AnubisADL wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:
"Really so trusting his teammate is going to magically make them better shooters."

Yes it will. If he does not have confidence in them, they will not shoot with confidence. There must be a flow to an offense for shooters to knock down their shots and sucks the flow right out of the game.

Suprisingly, Fields was shooting great (check the numbers on that) before Melo got here. Is that just a coincidence? Maybe - but I think not.

Shooting great for half a season makes you a great shooter?

Melo is the reason everyone is shooting bad. I guess you forgot the Knicks record BEFORE Melo got here.

Amare playing like complete trash isnt helping.

This is why the Knicks needed scoring but dudes were penciling Toney Douglas to take Billups place. Thing is Toney cant score or run the point right now. So I guess that is Melo's fault too.

You keep skirting the issue. Yes, the knicks have issues - we can all see that. However, it is obvious that ultra-selfish basketball is not helpful either. You really cannot defend that. Let him make the correct pass(es) when he gets doubled and tripled and let the chips fall where they may. 10-30? Really? C'mon! I was a fan of the trade (though I think they caved and gaved up too much when they did not need to) and I am a Melo fan and think he can be a stud but this is BS and is not basketball.

Dude is he makes the correct passes he is STILL going to get blamed for the losses. That is the plight of a franchise player.

We need to trade for a better backcourt of at least 3rd year players. Shumpert and Fields are ok but we need some proven help at the guard position.

When an entire arena is imploring your "franchise player" to "pass the ball" it is a sign they are NOT buying into the narrow definition of "star player." Stars make the guys around them BETTER - not worse.

Individual stats are for chumps.

It ain't that deep.

arkrud wrote:

MS wrote:Yes, Melo is a big reason players aren't shooting as well. Watch the game last night he stunts everyone offensively. He holds the ball doesn't pass at the right times doesn't set his teammates up.

I will say the coaching was horrendous last night. Where was Billy Walker in the second half. Mike has to figure out how to get Amare shots and understand that Amare can be better utilized when resting Melo and Chandler. Shump, TD, Fields, Balkman, Amare would actually be an effective lineup to space the floor a little bit for him.

But, if you really enjoy watching Melo, you don't enjoy basketball. It's not a one on one contest. His skills and shot making ability is impressive, just not in a team concept

I will say it again - Mike is out of it. He does not care.
It is obvious to anybody with clear vision he is not emotionaly involwed any more.
He knows this ship is going to sink... and packling the bags.

We should really be nice fans and help him pack and carry the luggage to his limo

The Knicks aren't winning because of 3 things and none of them have to do with Melo:

1) The head coach
2) The Point Guard
3) Amare is already breaking down

The way some of you talk, the Golden Age of Knicks basketball was just prior to the Melo trade. Get it into your skulls, the Knicks sucked before the Melo trade and they weren't going anywhere. This pathetic need to constantly criticize the Melo trade stems from a pathological need to overvalue every scrub on the Knicks. The Knicks got the best player in that deal by far. The type of player you build around. Get over it. There isn't another star player that could win with the aforementioned Knicks problems.

Actually, I was suprised at how thin Amar'e looked, and the fact that he sprinted across the court every play, where as this year he seems to jog up and down.

Last years team couldn't play defense, we couldn't rebound- we only won games when we shot well from 3pt land- it was not a championship contender. Felton was a flawed point guard, people started off hostile to him, warmed to him, then turned against him again just before the trade.

If we could have added Tyson Chandler to that team- then great, I'd much rather have that team than the one we do now, but the truth is we couldn't add a centre like him with those salaries- this year we would have had to stumped up for Wilson Chandler, next year we'd of done it for Gallo and Felton- that team was deeply flawed (like this one!)

Honestly, watch some games from last year, we were never as good as people are making out.

smackeddog wrote:Do yourselves a favour and watch a game from last season, because some people memory has become warped with nostalgia! I found a Knicks-Hawks game from before the trade yesterday- the first time Amar'e got the ball, he drove into the opposing players and was charged with an offensive foul. Next time he drove into 3 defenders, and had the ball swiped away. He is the same player, only last year he could make the jumpshot, and Felton made some good passes to him once they'd played together a while.

Actually, I was suprised at how thin Amar'e looked, and the fact that he sprinted across the curt every play, where as this year he seems to jog up and down.

Last years team couldn't play defense, we couldn't rebound- we only won games when we shot well from 3pt land- it was not a championship contender. Felton was a flawed point guard, people started off hostile to him, warmed to him, then turned against him again just before the trade.

If we could have added Tyson Chandler to that team- then great, I'd much rather have that team than the one we do now, but the truth is we couldn't add a centre like him with those salaries- this year we would have had to stumped up for Wilson Chandler, next year we'd of done it for Gallo and Felton- that team was deeply flawed (like this one!)

Honestly, watch some games from last year, we were never as good as people are making out.

That team also had a max salary slot tied to Eddie Curry, and didn't have Shumpert/Harrelson we have now.
So imagine what the eddie curry replacement + the 2 guys above would have added, and you'll get a more reliable picture of the situation.

