Rookie wrote:Other than financial penalties, are there restrictions on taxpaying teams?

In addition to the tax payments described in question number 21, taxpaying teams have the following restrictions. Note that most of these restrictions aren't triggered unless the team would be over the "apron" -- the point $4 million above the tax level -- following a signing or trade.

Teams above the apron cannot use the Bi-Annual exception (see question number 25).

Teams above the apron have a smaller Mid-Level exception (see question number 25). Teams above the apron can offer contracts no longer than three years, while other teams can offer four. The starting salary is also lower (for example, in 2011-12 it is $3 million for teams above the apron, versus $5 million for other teams).

Taxpaying teams can acquire less salary in a simultaneous trade (see question number 81).

Starting in 2013-14, teams above the apron cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 88).

Teams above the apron do not have the same protections under the Gilbert Arenas provision (see question number 44). Under the Arenas provision other teams can offer restricted free agents salaries starting at the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. If a team with the right of first refusal does not have Early Bird rights to the player and is over the apron, it will have only the smaller Taxpayer Mid-Level exception at its disposal, and cannot match an offer for the full Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception.

In addition, taxpaying teams do not receive a distribution from the leaguewide tax fund. However, they do receive a distribution from the escrow fund (see question number 22).

The first two years are still at $5Mil, the third year Melo/Tyson/Amare takes us way over the apron (Cap + 4M. Other than Lux Tax going up what difference does the change in contract terms make?

You wanna blame someone for us being over the cap? Start with the two underperforming overpaid albatross contracts.

holfresh wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:If reports are true, looks like Lin wants to leave...We should have worked a Lin for Lowery trade before it came to this...

huh? lin is just trying to get paid like every player would.

It seems like Lin's team may have asked for the third year to be higher so the Knicks will have difficulty matching it, which is cool...Get what u can I guess, but it handicaps the Knicks going forward...He jsut isn't worth it, we aren't talking about Chris Paul here...

We will be over the cap even without Lin in year 3. So his contract only makes us pay more in Luxury Tax.

Clean wrote:

holfresh wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:If reports are true, looks like Lin wants to leave...We should have worked a Lin for Lowery trade before it came to this...

huh? lin is just trying to get paid like every player would.

It seems like Lin's team may have asked for the third year to be higher so the Knicks will have difficulty matching it, which is cool...Get what u can I guess, but it handicaps the Knicks going forward...He jsut isn't worth it, we aren't talking about Chris Paul here...

We will be over the cap even without Lin in year 3. So his contract only makes us pay more in Luxury Tax.

Well I'm not sure what the intricacies are cap wise, but if he hinders future signings, then let him walk...If he doesn't want to be in NY, why force him...I'm sure the Knicks know what his intentions are...

loweyecue wrote:

Rookie wrote:Other than financial penalties, are there restrictions on taxpaying teams?

In addition to the tax payments described in question number 21, taxpaying teams have the following restrictions. Note that most of these restrictions aren't triggered unless the team would be over the "apron" -- the point $4 million above the tax level -- following a signing or trade.

Teams above the apron cannot use the Bi-Annual exception (see question number 25).

Teams above the apron have a smaller Mid-Level exception (see question number 25). Teams above the apron can offer contracts no longer than three years, while other teams can offer four. The starting salary is also lower (for example, in 2011-12 it is $3 million for teams above the apron, versus $5 million for other teams).

Taxpaying teams can acquire less salary in a simultaneous trade (see question number 81).

Starting in 2013-14, teams above the apron cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 88).

Teams above the apron do not have the same protections under the Gilbert Arenas provision (see question number 44). Under the Arenas provision other teams can offer restricted free agents salaries starting at the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. If a team with the right of first refusal does not have Early Bird rights to the player and is over the apron, it will have only the smaller Taxpayer Mid-Level exception at its disposal, and cannot match an offer for the full Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception.

In addition, taxpaying teams do not receive a distribution from the leaguewide tax fund. However, they do receive a distribution from the escrow fund (see question number 22).

The first two years are still at $5Mil, the third year Melo/Tyson/Amare takes us way over the apron (Cap + 4M. Other than Lux Tax going up what difference does the change in contract terms make?

You wanna blame someone for us being over the cap? Start with the two underperforming overpaid albatross contracts.

