ChuckBuck wrote:tkf and 3G4G get a room! The headboard from all the banging is making too much noise.

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:tkf and 3G4G get a room! The headboard from all the banging is making too much noise.

That gif gest me everytime!

GustavBahler wrote:

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:How did Larry Brown workout?

Brown had his own agenda separate from basketball. He was trying to get Isiah fired. When you start players whenever they're in their hometown you aren't being serious about coaching. Brown thought he could outlast Isiah but he had no understanding of the intense man love IT and Dolan shared. Brown has won on every level. First coach to win both a NCAA and a NBA championship so when you give him the talent and he's serious about getting the job done he can do great things. His downside is that he can be just as much of a diva as some of the the superstar athletes he coaches.

WHICH HAD he accomplished should have garnered him coach of the year honers, regardless of team record.. LOL..

I liked brown.... everyone knows how he operates. He tears down and then builds up.. Isiah and marbury had their own agenda as well.... Brown was too good for this dysfunctional organization...

Isn't it interesting how LB had an AGENDA with Thomas fans at the time said LB should have just done the job he was hired to do but when Melo had issues with D'AnToni and revealed after his exodus he wasn't giving true effort early on.... Melo was to be taken as misunderstood and he needed the right person to light a fire under him...or a better way of putting it Coddled and Enabled him.

I usually avoid these MDA vs Melo discussions because its usually with someone who believes its all Melo's fault when to it falls on both of them IMO. Their lack of success wasn't just because Melo quit, they were losing before that, but also MDA's job as a coach and motivator. I was saying that about MDA before Melo even got here. In addition Melo tries to play hero ball too much in the late stages of the game when they're down.

Melo was absolutely wrong for quitting on D'Antoni and and D'Antoni was flat out wrong for making Melo the second or too often the third option, he's one of the best scorers in the league, former scoring champ. Woodson was the first coach to get Melo to play on both sides of the court so I don't know if "coddle" is the right word. If Melo only wanted to only score he would have quit on Woodson as well. They both got along at the olympics from what I've read and I think they both understand that it was a bad fit and have moved on.

Never was a fan of D'AnToni and most of it had nothing to do with X's and O's. Although I feel in his contract year he was mistreated very unfairly by this organization. I didn't appreciate the way MD dealt with the young players or roster in general and his attitude towards the media was less than desired. Nevertheless we didn't bet the farm with D'AnToni but with Melo we did. When he is on the floor playing, he has the most control to get the job done and that means whatever it takes to get the job done. Now if he's on the bench for long stretches, layering himself with Gatorade Towels as if he's going to be stuck at the top of Mount Everest for a few weeks okay certain circumstances may be beyond his control but...

Like LB said when he was here...."I shouldn't have to beg you to practice, I shouldn't have to beg you for effort, I shouldn't have to beg you to care."

3G4G wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:How did Larry Brown workout?

Brown had his own agenda separate from basketball. He was trying to get Isiah fired. When you start players whenever they're in their hometown you aren't being serious about coaching. Brown thought he could outlast Isiah but he had no understanding of the intense man love IT and Dolan shared. Brown has won on every level. First coach to win both a NCAA and a NBA championship so when you give him the talent and he's serious about getting the job done he can do great things. His downside is that he can be just as much of a diva as some of the the superstar athletes he coaches.

WHICH HAD he accomplished should have garnered him coach of the year honers, regardless of team record.. LOL..

I liked brown.... everyone knows how he operates. He tears down and then builds up.. Isiah and marbury had their own agenda as well.... Brown was too good for this dysfunctional organization...

Isn't it interesting how LB had an AGENDA with Thomas fans at the time said LB should have just done the job he was hired to do but when Melo had issues with D'AnToni and revealed after his exodus he wasn't giving true effort early on.... Melo was to be taken as misunderstood and he needed the right person to light a fire under him...or a better way of putting it Coddled and Enabled him.

I usually avoid these MDA vs Melo discussions because its usually with someone who believes its all Melo's fault when to it falls on both of them IMO. Their lack of success wasn't just because Melo quit, they were losing before that, but also MDA's job as a coach and motivator. I was saying that about MDA before Melo even got here. In addition Melo tries to play hero ball too much in the late stages of the game when they're down.

Melo was absolutely wrong for quitting on D'Antoni and and D'Antoni was flat out wrong for making Melo the second or too often the third option, he's one of the best scorers in the league, former scoring champ. Woodson was the first coach to get Melo to play on both sides of the court so I don't know if "coddle" is the right word. If Melo only wanted to only score he would have quit on Woodson as well. They both got along at the olympics from what I've read and I think they both understand that it was a bad fit and have moved on.

