mrKnickShot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Yankee fans of the 80's felt the same way. Winning cures everything - if we continue to lose, there will be more "waning". If we start winning, the kvetching will (hopefully) cease.

Knicks aren't winning anything for the next 20yrs unless they get paul and they have no shot without lin and draft picks

Nobody thoughts the Gmen could beat the pats and they did it twice.

Dallas was not that great and they won.

Anything is possible in sports - much of it is lotto - if Lebron decides on NY than we could have been celebrating.

CRAPSHOOT

The knicks don't have to win it all but be as competitive as the 90's for fans to chill.

im not sure getting close is gonna be enough for the younger/new fans... based on the moves they are making and some of what anthony has said (my time is coming), this feels like an all or nothing season. given the cap/tax/etc in the next few years, i suspect they may start over if they cant make the ecf at a min. start over could mean yet another long stretch for the younger fans to be turned off from.

i expect my college team to never ever compete in football... didnt think i would go my whole life so far as a knicks fan and get to see them get close only 1 time (99 wasnt close to me). could be worse and be a clips/gsw fan (at least to date)...

JamesKPolk wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Yankee fans of the 80's felt the same way. Winning cures everything - if we continue to lose, there will be more "waning". If we start winning, the kvetching will (hopefully) cease.

Knicks aren't winning anything for the next 20yrs unless they get paul and they have no shot without lin and draft picks

Nobody thoughts the Gmen could beat the pats and they did it twice.

Dallas was not that great and they won.

Anything is possible in sports - much of it is lotto - if Lebron decides on NY than we could have been celebrating.

CRAPSHOOT

The knicks don't have to win it all but be as competitive as the 90's for fans to chill.

im not sure getting close is gonna be enough for the younger/new fans... based on the moves they are making and some of what anthony has said (my time is coming), this feels like an all or nothing season. given the cap/tax/etc in the next few years, i suspect they may start over if they cant make the ecf at a min. start over could mean yet another long stretch for the younger fans to be turned off from.

i expect my college team to never ever compete in football... didnt think i would go my whole life so far as a knicks fan and get to see them get close only 1 time (99 wasnt close to me). could be worse and be a clips/gsw fan (at least to date)...

No offense to anyone here...but if this team does not win a championship within 3 years it is a failure. The goal is to win a championship, not be a decent playoff team. We haven't won a championship in 40 years. I'm not going to stand around and give a golf clap to good effort. It's time to win. The 90's Knicks at least made 2 Finals appearances. They fought hard with not nearly the same amount of 'talent' we have now. No lame excuses or feeling sorry for ourselves. If they don't win a championship eventually then they are a failure. End of story.

+1. Our time is now. We're locked into this roster for the next 3 years so if it doens't happen it is a failure and we're back to rebuilding yet again.

sidsanders wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Yankee fans of the 80's felt the same way. Winning cures everything - if we continue to lose, there will be more "waning". If we start winning, the kvetching will (hopefully) cease.

Knicks aren't winning anything for the next 20yrs unless they get paul and they have no shot without lin and draft picks

Nobody thoughts the Gmen could beat the pats and they did it twice.

Dallas was not that great and they won.

Anything is possible in sports - much of it is lotto - if Lebron decides on NY than we could have been celebrating.

CRAPSHOOT

The knicks don't have to win it all but be as competitive as the 90's for fans to chill.

im not sure getting close is gonna be enough for the younger/new fans... based on the moves they are making and some of what anthony has said (my time is coming), this feels like an all or nothing season. given the cap/tax/etc in the next few years, i suspect they may start over if they cant make the ecf at a min. start over could mean yet another long stretch for the younger fans to be turned off from.

i expect my college team to never ever compete in football... didnt think i would go my whole life so far as a knicks fan and get to see them get close only 1 time (99 wasnt close to me). could be worse and be a clips/gsw fan (at least to date)...

No offense to anyone here...but if this team does not win a championship within 3 years it is a failure. The goal is to win a championship, not be a decent playoff team. We haven't won a championship in 40 years. I'm not going to stand around and give a golf clap to good effort. It's time to win. The 90's Knicks at least made 2 Finals appearances. They fought hard with not nearly the same amount of 'talent' we have now. No lame excuses or feeling sorry for ourselves. If they don't win a championship eventually then they are a failure. End of story.

+1. Our time is now. We're locked into this roster for the next 3 years so if it doens't happen it is a failure and we're back to rebuilding yet again.

i do not think it has 3 years. if the progress isnt sufficient this year, i think its start over next off season as best they can.

debatable as to what progress is maybe. to me its at a min of ECF, and a strong showing in it. title would be better of course.

I agree. Logical expectation.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:I apologize Bonn - thought it was funny.

Martin/Andrew, can you delete my post?