Knowing what you know about Lin thus far and knowing what you knew about Melo and Amare before signing them... Who would you bet on?
Which 2 out of the three would be worth going over the cap for?

That is the question at hand.
Amare- 20 mil
Melo - 20 mil
Lin - 15 mil

He'll be making star money but is he actually a star pg in the NBA withought the luxury of hindsight?

Knicksfan wrote:

MinsHeartsReezy wrote:This changes a lot. It's clear that Dolan's pockets are pretty deep and if it were just the money I doubt management would think twice about matching the contract. But with the other restrictions...it makes sense they would take their time to think it through.

I'm surprised Lin's agreed to the offer...but then again it's a business...so I'm not.
The other possibility is maybe he doesn't want us to match...it's not as though he's been vocal about staying in NY. It's all speculation and we'll just have to see how it plays out.

I like Lin but I hope he realizes that once he signed this contract... he's no longer going to get a pass for essentially being a sophomore player and still learning after only playing 25 meaningful games in his career and ending the year with an injury. At least you can say Amare and Melo are proven talents and have earned the rights to their large contracts. Lin going to have to earn his paycheck and live up to the potential he's getting paid for. He better freakin play up to the 25mil + Lux tax + restrictions that may be put on the team. And Lin will hear it big time from the fans if he doesn't live up to it. LOL...I think it's safe to say he's only seen the sunny side of NY so far.

I hope he does live up to his potential, and I hope he's a Knick when he does it.

On another note if Jorts is still available in 90 days and we have an open spot...are we allowed to sign him?

Completely agree. No more sugar coating his situation. We match and he better bring it. You sign such a contract, you better be ready for the heaven and hell it will provide. Linsanity was everybody's darling because of the great and uplifting story. Not anymore. You should deliver now consistently, Lin.

...and what if we match and he doesn't live up to that exorbitant deal?

He will STILL get paid his guaranteed money, and the Knicks will look like the suckers of the century.

Just because Dolan has bilions should not mean hat everyone can play this team for suckers. Players and other teams won't try to play us like that if the Knicks refuse to tolerate such treatment. Once we get shafted by one team, the whole league will believe that they can pull the same wool over our heads for any deal on any player. It'll be reliving the Isiah Thomas regime all over again.

Also, Lin isn't thinking about how all this will affect his reputation here. That is, of course, unless he doesn't want to be here, which has already been suggested. In that case, whoever doesn't want to be here, why the F*ck would the Knicks (or the fans) want him?

The Knicks give this guy a shot at making a name for himself, and this is how he shows his gratitude. The initial offer sheet was too much, yet tolerable. This sounds like the Rockets AND Lin are trying o push the envelope.

If Lin thinks that the 3rd year+ was "too small" then the Linsanity run has obviously gone to his head and for all I care, we should let him suck on that deal in Houston, while dragging out the drama out raising holy hell about it to Stern.

I wonder if Yao Ming is advising Lin on this? Just curious...

I have a feeling Lin isnt going to live up to his contract.

Let him rack up losses in H-Town.

Papabear wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Papabear wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

All I can say now is that Lin better be the real deal or he will hear it from the fans. And if he ain't the real deal we make him sit the second year until he is so frustrated that he would want a buy out for maybe half of the third year.

OK so then both Melo and amare should sit this year, you cool with that? Right.

Papabear Says

Melo and Amare has proved themselves through out the years. Lin has had only 30 games. How can you compare?? You can't!!

I am not comparing anything. You were talking about being the real deal and no player on our roster outside of Tyson and Shump are even close to playing at a level that justifies what we pay for them.

Papabear Says

When Amare first came to the Knicks he played almost a whole season 25 points a game. Melo single handedly took us to the playoffs. I'll tell you what! When those other players you are talking about can play 7 straight years at a high level like Amare and Melo then come talk to me about Lin Shump, and Chandler. Man Chandler needs to work on scoring and rebounding. Defense I'll give him credit.
Back in the day I had a singer like that no one would give him a break but I did and produced a hit record on him. It went to his head and we split up and I continued to produce and write hit songs and he never got another hit song.
What I am saying is that Lin is putting a strain on the team. But business is business you got to look out for yourself.

25 pts a game justifies a max contract??? What about the 35+ points he gives up on defense every night? David Lee produced 20+ a game AND he grabbed 10+ rebounds.