Never was a fan of D'AnToni and most of it had nothing to do with X's and O's. Although I feel in his contract year he was mistreated very unfairly by this organization. I didn't appreciate the way MD dealt with the young players or roster in general and his attitude towards the media was less than desired. Nevertheless we didn't bet the farm with D'AnToni but with Melo we did. When he is on the floor playing, he has the most control to get the job done and that means whatever it takes to get the job done. Now if he's on the bench for long stretches, layering himself with Gatorade Towels as if he's going to be stuck at the top of Mount Everest for a few weeks okay certain circumstances may be beyond his control but...

Like LB said when he was here...."I shouldn't have to beg you to practice, I shouldn't have to beg you for effort, I shouldn't have to beg you to care."

My bad, 3G4G. You're right about MDA yelling at the young players and giving the vets a pass. I had mixed feelings about Melo when he got here, his reputation isn't sterling, but he is a rare talent. Melo can be handful at times but I thought that he didn't deserve to take all the blame, neither did MDA. I understand that Melo getting paid the big bucks so he is going to take a larger share than most players.

If Melo had an issue with the way he was being used he should have brought it up with MDA which I don't believe he did. If he wasn't satisfied with the answer he should have waited until the season was over and talked to someone afterwards instead of quit. At the same time MDA should have known that telling Melo to camp in the corner and move away from what he does best was a recipe for disaster.

I like the LB quote. I still think you need a coach with motivational skills for the times when players are putting in the effort but the results still aren't there. Players getting discouraged is normal, no excuse to shut it down however. If the team fails this season, I don't believe it will be due to lack of effort from Melo or anyone else.

loweyecue wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Smart? Someone said smart? We want Marbiry 2 on the team? AGAIN?
That WOULD be smart, indeed. We will soon be left smarting for more!

The guy who always wanted Isiah and Gilbert Arenas also wants T-Max, what else do you need to know
This whole "TOUGH" image people have created for Woodson is so tired and lame. He will be hard pressed to just handle MelO and JR. Now we have Kidd on top of that. What he WAS is irrelevant, what he IS, is what we will GET.

Woodson had no problem getting in JR's face in front of everyone when he f'ed up so I don't see him having any trouble handling him. As for Melo, I don't see him having issues with Woodson since he plans on making the most of the skills Anthony brings to the table. I can't remember the last time Kidd had issues with a coach. Trees, yes, coaches no.

Getting in someone's face doesn't resolve the problem. Especially with people who are already multi-millionaires. This is why the old school coaching mindset no longer fits. Woodson will eventually go the Larry Brown route. He can get in people's faces all he wants once a course guys tune him out we won't be able to get rid of him fast enough. Not saying that's how it should be. But "toughness" don't mean jack when you can't back it up and Dolan won't let Woodson mess with his favorite toys.

You're right, that alone doesn't do it, Woodson will also sit a player who doesn't perform. Case in point, right after Woodson took the head coaching job, when Lin was the talk of the NBA and a huge moneymaker for the Knicks, Jeremy was turning the ball over like he was under MDA and Woodson wasn't having it. He was pulling Lin early in the first, yelling at him, and it paid off because after getting pulled a few times, Lin's turnovers started to drop and he played under control. As far as that approach being old school, it worked for Rick Carlisle. His problem was knowing when to back off which is why he kept getting fired despite having a great track record. Pops still gets in people's faces so its not like that way of doing things is dead and gone. Woodson has backed it up. If he is willing to sit a cash cow like Lin to make a point, I don't believe he will having any problem sitting anyone else.

As far as McGrady, I never suggested it was necessarily a good move but it wouldn't bother me because I don't believe if he did cause problems that he would have the same effect as say a Marbury who was the face of the franchise. Can we do better? Yes. I don't see it as a move that will adversely affect the Knicks and its a low risk gamble IMO.

I will believe woodson when he sits carmelo and amare for not playing defense.

That's pretty much the point I am trying to make. Woodson talks a tough game, but he is not going to hold Melo and Amare accountable because he doesn't have the nuts to do it and he loves his job too much.

Gustav, everything you are saying is one form of punitive action or another. Players today need motivators and coaches who can help them visualize the promised land of championship glory. I don't think Woodson has any ability at all as a motivator or a energizer. Punishment goes only so far, one dimensional coaches make piss poor leaders. Check exhibit A - our last coach.

This is why it was so important to go after the few guys who can do both - like Pjax, Sloan etc.
Woodson will be exposed soon enough.

Lol let the guy coach a full season before throwing him in the river. We gave MDA at least 3 and half years before we ran him out of town.

+1

and folks are still defending MDA. There was very little time left in the season and this team wasn't would you would call deep. . If Woodson gives Melo and Stat a pass next season I will be right here with you guys criticizing him.

Defend MDA? Do you guys read? I called him a failure as a leader.
What I said about Woodson is based on his career as a coach. But somehow it's ok for you guys to form an opinion based on 18 games that he can handle Melo just fine, but when I say something I get the canned response? This is why most discussions go no where on this board.

