talented players and picks for a guy we had no business getting.. we could have waited.. guys like CP3 and dwight were still headed to be free agents soon.. and this is before we knew of them getting traded so please don't say" they were traded how could we get them".. the point is.... knicks didn't need to make a move for the sake of making a move.. we did that with melo and we still didn't get a star player.. that sucks.

Totally Agree, even a player like IGGY, who isn't rated a "ALL STAR" but improves a team would have been a much better fit than Melo.
I thought IGGY and Kaman, were 2 players that could have been plan C that we could have targetted while not over paying for a "ALL STAR" that does not fit in with what we were building.
At least I get to see how Iggy can improve players like Gallo/Wilson Chandler with his ball handling/DEF and versatility could have been.

I think Melo is a big name that it truly over rated and NOT efficient, as well as a STAT WHORE and DIVA that we will regret.
Rudy Gay is also a FA when our big 3 expires, if a team can make him a starting SG instead of a SF/PF he would be able to dominate like he did during his first 2 years.
His athleticism, length, guard skills, and size would be a huge mismatch, he could also be a solid defender as well.

fishmike wrote:If we let MElo go to the Nets the Knicks could still have resigned Wilson AND brought in Tyson. No reason Lin wouldnt have been on the roster either.

Could have been
pg Felton/Lin
sg Shump/Fields
sf Gallo/Chandler
pf Amare
c Chandler/Mosgov

pretty good 8 guys to work with

i'll say! also you can't assume any of the injuries shumpert, lin, and stat got would have still happened under different circumstances.

RonRon wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:I have asked this question several times without a response:

had melo waited for free agency would the knicks be better than they are now?

Absolutely not. I'd like someone to give an example of how they could possibly be better or even close to as good. An oft-injured Stoudemire, Gallo, W Chandler, Felton (who would have been paid much more had he stayed in ny), fields, Shumpert, and a couple of mid-salary FAs would have been a disaster given Stoudemire's last 1 1/2 years. It would have been a team built around a star who is fighting to stay healthy and in his prime. Who is the best player we could have put a package for other than Melo? Kevin Martin? Absolutely not Igoudala, maybe Nash. But that's about it. I bet our starting lineup without the trade would be Stoudmire, Gallo, C Chandler, Fields, and Nash with MDA as head coach.

Patience is everythig, I’m sure Orlando would gladly take all the assets we gave for Melo instead of the package they got from the Howard trade.
Having the flexibility to excute a trade at any oportunity, by having our young players and picks is just as important as having the so call STAR (Melo) considering that we still a 500% team, just like before the trade. We remain average with little flexibility to get better.

I don't think they would have taken the Knicks package. The Nets package was significantly better and they did not accept it. They took this package for a reason. People vasty overrated our package on this board.

or maybe you just vastly overrate melo?

Melo would have been long gone for the Nets package if he agreed to an extension, thats a fact. How am i overrating him in that scenario? Do you not see it the same way? Did we not get Melo for the simple fact that he strong-armed his way here? NJ was willing to give way more up for him. They desperately wanted a "star" to go into Brooklyn with. Did they overrate him too?

walsh was ready to let him go to the nets from all indications.. until dolan stepped in.. You are overrating melo because you rate him as a star player and he is not.. we traded some young talented players and picks for a guy we had no business getting.. we could have waited.. guys like CP3 and dwight were still headed to be free agents soon.. and this is before we knew of them getting traded so please don't say" they were traded how could we get them".. the point is.... knicks didn't need to make a move for the sake of making a move.. we did that with melo and we still didn't get a star player.. that sucks.

Totally Agree, even a player like IGGY, who isn't rated a "ALL STAR" but improves a team would have been a much better fit than Melo.
I thought IGGY and Kaman, were 2 players that could have been plan C that we could have targetted while not over paying for a "ALL STAR" that does not fit in with what we were building.
At least I get to see how Iggy can improve players like Gallo/Wilson Chandler with his ball handling/DEF and versatility could have been.

I think Melo is a big name that it truly over rated and NOT efficient, as well as a STAT WHORE and DIVA that we will regret.
Rudy Gay is also a FA when our big 3 expires, if a team can make him a starting SG instead of a SF/PF he would be able to dominate like he did during his first 2 years.
His athleticism, length, guard skills, and size would be a huge mismatch, he could also be a solid defender as well.

