nixluva wrote:I find all these posters against the players to be disingenuous. You know that you wouldn't happily accept major reductions in your cut of a business time after time if it was you the patrons paid to see! You'd be lying if you said it would be fine for your cut to be reduced by 10%, your individual max contract capped and years limited even more. So far no owner has suffered a loss when getting out of the business. All turn a huge profit and most teams sell above their appraised value.

Yes, I would agree that I'd be lying as long as I could continue to lie to myself that the game is all about me, and that I should be able to make whatever I want, whenever I want as long as I'm a talented individual who people want to see. I could agree that I'd be lying to myself about the fact that the owners own the team that I play on, but sheehit, who needs a team?? I'm ME!!!! People want to see ME!!! They'd pay thousands of dollars a year to sit in open gyms and outdoor courts just to see ME!!! Who needs an arena?? Who needs refs?? Who needs TV?? Who needs concession stands?? THE GAME IS ALL ABOUT ME!!

And if any owner ever makes money on an investment, I should be able to make just as much, or at least some "fair" cut of that, because after all, this is all about ME!!!

For the eighteen billionth time, the patrons can't see YOU if you're not in THE OWNER's arena, on the platform THEY provide for YOU, the paid player.

And I find it a bit disingenous of player-rep posters who try to explain away the excesses of the current players, while also explaining away overpaying for mediocre talent, and then site how most players are barely scratching out an existence for the few years they are in the league. I find pro-player posters who try valiantly to defend a microscopically small group of individuals who have the opportunity to make hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, in a relatively small amount of time, as if they are a harassed group of migrant farm workers.

All because the people who provide the platform are rich businessmen.

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

nixluva wrote:Let's step back a second. The problem is completely OWNER related. They have been the ones paying too much for mediocre talent. I'd point out that top players used to make MUCH more money in the previous CBA. Now the top players money has come down and the middle class players are making more. The Owners still do dumb things like pay Joe Johnson way too much. No matter what system you impose the dumb owners will make mistakes, which is all these changes over the years have been about. They're trying to make a foolproof system... for the owners!!!

The poor poor players operating in a "rigged system" that pays mediocre talent and no talent (ECurry) too much. Those stupid OWNERS!!! How dare they overpay for PLAYERS!!! Didn't they know that PLAYERS would just love to give back money if they
1) underperform
2) are injured and don't perform
3) just don't perform at all

Those poor PLAYERS, mental giants that they are, who are only playing in those arenas in that stupid, mismanaged NBA because otherwise they'd all be captains of industry or Prime Ministers of their own countries! Why, if it wasn't for these stupid OWNERS and all their stupid MONEY, I bet these PLAYERS would be running and organizing their own league, just like they did back in the 1920's and '30's in other sports, purely out of love for the game! Why, in no time at all, without all this NBA MISMANAGEMENT, and OWNER FINANCIAL STUPIDITY, simply brilliant people like LeHoe and Wade would be building the league of leagues! Why I'm sure Nike and Adidas and Coca Cola would just be lining up to pay PLAYERS huge sums of money when they end up playing in open college gyms and playgrounds with live streams to YouTube! (That of course, somebody else would have to open for them and ref for them and keep score for them and run the cam for them and...)

LOL.. exactly.. but wait.. this is just a hobby for these owners.. I mean they should feel fine with losing millions, because the players feel they deserve to take most of the revenue.. who needs the owners and their league.. I am sure the guys playing for "And 1" is making a killing.. smh

If you have such disdain for the players why do you even watch the games? The players are the league and just cuz you two are jealous that they get paid well doesn't change that. It's already been PROVEN that the players would get paid more in a free market. Perhaps you two missed the huge contracts that OWNERS paid to the top players in this league in the past!

KG once made 28 mil, Shaq 29 mil and Jordan 33 mil. Salaries would no doubt be even higher now if they didn't put a cap on the max contract a player could sign. The players agreed to this so it's not like they haven't given the owners help in managing their own money. Just look at what the players agreed to in terms of give backs to the owners in last CBA:

A. Length of Contracts

The maximum length of a player contract has been decreased from 7 years for Bird players and 6 years for other players to 6 years for Bird players and 5 years for other players.

B. Annual Increases and Decreases

The permissible year-to-year increases in multi-year player contracts are as follows:
# Bird and Early Bird Contracts may increase by up to 10.5% of year-one salary (down from 12.5%).
# Other contracts may increase by up to 8% of year-one salary (down from 10%).