Wasn't referring to you loweyecue or I would have said so. I was pointing out that some posters out there are still defending MDA after all these years. Not necessarily you. I live for your canned responses, you know that.

loweyecue wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Smart? Someone said smart? We want Marbiry 2 on the team? AGAIN?
That WOULD be smart, indeed. We will soon be left smarting for more!

The guy who always wanted Isiah and Gilbert Arenas also wants T-Max, what else do you need to know
This whole "TOUGH" image people have created for Woodson is so tired and lame. He will be hard pressed to just handle MelO and JR. Now we have Kidd on top of that. What he WAS is irrelevant, what he IS, is what we will GET.

Woodson had no problem getting in JR's face in front of everyone when he f'ed up so I don't see him having any trouble handling him. As for Melo, I don't see him having issues with Woodson since he plans on making the most of the skills Anthony brings to the table. I can't remember the last time Kidd had issues with a coach. Trees, yes, coaches no.

Getting in someone's face doesn't resolve the problem. Especially with people who are already multi-millionaires. This is why the old school coaching mindset no longer fits. Woodson will eventually go the Larry Brown route. He can get in people's faces all he wants once a course guys tune him out we won't be able to get rid of him fast enough. Not saying that's how it should be. But "toughness" don't mean jack when you can't back it up and Dolan won't let Woodson mess with his favorite toys.

You're right, that alone doesn't do it, Woodson will also sit a player who doesn't perform. Case in point, right after Woodson took the head coaching job, when Lin was the talk of the NBA and a huge moneymaker for the Knicks, Jeremy was turning the ball over like he was under MDA and Woodson wasn't having it. He was pulling Lin early in the first, yelling at him, and it paid off because after getting pulled a few times, Lin's turnovers started to drop and he played under control. As far as that approach being old school, it worked for Rick Carlisle. His problem was knowing when to back off which is why he kept getting fired despite having a great track record. Pops still gets in people's faces so its not like that way of doing things is dead and gone. Woodson has backed it up. If he is willing to sit a cash cow like Lin to make a point, I don't believe he will having any problem sitting anyone else.

As far as McGrady, I never suggested it was necessarily a good move but it wouldn't bother me because I don't believe if he did cause problems that he would have the same effect as say a Marbury who was the face of the franchise. Can we do better? Yes. I don't see it as a move that will adversely affect the Knicks and its a low risk gamble IMO.

I will believe woodson when he sits carmelo and amare for not playing defense.

That's pretty much the point I am trying to make. Woodson talks a tough game, but he is not going to hold Melo and Amare accountable because he doesn't have the nuts to do it and he loves his job too much.

Gustav, everything you are saying is one form of punitive action or another. Players today need motivators and coaches who can help them visualize the promised land of championship glory. I don't think Woodson has any ability at all as a motivator or a energizer. Punishment goes only so far, one dimensional coaches make piss poor leaders. Check exhibit A - our last coach.

This is why it was so important to go after the few guys who can do both - like Pjax, Sloan etc.
Woodson will be exposed soon enough.

Lol let the guy coach a full season before throwing him in the river. We gave MDA at least 3 and half years before we ran him out of town.

+1

and folks are still defending MDA. There was very little time left in the season and this team wasn't would you would call deep. . If Woodson gives Melo and Stat a pass next season I will be right here with you guys criticizing him.

Defend MDA? Do you guys read? I called him a failure as a leader.
What I said about Woodson is based on his career as a coach. But somehow it's ok for you guys to form an opinion based on 18 games that he can handle Melo just fine, but when I say something I get the canned response? This is why most discussions go no where on this board.

Wasn't referring to you loweyecue or I would have said so. I was pointing out that some posters out there are still defending MDA after all these years. Not necessarily you. I live for your canned responses, you know that.

No soup for you! How's that for canned response?

Crap, I like soup.

Count J.R. Smith among those who think Tracy McGrady still has something left to give.

“Definitely,” Smith told The Post when asked if McGrady could help the Knicks after Yahoo! Sports reported Thursday McGrady has worked out for the team. “T-Mac has always been an elite player in this league.

“We need all the help we can get in every area. … So whenever a big name comes up that can help our team, we’ve got to get him.”

I guess the Knicks didn't need all the help they could get when they had a 40yr old point guard here to be a backup and a 35yr old foreign prospect point guard who has never played in the NBA when Lin was still a possibility to be re-signed. I guess Lin wasn't a big enough name in J.R.'s opinion. He's sure is speaking to the press quite a bit this summer.

You see these guys will speak up and show support when it's to their liking. Ego got all in the way of Lin's return not money

AnubisADL wrote:JR Smith knows the deal.

We can't expect major production from James White and Copeland.

Except Smith qualified it and said "EVERY AREA" nice try though.

We can still do better than McGrady he's done. Trust if McGrady wasn't done he would have been offered more than League Minimum by other teams who have Copeland's and White's on their squads by now.