It's OK.

deleted / edited

bad taste and unbecoming - like Mr. .470 or 1-4 against Miami

You're right; it's really .472

Not cool - base your arguments on context to be fair and balanced

OK - we traded away most of the team to get Melo and then, shockingly, he had a weak supporting cast, he was an inefficient chucker/ball-stopper, and the team has played at a .472 in games he's played in.

Propaganda - is that what you teach in psych class?

I teach how to spot bad argumentation and regularly bring in your posts

hahahahah - you should be more classy and less about propaganda - you don't need it (unless you feel weak)

Propaganda and agenda are just pointless words that amount to nothing more than "I disagree with that person"

Its good you don't teach English.

Propaganda and Agenda are when people/posters/politicians (PPP) ignore facts context and often simple logic when it works/does ot work for them.

With Lin we would have another scoring option defenses have to respect and we will then have a much more balanced offense. I think this would have made us good enough to get to the ECF but would have depended on Melo and Lin being able to play with each other.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:I apologize Bonn - thought it was funny.

Martin/Andrew, can you delete my post?

It's OK.

deleted / edited

bad taste and unbecoming - like Mr. .470 or 1-4 against Miami

You're right; it's really .472

Not cool - base your arguments on context to be fair and balanced

OK - we traded away most of the team to get Melo and then, shockingly, he had a weak supporting cast, he was an inefficient chucker/ball-stopper, and the team has played at a .472 in games he's played in.

Propaganda - is that what you teach in psych class?

I teach how to spot bad argumentation and regularly bring in your posts

hahahahah - you should be more classy and less about propaganda - you don't need it (unless you feel weak)

Propaganda and agenda are just pointless words that amount to nothing more than "I disagree with that person"

Its good you don't teach English.

Propaganda and Agenda are when people/posters/politicians (PPP) ignore facts context and often simple logic when it works/does ot work for them.

I was referring to how posters actually use the words, not to their definitions.

I was referring to how you exercise them.

In all seriousness, I don't disagree with a lot of you substance in your posts/args but it gets cheapened (IHHO) when you resort to propaganda and emotion.

Was the Melo trade a good one? Maybe not. Are they better with him? Hard to say either way since you/we would be judging against completely different casts. Is it his fault that we only won one game in the playoffs? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I think we would have been better off trading the same players for Deron Williams.

Are the knicks improved? THey certainly are - they have PG's.

mrKnickShot wrote:

loweyecue wrote:I voted yes - but barely. As many have noted we now have some depth at PG. I still don't know what Pablo can or can't do, but we are two deep at PG and that's two more than about 70% of last season including both MDA and Woody games. I think our interior defense improved but our perimeter defense all but disappeared. Our offense will sill be stagnant unless STAT can really get going (not very hopeful). If we stay healthy and have everyone available we can improve our regular season win percentage. But overall I think we are still headed for a second round exit.

With Lin we would have another scoring option defenses have to respect and we will then have a much more balanced offense. I think this would have made us good enough to get to the ECF but would have depended on Melo and Lin being able to play with each other.

Very fair assessment

Thanks

loweyecue wrote:I voted yes - but barely. As many have noted we now have some depth at PG. I still don't know what Pablo can or can't do, but we are two deep at PG and that's two more than about 70% of last season including both MDA and Woody games. I think our interior defense improved but our perimeter defense all but disappeared. Our offense will sill be stagnant unless STAT can really get going (not very hopeful). If we stay healthy and have everyone available we can improve our regular season win percentage. But overall I think we are still headed for a second round exit.

With Lin we would have another scoring option defenses have to respect and we will then have a much more balanced offense. I think this would have made us good enough to get to the ECF but would have depended on Melo and Lin being able to play with each other.

STAT doesn't have to be a monster, but he does need to be his career efficient self. Last year was a huge drop off in his midrange game, which really hurt more than anything. When his jumper was on, he was absolutely lethal. Dude also needs more touches. No more games with JR having more touches than STAT. I still believe in STAT and think he'll have a bounce back year.

You make a GREAT point about Lin. The one thing that I really think made him so special for us was his ability to get into the teeth of a defense and finish at the rim. We simply won't have that same threat from the PG spot where he can take over games for a period of time. Lin was starting to really get a rep for 4th qtr surges where he would take over and get this team wins. Neither Felton, Kidd nor Prigioni can do that. I think guard penetration is a HUGE necessity against tough defenses. You have to be able to break a defender down and weaken a defense in order to create great scoring opportunities. I know WOODY favors an ISO game, but I think that's why he's only 12-22 in the playoffs.
I think for this team to win he's got to make some changes in his philosophy. Just don't know if he's gonna do that.

Still this team is stronger now and hopefully everything can come together and lead to a finals appearance. Melo is gonna have to play out of his mind for an entire season tho. Last 2 years he's had a hot month in each season, but that may not be enough for what we need from him as the star of the team.

BRIGGS wrote:So 3 40 year old players and a fat PG make us better? Let reality come in next season

1 fat and 1 old PG is better than no PG's.