YEA, People kept thinking we needed another star.. while that would have been great, they just were not available at the time.. And to be fair, carmelo is good at what he does, he can score, but for me, he offers little else to be such a diva.. while people look at melo and say he is better than guys like iggy, that is not completely true.. he is a better scorer than iggy, but is carmelo's scoring that great where it overides the other assets guys like iggy, manu, etc bring to the table? And I also will add that carmelo is overrated as a scorer.. I have already been down that road so I don't want to get off track too much..

Again, the key is,we had some young guys with talent, who were already proving that they could thrive in the NBA and most of all NY... lets be real how many second and third year players in the league were giving you 15/5 shooting over 42% in this league as starter? usually they are considered valued young and improving talents that most teams want to get their hands on.. and oh, chandler.. 15/5 shooting almost 48% and these stats were in 2010 they were 22 and 23 respectively.... and on top of that both guys could play 3 positions.... No they were not superstars but heck, they were good young talents.. Not to add all of the cap space we gave denver, losing Anthony randolph who I still think is an intriguing talent, mozgove was just thrown in and the Picks? Jeeeeeeez...........

As far as rudy gay.. I like him, he is a guy I think could help this team and at a much cheaper cost... the key is flexibility.. as 3g mentioned.. walsh wasn't the greatest GM, but he did leave this team with some talent and flexibility... we were set up to make some nice moves... right now we are at a dead end,and if we don't win it all, the rebuilding of this mess can be and will be painful...

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:If we let MElo go to the Nets the Knicks could still have resigned Wilson AND brought in Tyson. No reason Lin wouldnt have been on the roster either.

Could have been
pg Felton/Lin
sg Shump/Fields
sf Gallo/Chandler
pf Amare
c Chandler/Mosgov

pretty good 8 guys to work with

i'll say! also you can't assume any of the injuries shumpert, lin, and stat got would have still happened under different circumstances.

I tried to make this point back on the previous page. When you make trades players may or may not have to play different role/position or assume roles they aren't accustomed to, or play in a way that puts too much pressure on their body, or play with other players they aren't familiar with at all, etc etc hence unforeseen occurrences but we can't surely say team untouched or minor tweaks same players get injured.

I'd wager no current Knick fans thought Tyson/Smith/Amar'e/Camby would all be hurt before the season starts?

fishmike wrote:If we let MElo go to the Nets the Knicks could still have resigned Wilson AND brought in Tyson. No reason Lin wouldnt have been on the roster either.

Could have been
pg Felton/Lin
sg Shump/Fields
sf Gallo/Chandler
pf Amare
c Chandler/Mosgov

pretty good 8 guys to work with

This is not better than the current roster. Melo is substantially better than Gallo and Chandler. JR and Brewer are better than trashy Fields. Camby & Sheed, despite being elderly, are better than freaking Mozgov. LoL @ clinging to that laundry list (Gallo, Wilson, Lin) of third to second tier players at very best.

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:If we let MElo go to the Nets the Knicks could still have resigned Wilson AND brought in Tyson. No reason Lin wouldnt have been on the roster either.

Could have been
pg Felton/Lin
sg Shump/Fields
sf Gallo/Chandler
pf Amare
c Chandler/Mosgov

pretty good 8 guys to work with

i'll say! also you can't assume any of the injuries shumpert, lin, and stat got would have still happened under different circumstances.

I tried to make this point back on the previous page. When you make trades players may or may not have to play different role/position or assume roles they aren't accustomed to, or play in a way that puts too much pressure on their body, or play with other players they aren't familiar with at all, etc etc hence unforeseen occurrences but we can't surely say team untouched or minor tweaks same players get injured.