Don't compare apples and oranges, salaries on the floor vs off the floor (ie: curry) matter too.

islesfan wrote:When are you people going to understand that Carmelo Anthony is not the problem. The Melo Trade had to be made, plain and simple. The NBA is a star league and Melo is a star.

The Knicks aren't winning because of 3 things and none of them have to do with Melo:

1) The head coach
2) The Point Guard
3) Amare is already breaking down

The way some of you talk, the Golden Age of Knicks basketball was just prior to the Melo trade. Get it into your skulls, the Knicks sucked before the Melo trade and they weren't going anywhere. This pathetic need to constantly criticize the Melo trade stems from a pathological need to overvalue every scrub on the Knicks. The Knicks got the best player in that deal by far. The type of player you build around. Get over it. There isn't another star player that could win with the aforementioned Knicks problems.

islesfan wrote:When are you people going to understand that Carmelo Anthony is not the problem. The Melo Trade had to be made, plain and simple. The NBA is a star league and Melo is a star.

The Knicks aren't winning because of 3 things and none of them have to do with Melo:

1) The head coach
2) The Point Guard
3) Amare is already breaking down

The way some of you talk, the Golden Age of Knicks basketball was just prior to the Melo trade. Get it into your skulls, the Knicks sucked before the Melo trade and they weren't going anywhere. This pathetic need to constantly criticize the Melo trade stems from a pathological need to overvalue every scrub on the Knicks. The Knicks got the best player in that deal by far. The type of player you build around. Get over it. There isn't another star player that could win with the aforementioned Knicks problems.

no, we are losing because we are missing depth.
DEPTH and Melo asked the team to bring it, and this is the best game the team has played as a unit thus for.
Melo did make some passes, he did force the Isos, force shots *hit them when they counted*, and he made a couple passes in the end.
Dantoni, runs it through Melo, he has the option of creating the best shot for the team, but he wants this game, and he starting the feel pressure from the fans and media. He wants to win them back and prove that HE IS THE MAN.

He went ISO a lot of the plays, but he did pass some of it out, only to get back the ball with 7 seconds at one time to make a shot.
However, one time, almost everyone touched the ball, where he passed it to Fields and, Fields passed it back for a WIDE 3PT OPEN SHOT.
That was the best look MELO ever got for probably the whole game, he got squared up and popped it.
Fields getting the ball on left baseline at the 3point line, pump faked, and then dunked it in.
And TD, hit that open 3, put us up by 1 in the 2nd OT, and Melo hit a lot of those shots 1v3 or 2.5.
Melo hit many of those shots in the 4th quarter and in all the OTs.
The last basket, to make it to the 1st OT, Iman was WIDE OPEN, at left elbow, while Melo double pumped the free throw shot, with 2-3 defenders, and hit the shot
BUT IT DOESNT MAKE IT A GOOD SHOT.

The offense has to run through him with our lineup now, he is the only one that can handle the ball, and get 3 players on him.
He has to learn to be a team player and stop taking bad shots.
I said this in the before the season started, Freedom is given by Dantoni, the choice and selection is up to the players.
Our team just isn't that good, we need to play as a team, we need our players to get in rhythm, and we need to get good shots.

IF he is going to be a Starbury, his next move is he wont attempt to score at all, and will keep passing the ball, trying to prove a point.
Amare was leading by example, he never got a chance to get back in rhythm, and when he did touch the ball, he earned the step for the team and passed it.
I am not sure when Amare got the ball at the left side free throw distance played the PnR with Fields, if Fields could have passed the ball back to Amare for a open layup. Instead Fields slightly open, slightly contested shot, but he isn't a great passer, and Amare's man was trying to bait the pass.
The defense will always try to play the pass for Amare and Melo on those situations.
I think Fields could have passed it back to Amare, because Amare had the step with the PnR, and Fields had the angle to do it.
But there are plenty of times, Fields, tries to do that, resulting in TO.

Knicksfan wrote:The truth is this: had the team kept Chauncey Billups, the trade and the team wouldn't look this bad. No offense to Tyson, who has been probably our most consistent player and has really helped, but he simply isn't a Point Guard.

Management thought they were doing a great move for Tyson because Douglas had played starting PG before and he could manage doing it again for a while. That just simply failed worse than they expected and since then we haven't found a way to solve it.

It is unfair to judge a trade based on the teams' performances. One team became pretty deep after the trade and are playing a season that favors deep teams. The other is playing a system run by the PG and have no PG to do it and have too many injuries to have any depth. Its not fair game.

Had we kept Billups, it would've looked different. When we get a PG, it will.