D. Maximum Player Salaries

As under the prior CBA, in the first year of a new contract a player may receive the greater of 105% of the player’s prior salary, or:
# 0-6 years of service: 25% of Salary Cap ($12 million this year).
# 7-9 years of service: 30% of Salary Cap ($14.4 million this year).
# 10 or more years of service: 35% of Salary Cap ($16.8 million this year).
# The maximum player salaries will continue to be based on a 48.04% of BRI Salary Cap (not on the new, higher Salary Cap).
http://Read more: http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-collective-bargaining-agreement.shtml#ixzz1ZwzubZSO

So the players are yet again willing to give more money back to the owners. In what way have the players been wrong in regard to the leagues finances over the years. They're the ones who have conceded to give up what they already had.

I watch the game because I enjoy the game of basketball.. really I could care less about 90% of the bafoons that play in the NBA.... this current group of NBA punks can just rot... there are a select few I really care about watching...

TKF who pissed in your oatmeal??? What's with all the anger towards the players? In my post I listed the many concessions the players made in the last CBA and I could go back to the 1999 CBA too, but that's overkill. Now they're also giving ground again in this CBA negotiation. So how can you bash the players when over and over again they've been the ones to give money back to the owners? What are your grounds for having this attitude towards the one side of this business that has repeatedly given up more and more of the revenues in this business?

The players are not giving up anything... when the CBA is done, then a new one is negotiated... They benefited from a lopsided CBA and now it is time to make a change.. Honestly, I don't like 90% of these clowns.. guys like lebron, wade, melo, just really boil my blood. these guys have a sense of entitlement that is beyond ridiculous.... to hear them say, we deserve this and deserve that is disgusting.. listening to them act as if they are being asked to work in a sweat shop for 3 bucks an hour is offensive... they are the highest paid players on average of all sports, and the guys who pay them, are saying, the means by which we pay you is in jeapordy if we don't make changes.. and what do these guys come back with? they basically respond in so many words, "who cares.. pay me!!"

Tickets to Saturday’s event at FIU featuring a host of NBA stars were snapped up in less than two hours.

How much does South Florida miss pro basketball?

Tickets for Saturday’s charity all-star game dubbed the “LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh present the South Florida All-Star Classic” at U.S. Century Bank Arena on FIU’s campus sold out quickly. The tickets went on sale at noon Monday and sold out in less than two hours.

People lined up early and formed lines at the fieldhouse adjacent to FIU Stadium and at four other ticket windows. The main vending area began selling tickets 20 minutes before noon. By 1:47 p.m. all the tickets were sold.

The exact amount of ticket sales was not announced Monday, but according to FIU, the arena is currently configured to hold approximately 4,000, due to some construction projects.

The game is scheduled for 7 p.m. and will feature the Heat’s “Big 3” as well as other NBA stars. Those will include New York’s Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, New Orleans’ Chris Paul and Oklahoma City’s Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook.

This was Florida, not exactly the mecca of BB! Please stop embarrassing yourselves with the crap you're spewing. You have NO IDEA about what the hell you're talking about! Let me repeat the fans watched the players before they got to the NBA and fell in love with their game. Before there was an NBA fans watched players play and liked it. The NBA came about after the fans already fell in love with the game. There were games before there was an NBA and if a different group got together to form a new league with the Star players we have now they'd be able to make money. This isn't to say that the level the NBA is at isn't the APEX of BB, cuz it is, but don't think that it couldn't be replaced with a new league.

All of that stuff is besides the point. The real issue is that the owners want things made easier for them. They have failed to handle their own finances properly. IF there were no small market teams doing well they might have a real argument, but there are small market teams doing well, cuz they handled their business the right way.

Nalod wrote:If Less teams, less revenue, less union jobs.

Good job!

You don't get the point. The point isn't that you could just magically produce a league as sophisticated as the NBA overnight, but it's not irreplaceable. Also the owners didn't build this league by themselves. I seem to remember a huge increase in popularity by a couple of guys named Bird and Magic! You see no matter how much crap you spew, you can't get away from the fact that fans followed those players amateur careers, fell in love with their games and brought that fandom to the NBA increasing the leagues standing and profits. It's always been about the players and always will be. So go ahead make another dumb ass comment.

Nalod wrote:At least your not spewing unicorns and pixie dust!

Leborn in highschool, as with Kobe was not a big deal. Dirk? Dwight Howard?

Other one and done players are not that big in amateur sports.

but Don't forgets Bird and Magic played in the league. The logo league.