I'd wager no current Knick fans thought Tyson/Smith/Amar'e/Camby wouldn't all be hurt before the season starts?

yes i saw the point you made which i agree with 100%. everything would have been different with one caveat: the only thing you can say for sure is that age and wear and tear catch up with players with a lot of miles on them. stoudemire was bound to break down eventually but then you don't assume he is going to bust his back on the layup line, or smash a fire extinguisher. so far as i am concerned these injuries are the "melo effect." the knee thing is another story as that as in effect pre-ordained.

also, i assume that, since walsh had already seen and was intrigued by lin, that lin would have been picked up and be available as a backup to felton last season, foregoing being run into the ground by a desperate d'antoni. that is, there would be no need to pick up both davis and bibby. and last year would have been the last year for felton. he would have failed walsh's audition in my opinion.

dk7th wrote:

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:If we let MElo go to the Nets the Knicks could still have resigned Wilson AND brought in Tyson. No reason Lin wouldnt have been on the roster either.

Could have been
pg Felton/Lin
sg Shump/Fields
sf Gallo/Chandler
pf Amare
c Chandler/Mosgov

pretty good 8 guys to work with

i'll say! also you can't assume any of the injuries shumpert, lin, and stat got would have still happened under different circumstances.

I tried to make this point back on the previous page. When you make trades players may or may not have to play different role/position or assume roles they aren't accustomed to, or play in a way that puts too much pressure on their body, or play with other players they aren't familiar with at all, etc etc hence unforeseen occurrences but we can't surely say team untouched or minor tweaks same players get injured.

I'd wager no current Knick fans thought Tyson/Smith/Amar'e/Camby wouldn't all be hurt before the season starts?

yes i saw the point you made which i agree with 100%. everything would have been different with one caveat: the only thing you can say for sure is that age and wear and tear catch up with players with a lot of miles on them. stoudemire was bound to break down eventually but then you don't assume he is going to bust his back on the layup line, or smash a fire extinguisher. so far as i am concerned these injuries are the "melo effect." the knee thing is another story as that as in effect pre-ordained.

also, i assume that, since walsh had already seen and was intrigued by lin, that lin would have been picked up and be available as a backup to felton last season, foregoing being run into the ground by a desperate d'antoni. that is, there would be no need to pick up both davis and bibby. and last year would have been the last year for felton. he would have failed walsh's audition in my opinion.

My wouldn't in the quote... should say would....lol

Correct the Bibby and Baron pickups wreaked of sure desperation. For crying out loud we picked up Baron when reports stated he was 8weeks out at a minimum with a broke back. Walsh would have done what he usually does and stayed patient until there was a low risk high reward opportunity. He would have checked the waiver or waited until a trade presented itself. Nash more than likely was on his radar this summer. Not saying we would have landed him because once again "Melo Effect". Nash made comments recently it was between the Raptors his Home Pride and Lakers....we were not in his final decision making process.....You can believe it was because No D'AnToni here but if you do why was there no D'AnToni here?

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

fishmike wrote:If we let MElo go to the Nets the Knicks could still have resigned Wilson AND brought in Tyson. No reason Lin wouldnt have been on the roster either.

Could have been
pg Felton/Lin
sg Shump/Fields
sf Gallo/Chandler
pf Amare
c Chandler/Mosgov

pretty good 8 guys to work with

This is not better than the current roster. Melo is substantially better than Gallo and Chandler. JR and Brewer are better than trashy Fields. Camby & Sheed, despite being elderly, are better than freaking Mozgov. LoL @ clinging to that laundry list (Gallo, Wilson, Lin) of third to second tier players at very best.

that is a lie.. but funny you say that because the nuggets were substantially better than the knicks.. funny how that works..

There is not a GM or coach in the entire league that would prefer Gallo and Chandler over Melo. Everyone knows that. I can understand your issues with Melo, but to say he's not substantially better is just crazy talk.

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

fishmike wrote:If we let MElo go to the Nets the Knicks could still have resigned Wilson AND brought in Tyson. No reason Lin wouldnt have been on the roster either.

Could have been
pg Felton/Lin
sg Shump/Fields
sf Gallo/Chandler
pf Amare
c Chandler/Mosgov

pretty good 8 guys to work with

This is not better than the current roster. Melo is substantially better than Gallo and Chandler. JR and Brewer are better than trashy Fields. Camby & Sheed, despite being elderly, are better than freaking Mozgov. LoL @ clinging to that laundry list (Gallo, Wilson, Lin) of third to second tier players at very best.

that is a lie.. but funny you say that because the nuggets were substantially better than the knicks.. funny how that works..

Gallo is not even half of Melo and neither is Chandler. You are a delusional and at this point can't even be remotely taken seriously.