Melo singlehandedly took us to the playoffs???????? Without Lin and the 9 game streak your precious Melo and Amare wouldn't even have sniffed the playoffs in the weakest conference we have seen in a while. Put the kool-aid down and step away from the keyboard.

Actually the Knicks did him a favor. We had a set amount we could offer him at Max (like 4 years 24 mil). But we can match any offer. The original offer sheet that was talked about was an extra $5 mil. We told him to get what he can and we will match it. Thing is no one possibly expected him to get an offer like this. Now the Rockets are well within their rights to change an unsigned offer. Lin is well within his rights to try and get more for something that is unsigned.

However this is dirty of BOTH Lin's camp and Houston. Regardless of Camby. What is the point of agreeing to an offer sheet? If the NBA allows this to stand, I bet within the next 5 years we will see a team agree to an offer sheet with a player to block a move (much like Toronto did) during the moratorium then withdraw said sheet when things have played out. I use the Fields thing as an example. This basically sets the precedent that verbal agreements mean nothing. Meaning now that moratorium means nothing. What if a player verbally agrees to an offer sheet then backs out before it is signed? The NBA is seriously playing a dangerous game here.

On a side note, you think the NBA and the Knicks have had enough of Lin? The NBA had to fight the whole Bird rights issue now they have a situation where Lin is smack dab in the middle of skirting the spirit of the CBA again. And the Knicks really did everything they could to get Lin as much money as they can- bird rights case and letting him get an offer higher then their Max they could have offered-if reports are correct about Lin's camp being the pushing force behind this-and he really stuck it up their ass.

I really may just let Lin walk. I wanted Lowery more if we could have got him. And honestly Jeremy will never be able to play his whole humble pie role again. I think the Rockets and Lin both hurt their word and dignity doing this.

HARDCOREKNICKSFAN wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

MinsHeartsReezy wrote:This changes a lot. It's clear that Dolan's pockets are pretty deep and if it were just the money I doubt management would think twice about matching the contract. But with the other restrictions...it makes sense they would take their time to think it through.

I'm surprised Lin's agreed to the offer...but then again it's a business...so I'm not.
The other possibility is maybe he doesn't want us to match...it's not as though he's been vocal about staying in NY. It's all speculation and we'll just have to see how it plays out.

I like Lin but I hope he realizes that once he signed this contract... he's no longer going to get a pass for essentially being a sophomore player and still learning after only playing 25 meaningful games in his career and ending the year with an injury. At least you can say Amare and Melo are proven talents and have earned the rights to their large contracts. Lin going to have to earn his paycheck and live up to the potential he's getting paid for. He better freakin play up to the 25mil + Lux tax + restrictions that may be put on the team. And Lin will hear it big time from the fans if he doesn't live up to it. LOL...I think it's safe to say he's only seen the sunny side of NY so far.

I hope he does live up to his potential, and I hope he's a Knick when he does it.

On another note if Jorts is still available in 90 days and we have an open spot...are we allowed to sign him?

Completely agree. No more sugar coating his situation. We match and he better bring it. You sign such a contract, you better be ready for the heaven and hell it will provide. Linsanity was everybody's darling because of the great and uplifting story. Not anymore. You should deliver now consistently, Lin.

...and what if we match and he doesn't live up to that exorbitant deal?

He will STILL get paid his guaranteed money, and the Knicks will look like the suckers of the century.

Just because Dolan has bilions should not mean hat everyone can play this team for suckers. Players and other teams won't try to play us like that if the Knicks refuse to tolerate such treatment. Once we get shafted by one team, the whole league will believe that they can pull the same wool over our heads for any deal on any player. It'll be reliving the Isiah Thomas regime all over again.

Also, Lin isn't thinking about how all this will affect his reputation here. That is, of course, unless he doesn't want to be here, which has already been suggested. In that case, whoever doesn't want to be here, why the F*ck would the Knicks (or the fans) want him?

The Knicks give this guy a shot at making a name for himself, and this is how he shows his gratitude. The initial offer sheet was too much, yet tolerable. This sounds like the Rockets AND Lin are trying o push the envelope.

If Lin thinks that the 3rd year+ was "too small" then the Linsanity run has obviously gone to his head and for all I care, we should let him suck on that deal in Houston, while dragging out the drama out raising holy hell about it to Stern.

I wonder if Yao Ming is advising Lin on this? Just curious...

Wow, racist much?