Fuck it, put him in the HOF!

His input is welcome and needed and shows due to injury and star concentration the lack of our depth.

crzymdups wrote:rubio doubters can check out rubio doing a nice job vs chicago tonight. minnesota down 5pts after 3qtrs. rubio has 11pts 11assists 4reb 3stl thru 3.

I don't think anyone really doubts Rubio. He's a talented player and he's been great so far. I just don't agree that he's got the ROY all sowed up already. There's a lot of season left to go. He has certain strengths which are evident in his stats. I think the other top Rooks have their own strengths and so it will be a very interesting debate as the year goes along.

alexs wrote:Just saw highlights of Minn against bulls, Rubio looks special, don't think Schump is there yet

See that's just the thing about Rubio and Shump. A lot of what Shump does is intangible. When you're shutting down penetration, there's no stat for that! When you're talking up the defense and raising the pressure you put on the other teams offense, there's really not a stat for that.

Assists are a highly visible skill that gets a lot of attention, because it's a positive stat, rather than a play on D where you shut off penetration and get your hand up and force a guy to take a bad shot or pass up the ball. That gets overlooked cuz there's no highlight for that. Also Shump doesn't always get the direct pass that leads to an assist, but he keeps the ball moving in a purposeful way.

I continue to say that it's going to be an interesting year to watch and see how this ROY thing develops. I don't think we've seen the best of Shump yet. He's not even 100% back from his injury yet. I'll say this that Shump at the top of our defense has a very important impact on how we play and it's noticeable. Shumps strength is shutting teams down, verses Rubio's which is helping his team score, tho Rubio is a thief.

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

alexs wrote:Just saw highlights of Minn against bulls, Rubio looks special, don't think Schump is there yet

See that's just the thing about Rubio and Shump. A lot of what Shump does is intangible. When you're shutting down penetration, there's no stat for that! When you're talking up the defense and raising the pressure you put on the other teams offense, there's really not a stat for that.

Assists are a highly visible skill that gets a lot of attention, because it's a positive stat, rather than a play on D where you shut off penetration and get your hand up and force a guy to take a bad shot or pass up the ball. That gets overlooked cuz there's no highlight for that. Also Shump doesn't always get the direct pass that leads to an assist, but he keeps the ball moving in a purposeful way.

I continue to say that it's going to be an interesting year to watch and see how this ROY thing develops. I don't think we've seen the best of Shump yet. He's not even 100% back from his injury yet. I'll say this that Shump at the top of our defense has a very important impact on how we play and it's noticeable. Shumps strength is shutting teams down, verses Rubio's which is helping his team score, tho Rubio is a thief.

Rubio is also not a bad defender. Minnesota is one of the higher rated defensive clubs.

Also, the idea that Rubio doesn't do intangible things as well as his tangible contributions seems flawed. Tonight he either scored or assisted on 20 of Minnesota's 23 points in the third quarter. That was very tangible.

I never said Rubio didn't have intangibles. You're putting words in my mouth. I said that his assists are highly visible stats and that's his strength. I don't know about Rubio's defense. I know that he gets steals, but i've never heard much about his Man D and can't say that i've seen him really shut anyone down. My guess is that Rubio is not the defender that Shump is.

I've kept most of my remarks on this subject about Shump and what he's doing. I really haven't gone in depth about Rubio's game except for his stats. I will say that Shump isn't called upon to be a ball dominant guard. Often times he's giving the ball to Melo to be the ball distributor or playmaker. It's just a different style of play, doesn't make what Shump does any less impactful.

crzymdups wrote:Shump will have a huge challenge with both Jrue Holiday and Louis Williams of Philly tomorrow. Be interesting to see how he does.

nixluva wrote:... My guess is that Rubio is not the defender that Shump is.

But on the other hand, who is?

I hope I am not to big of a fanboy if I say that, even at this early stage of Imans career, I can only remember a handful of wing-players in this league who are as good defensivly as Shump.

I watch the NBA since the end 90th and remember Bruce Bowen and Ron Artest in their prime. Lately there is Tony Allen. But thats about it. Gary Payton is long ago, as is Jordan, Pippen and Stockton.

His D is that good, but what strikes me even more, is that he is looking that confident at O. He is always under control, rarely takes a bad shot and keeps the machine running.

No matter if ROY or not, he will be the steal of this draft!

http://www.nba.com/rookie-ladder/?cid=nba_12_twitter_L

Shump makes the NBA rookie ladder. He's third behind Rubio and Kyrie.

1 Kyrie Irving : Cleveland CavaliersIrving continues to play well and seems to improve with each game. Tuesday night in Utah was no exception. Despite the Cavs' loss, Irving stood out as he showed off an array of moves and finished with 20 points two nights after scoring 21 in Portland two nights earlier. At every stop, he leaves opponents praising his early progress. "He's a good player," Utah's Paul Millsap said after the Jazz's 113-105 win. "He got into the lane and made some plays. He scored, and he made some very good moves to the basket. He's going to be a pretty good player." Going to be? He's already there, Paul.-- Jan. 11

2 Ricky Rubio : Minnesota TimberwolvesThe Wolves' rookie continues to blow me away with his smooth transition to the NBA. The Spanish point guard does it all -- smooth passes, surprisingly accurate jumper, ability to hit the floater -- and has already separated himself as the Wolves' second-best player. He's scored in double-digits in five straight games and easily leads all rookies in assists (7.9 per game) and double-doubles (four). In fact, he's seventh in the league in assists and tied for 15th in double-doubles. After his 13-point, 12-assist, four-steal performance in the Wolves' 111-100 loss to the Bulls, MVP Derrick Rose left impressed. "Rubio played a hell of a game," he said.
-- Jan. 11

3 Iman Shumpert : New York KnicksShumpert returns to The Ladder in a big way, climbing all the way up to No. 3 and looking like a legitimate contender for Rookie of the Year honors. It's still a long shot, especially since Irving and Rubio have won over the media, but check out the numbers: If he qualified, Shumpert would be third in scoring (13.2), fourth in assists (3.6), second in steals (2.2) and first in free throw percentage (90.9).
-- Jan. 11

caveat: i believe Landry Fields was third on the rookie ladder for most of last season.

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
A distant third, sure, but Rubio THIRD among West guards in All-Star voting? First rook since immortal J-Kidd whose PASSES were must-see TV
41 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

(note to nixluva: this isn't a slam of iman, merely marveling at the rubio phenomenon.)