Dr. J? UMass! Jordan was not jordan until Jax came along.

The fund raiser games the super friends are doing is a nice event with about 5,000.

Its not the NBA and I doubt would more than a novelty act.

Nobody disputes the fact its the players that are the talent, but you have to have a stage and the financial base.

I'm not sure I understand your point about Lebron in High School. Are you saying he was a phenom or not? Clearly average fans knew who he was and were anticipating him becoming a pro. No one was going to Cavs games and all of a sudden they're making tons of money in and around the stadium. No stars, no crowds and NBA stadiums are empty. Then what do the Owners have. Even if it's less money the players could find a way to put together games or tournaments that fans would go see.

Coming out of College Bird and Magic saved the NBA. Great players would almost always eventually develop in time. Guys like Jordan would become known to fans if they had tournaments like they used to do before the NBA came into existence. Which is my point. The Sneaker and apparel and sports drink and supplement companies could easily sponsor games if the players broke away from the NBA.

The Isiah Charity game would've sold more tickets if the stadium was bigger, so I don't get your point here. Even in my small town we have a 12,000 seat arena. There are tons of stadiums around the country that would be profitable selling games with NBA stars playing. The original BB Pros used to barnstorm around the country and they didn't have the media outlets that are available today in order to advertise, nor the Sponsors that could support such a tour or tournament series. People in Macon and Warner Robins Georgia, where I live would go CRAZY to have NBA Stars come to this area and play. The players could most definitely make tons of money.

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:At least your not spewing unicorns and pixie dust!

Leborn in highschool, as with Kobe was not a big deal. Dirk? Dwight Howard?

Other one and done players are not that big in amateur sports.

but Don't forgets Bird and Magic played in the league. The logo league.

Dr. J? UMass! Jordan was not jordan until Jax came along.

The fund raiser games the super friends are doing is a nice event with about 5,000.

Its not the NBA and I doubt would more than a novelty act.

Nobody disputes the fact its the players that are the talent, but you have to have a stage and the financial base.

I'm not sure I understand your point about Lebron in High School. Are you saying he was a phenom or not? Clearly average fans knew who he was and were anticipating him becoming a pro. No one was going to Cavs games and all of a sudden they're making tons of money in and around the stadium. No stars, no crowds and NBA stadiums are empty. Then what do the Owners have. Even if it's less money the players could find a way to put together games or tournaments that fans would go see.

Coming out of College Bird and Magic saved the NBA. Great players would almost always eventually develop in time. Guys like Jordan would become known to fans if they had tournaments like they used to do before the NBA came into existence. Which is my point. The Sneaker and apparel and sports drink and supplement companies could easily sponsor games if the players broke away from the NBA.

The Isiah Charity game would've sold more tickets if the stadium was bigger, so I don't get your point here. Even in my small town we have a 12,000 seat arena. There are tons of stadiums around the country that would be profitable selling games with NBA stars playing. The original BB Pros used to barnstorm around the country and they didn't have the media outlets that are available today in order to advertise, nor the Sponsors that could support such a tour or tournament series. People in Macon and Warner Robins Georgia, where I live would go CRAZY to have NBA Stars come to this area and play. The players could most definitely make tons of money.

Your point is, you can't read.

Coming out of college, why did Bird and Magic bother to save the NBA? Why didn't they just organize their own league? Why? Because they're PLAYERS, not BUSINESSMEN. They did not find a way to put together meaningful games or tournaments, as you say, because Players don't do things like that. They never have. Players organize or participate in charity events or do barnstorming like the Globetrotters did and still do. And barnstorming, if you'll notice, is not a thriving business model here in the 21st century.

If you'd bother to really look up the history of the game, you'd see that it was about barnstorming and then leagues were formed WITH AND BY BUSINESSMEN, NOT PLAYERS. PLAYERS, by golly, played the game. The ABL, the NBDL, does any of this ring any bells with you, nixluva? When those leagues collapsed, what did the PLAYERS do? Did they go and form their own leagues? NO, they went and played in another league created and run by businessmen. The ABA, the NBA.

Once again, nixluva, if there is such a tremendous demand, nationwide, for star players to play basketball, WHY AREN'T WE SEEING IT HAPPEN? Why are they going to China, Turkey, Israel? Because they're are leagues there, that's why. Your dreampuff players who could make money hand over foot in your world apparently haven't been tuned in to your magical business model.