Billups has looked good in LA but he looked awful by the end of his run in NY. He was having trouble running the pick and roll, and Billups would often drive to the rim without a plan. He didn't perform well in the playoffs and couldn't finish the series because of an injury. He seems fine now but back then they probably saw an aging, hobbled, PG, on the decline set to receive a big payout and decided that it was time to move. They got another hobbled PG in Davis but a lot cheaper.

raven wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Do yourselves a favour and watch a game from last season, because some people memory has become warped with nostalgia! I found a Knicks-Hawks game from before the trade yesterday- the first time Amar'e got the ball, he drove into the opposing players and was charged with an offensive foul. Next time he drove into 3 defenders, and had the ball swiped away. He is the same player, only last year he could make the jumpshot, and Felton made some good passes to him once they'd played together a while.

Actually, I was suprised at how thin Amar'e looked, and the fact that he sprinted across the curt every play, where as this year he seems to jog up and down.

Last years team couldn't play defense, we couldn't rebound- we only won games when we shot well from 3pt land- it was not a championship contender. Felton was a flawed point guard, people started off hostile to him, warmed to him, then turned against him again just before the trade.

If we could have added Tyson Chandler to that team- then great, I'd much rather have that team than the one we do now, but the truth is we couldn't add a centre like him with those salaries- this year we would have had to stumped up for Wilson Chandler, next year we'd of done it for Gallo and Felton- that team was deeply flawed (like this one!)

Honestly, watch some games from last year, we were never as good as people are making out.

That team also had a max salary slot tied to Eddie Curry, and didn't have Shumpert/Harrelson we have now.
So imagine what the eddie curry replacement + the 2 guys above would have added, and you'll get a more reliable picture of the situation.

Don't compare apples and oranges, salaries on the floor vs off the floor (ie: curry) matter too.

Yep, we could have added Tyson Chandler and resign Wilson Chandler to that core.

Eddy Curry's expiring
Moving Turiaf would have been more than enough to sign Tyson Chandler
IF we moved AR for a pick and exemption, we would also be able to sign Wilson Chandler to a 8-9m.
If not, we could offer him a 1 year deal, bigger than the qualifying offer.
If we kept AR, we could still sign him to the qualifying offer, or give him slightly more, and have his bird rights for next year.
The difference of adding

Iman Shumpert and Tyson Chandler to our Pre Melo core, is 10x better than the team we have now.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, was that our players understood the system, played as team, and had great chemistry.
Of course we went for the big name, and with Dolan, even if we made it to FA, I don't know if we would have targeted Tyson Chandler.
But I am sure Tyson Chandler would pick the Knicks over any team, even without Melo.
I am not sure if Baron Davis would be a Knick though, because he wouldn't be a lock for the starting PG with Felton here.
I also don't know if we would be able to resign Shawne Williams.
But I am pretty sure we would at least have Wilson CHandler or Shawne Williams, if not both.

Felton
Fields/Iman/Wilson Chandler
Gallo
Amare
Tyson Chandler

TD
Iman
Wilson Chandler
Jorts/JJ
MozGoV

Shawne WIlliams?
Baron Davis?

RonRon wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Do yourselves a favour and watch a game from last season, because some peoples memory has become warped with nostalgia! I found a Knicks-Hawks game from before the trade yesterday- the first time Amar'e got the ball, he drove into the opposing players and was charged with an offensive foul. Next time he drove into 3 defenders, and had the ball swiped away. He is the same player, only last year he could make the jumpshot, and Felton made some good passes to him once they'd played together a while.

Actually, I was suprised at how thin Amar'e looked, and the fact that he sprinted across the court every play, where as this year he seems to jog up and down.

Last years team couldn't play defense, we couldn't rebound- we only won games when we shot well from 3pt land- it was not a championship contender. Felton was a flawed point guard, people started off hostile to him, warmed to him, then turned against him again just before the trade.

If we could have added Tyson Chandler to that team- then great, I'd much rather have that team than the one we do now, but the truth is we couldn't add a centre like him with those salaries- this year we would have had to stumped up for Wilson Chandler, next year we'd of done it for Gallo and Felton- that team was deeply flawed (like this one!)

Honestly, watch some games from last year, we were never as good as people are making out.

You are also looking at the games in which our players were affected by the trade rumors.
All of the players that we traded in the deal, aside from Curry, wanted to be in New York.
They finally changed the culture, from the Curry/Marbury days, and broke out of that funk of losing that Wizards have, and Clippers/Wolves once had.
It is very rare, to have young players that were not stat whores, setting aside EGOs, trying to produce for the team, and not for themselves, for a better contract. That is why Gallo was picked and Jennings was not even scouted. After going through Marbury era, Walsh didn't want to draft a players that
Jennings portrayed himself to be before the draft. Him talking smack about Rubio and he has a big EGO, that Walsh didn't want to chance at.
Walsh picks players with the "right mentality and work ethic" over skill and talent.

We did go in scoring droughts last year but we also did average over 100pts a game.
Adding Iman, Jorts, and Tyson CHandler, provides us with the scoring and defense, to take us a greater level.
Our roles, chemistry, improvement in our yoots, same core of players, and young legs would be in our advantage with this schedule.

How's the weather in your alternate reality? Out here it's snowing.