tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:tkf which scenario is the shortest route to winning? trying to get these guys to fit or having stat off the bench?

oh, I agree having stat off the bench... but honestly, I wonder what kind of player you get with stat off the bench? is he even ready to accept that role.. we may all know what may be best for the knicks, but stat has to buy into that.... and I am not sure he will...

depends on who is playing point guard. felton sucks in the pick and roll. kidd and prigoni will likely be better.

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:tkf which scenario is the shortest route to winning? trying to get these guys to fit or having stat off the bench?

oh, I agree having stat off the bench... but honestly, I wonder what kind of player you get with stat off the bench? is he even ready to accept that role.. we may all know what may be best for the knicks, but stat has to buy into that.... and I am not sure he will...

depends on who is playing point guard. felton sucks in the pick and roll. kidd and prigoni will likely be better.

my question to you dk... how do we go about getting amare to the bench, without making it seem like a deomtion in his eyes? that is my worry... I don't think you would be able to see this to him, no way, no how.... it might be more of a distraction than trying to mesh him and melo together... either way, I think we have problems....just to what degree according to the route we take....

i don't know how you feel about stat as far as self-awareness and presence of mind and ego, but i'd pick him over carmelo if those were the traits by which we measure a teammate. yes he came here for the big payday and yes, in my opinion, he isn't the savviest player i have ever seen... but at the end of the day if he wants to win and redeem himself in the eyes of all he won't allow a fragile ego get in the way. what i am saying is that his ego is less fragile than carmelo anthony's.

havlicek and ginobili and harden are starting material who provided greater value to their teams by coming off the bench. i bet you can think of others too. if i was getting 32 minutes a game in a pick and roll lineup and freedom to work efficiently while helping the team win, i don't see how it could be viewed as a demotion. he would be doing his thing against a larger percentage of scrubs too. he needs to find a niche where he ends up being a positive-sum player.

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:nash wants to win and he stands a better chance doing that with an aging bryant and a recovering howard... oh and gasol.

as bryant ages he will need to morph into more of a jumpshooter, although i don't think he is effective as a catch and shoot guy which could be a problem. nash is already a great jumpshooter. i see them taking turns as drivers and shooters, preserving each other. if bryant refuses to adapt his game then yes it will get ugly.

nash coming here would have been great, since he loves new york and i believe has a place here.

but how would nash solved the biggest problem of all: getting one undersized 4 masquerading as a 3 and a 3 masquerading as a 4 or 5 to be productive with and for one another? the melo stoudemire pairing is just plain impossible. and woodson does not have the ability to work that out.

additionally, how can the knicks have a defensive identity when their two most expensive players are not defensive-minded?

this team must have looked pretty whack for nash not to want to come here to his second home.

Carmelo played very solid D for Woody and Amare actually tried - thats a start.

Also, you are ignoring the main problem ... The Amare and Tyson pairing. I am not sure how but with some fans, this goes under the radar.

Kobe will not change and it will get ugly. However, perhaps the Lakers have too much talent to fail. How will the opposing teams get any rebounds? I am also not sure how Howard and Gasol will co-exist. If anyone can make it happen its Nash. Amare should give 50 million of his bloated contract to him.

that is a red herring and does not speak to the heart of the problem.

stoudemire came here first as part of a grand plan to unite him with a pick and roll coach and pick and roll point guard.

carmelo forces his way here and that all gets thrown out the window.

i don't like that stat was shunted aside for someone who has accomplished less but is somehow regarded as a more valuable player.

i don't like how he became the whipping boy for this team.

and i don't like how he is the problem when talking about chemistry.

the more valuable player should be the one who works to make others around him better. if melo is the more valuable player of the two then he should STFU and do what he can to make stoudemire comfortable if not better. he should be deferring as much as possible to let stat get his and work on defense and rebounding, and getting to the line when he goes iso, not jacking up long 2s. he should be learning how to run the simplest play in basketball, the pick and roll.

Stat makes others better? How? With his 1:2.5 Assist to TO ratio?

Nash made Stat better - much much better. MDA/Felton made STAT better (at least for a little while)

Melo is considered more valuable because the market determined that he is. Nobody wanted Stat.

Melo is considered better because while Stat was once really good, he has had many health issues, missed both playoff series (practically), does not play ANY defense and can't even knock down his used to be deadly open J.

There is nothing more that I would love than to eat crow about Stat. I actually think he might fly out of the gate but I fear what PHX feared - that he won't hold up.

then we should have went hard after nash or sold the far, for an elite PG.. meaning we should have waited on chris paul, or went to the suns with a real nice offer for nash back then.....If nash made amare "much, much" better, then why not?

Our hopes for Chris Paul went out the window with the Chandler / Billups move. Not that it was a bad one but very expensive in regards to flexibility.

We tried to give up the farm for Nash but the Lakers had a bigger farm.