This is like talking to a Jehovah's Witness who's on crack. The dumbass sheehit you spew nixluva is almost beyond belief. Great. You win. Go back to sleep now staring at your MJ Poster and your Lebron Cornflakes Box.

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:At least your not spewing unicorns and pixie dust!

Leborn in highschool, as with Kobe was not a big deal. Dirk? Dwight Howard?

Other one and done players are not that big in amateur sports.

but Don't forgets Bird and Magic played in the league. The logo league.

Dr. J? UMass! Jordan was not jordan until Jax came along.

The fund raiser games the super friends are doing is a nice event with about 5,000.

Its not the NBA and I doubt would more than a novelty act.

Nobody disputes the fact its the players that are the talent, but you have to have a stage and the financial base.

I'm not sure I understand your point about Lebron in High School. Are you saying he was a phenom or not? Clearly average fans knew who he was and were anticipating him becoming a pro. No one was going to Cavs games and all of a sudden they're making tons of money in and around the stadium. No stars, no crowds and NBA stadiums are empty. Then what do the Owners have. Even if it's less money the players could find a way to put together games or tournaments that fans would go see.

Coming out of College Bird and Magic saved the NBA. Great players would almost always eventually develop in time. Guys like Jordan would become known to fans if they had tournaments like they used to do before the NBA came into existence. Which is my point. The Sneaker and apparel and sports drink and supplement companies could easily sponsor games if the players broke away from the NBA.

The Isiah Charity game would've sold more tickets if the stadium was bigger, so I don't get your point here. Even in my small town we have a 12,000 seat arena. There are tons of stadiums around the country that would be profitable selling games with NBA stars playing. The original BB Pros used to barnstorm around the country and they didn't have the media outlets that are available today in order to advertise, nor the Sponsors that could support such a tour or tournament series. People in Macon and Warner Robins Georgia, where I live would go CRAZY to have NBA Stars come to this area and play. The players could most definitely make tons of money.

Dude I live in a small town in georgia.. the HS charity game sold over a thousand tickets, to a point where they had to cancel it and reschedule so they can go play at a bigger Gym.. one of the local colleges... Try doing that for 40-50 games and see if you get the same support.....

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:At least your not spewing unicorns and pixie dust!

Leborn in highschool, as with Kobe was not a big deal. Dirk? Dwight Howard?

Other one and done players are not that big in amateur sports.

but Don't forgets Bird and Magic played in the league. The logo league.

Dr. J? UMass! Jordan was not jordan until Jax came along.

The fund raiser games the super friends are doing is a nice event with about 5,000.

Its not the NBA and I doubt would more than a novelty act.

Nobody disputes the fact its the players that are the talent, but you have to have a stage and the financial base.

I'm not sure I understand your point about Lebron in High School. Are you saying he was a phenom or not? Clearly average fans knew who he was and were anticipating him becoming a pro. No one was going to Cavs games and all of a sudden they're making tons of money in and around the stadium. No stars, no crowds and NBA stadiums are empty. Then what do the Owners have. Even if it's less money the players could find a way to put together games or tournaments that fans would go see.

Coming out of College Bird and Magic saved the NBA. Great players would almost always eventually develop in time. Guys like Jordan would become known to fans if they had tournaments like they used to do before the NBA came into existence. Which is my point. The Sneaker and apparel and sports drink and supplement companies could easily sponsor games if the players broke away from the NBA.

The Isiah Charity game would've sold more tickets if the stadium was bigger, so I don't get your point here. Even in my small town we have a 12,000 seat arena. There are tons of stadiums around the country that would be profitable selling games with NBA stars playing. The original BB Pros used to barnstorm around the country and they didn't have the media outlets that are available today in order to advertise, nor the Sponsors that could support such a tour or tournament series. People in Macon and Warner Robins Georgia, where I live would go CRAZY to have NBA Stars come to this area and play. The players could most definitely make tons of money.

Dude I live in a small town in georgia.. the HS charity game sold over a thousand tickets, to a point where they had to cancel it and reschedule so they can go play at a bigger Gym.. one of the local colleges... Try doing that for 40-50 games and see if you get the same support.....

That's a terrible example. Why are you suggesting a small town? Obviously most small towns lack the facilities to handle a major event. That's just silly. There are small cities and college towns however that have good enough facilities to host a big game. Where are you at, cuz i'm in Middle Georgia and this area is spread out but there are a lot of people in the neighboring cities that come into the area when an entertainer is in town.

The Macon Centreplex can hold about 10,000 and is more the type of facility i'm talking about.