NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

crzymdups wrote:The most important thing Donnie Walsh did was change the culture and perception of the New York Knicks. This was an organization that had no class, got into countless embarassing lawsuits at every level, didn't honor their past players in any way, and was the laughing stock of the league.

Walsh changed it to a respectable organization, started the History Night thing where they connect to and honor past players, and most importantly made people take notice of the Knicks from the product they put on the floor. They were all over ESPN this year for positive reasons. They had a winning record. They were respectable. Finally.

For Dolan, or anyone else, not to recognize that is plain silly. Quibbling about a transaction here or there, but ignoring the enormous work he did rehabilitating the entire image of the team, is missing the point.

So what happened his first 2 years here? Revisionist history at it's finest.

Kindly explain how you were suppose to fix the mess Popcorn man made faster than what Donnie did.

Sit on his hands...We might have a few more draft picks..

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

crzymdups wrote:The most important thing Donnie Walsh did was change the culture and perception of the New York Knicks. This was an organization that had no class, got into countless embarassing lawsuits at every level, didn't honor their past players in any way, and was the laughing stock of the league.

Walsh changed it to a respectable organization, started the History Night thing where they connect to and honor past players, and most importantly made people take notice of the Knicks from the product they put on the floor. They were all over ESPN this year for positive reasons. They had a winning record. They were respectable. Finally.

For Dolan, or anyone else, not to recognize that is plain silly. Quibbling about a transaction here or there, but ignoring the enormous work he did rehabilitating the entire image of the team, is missing the point.

So what happened his first 2 years here? Revisionist history at it's finest.

Kindly explain how you were suppose to fix the mess Popcorn man made faster than what Donnie did.

I dont have an issue with the moves he made because I understand why he did them. As I said his moves werent that great or amazing. Walsh made a bunch of lateral moves to get Lebron in 2010 and ended up with Amare. Now we can all pretend like 2010 was about free agents but we all know we didnt tank 2 years for Amare Stoudemire or Chris Bosh.

Juice wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Juice wrote:Another example...

The Bulls traded Kirk Hinrich and #17 to Washington essentially to free up cap space for 2010. Don't get me wrong Kirk is a better player than Effries but he had more salary on the books and pick 17 is not more valuable than pick 8.

That's what Donnie should have done if he was willing to push those kinds of chips to the table....might as well wait and be slow hand until the draft when you have more willing buyers.

You dont get it.

All Walsh's bad deals are Dolan's fault. Dolan forced the Jefferies trade. Dolan forced Walsh to draft Jordan Hill. Dolan forced Walsh to overpay on Melo. ETC.

I could have listed another example but I figure 2 should be enough for reality to sink in.

Slight correction of approach to the example mentioned

Obviously he could have traded Effries and pick 8 in the 2009 draft but not that this would show more slow handedness versus trading Effries and the 2011 1rst lottery protected or 2012 Top 5 protected during the 2010 draft. Bottomline the philosophy is to trade Effries and pick or even recently picked player(Hill) during the 2009 or 2010 draft.

martin wrote:Knicks ended up with Felton, Amare, Lee trade, Moz. Quickly turned that into Amare, Melo, Billups.

You keep speaking about Revisionist history and never really put out what actually happened. Donnie did lay out his plan: it was to be in the free agent market with LeBron being top billing; sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't.

We got Melo and Billups summer 2010?

If Walsh's plan was to add 1 max and then trade for Melo we wouldn't have made the McGrady trade. Walsh wanted 2 max players and got 1.

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:Knicks ended up with Felton, Amare, Lee trade, Moz. Quickly turned that into Amare, Melo, Billups.

You keep speaking about Revisionist history and never really put out what actually happened. Donnie did lay out his plan: it was to be in the free agent market with LeBron being top billing; sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't.

We got Melo and Billups summer 2010?

If Walsh's plan was to add 1 max and then trade for Melo we wouldn't have made the McGrady trade. Walsh wanted 2 max players and got 1.

Yeah Melo was never in the picture until he made it known he wanted out. Walsh clearly stated we were going after 2 Max players in the summer and that's why he made the T-mac trade. I guess thank Melo he wanted us and yet we paid a heavy price again to get him(a price Walsh after making the one he did to get Lebron and another Max) was totally hesitant on making, which required Dolan shot calling to make it happen. Remember Melo said he thought he was headed to New Jersey?

Walsh got Amar'e

Dolan got Melo

Let's get this straight

Childs2Dudley wrote:

Juice wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Juice wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Juice wrote:Another example...

The Bulls traded Kirk Hinrich and #17 to Washington essentially to free up cap space for 2010. Don't get me wrong Kirk is a better player than Effries but he had more salary on the books and pick 17 is not more valuable than pick 8.

That's what Donnie should have done if he was willing to push those kinds of chips to the table....might as well wait and be slow hand until the draft when you have more willing buyers.

You dont get it.

All Walsh's bad deals are Dolan's fault. Dolan forced the Jefferies trade. Dolan forced Walsh to draft Jordan Hill. Dolan forced Walsh to overpay on Melo. ETC.

I could have listed another example but I figure 2 should be enough for reality to sink in.

Slight correction of approach to the example mentioned

Obviously he could have traded Effries and pick 8 in the 2009 draft but not that this would show more slow handedness versus trading Effries and the 2011 1rst lottery protected or 2012 Top 5 protected during the 2010 draft. Bottomline the philosophy is to trade Effries and pick or even recently picked player(Hill) during the 2009 or 2010 draft.

He gave up way too much in the McGrady trade. He made his intentions clear and was taken to the cleaners by Morey. That was a horrible trade and it will be a topic again next June when the Rockets have the Knicks pick. It might have helped if Hill had been given some minutes over some Bender and Jeffries etc. to raise his value on last years 29 win team. When you evaluate Walsh/D'Antoni this is definitely one of their low points.

What has me puzzled from the extremely poor rebuttals past page or two from GKF/Bunson2Spencer and likes from the homer crowd...is like you said the very Pres/GM they're defending stated if he could do the McrGady trade over, he would. And he made these statements after other moves transpired across the league

It's always the excuse what was done was essentially the only option to be exercised no matter if it was trading Zach and Jamal to get cap space, passing on buying picks, not drafting a point guard, not drafting a real big etc etc

No matter what, what Walsh did was the only way, although we have proof before and after of what could have taken place

Remember the Zach Randolph Wojo rumor debacle that took place before we traded Zach surrounding Denver/Clips Camby then morphing into the Grizzlies rumors who ended up with him anyway?

That's funny. extremely poor rebuttals is what you call it. I call it a fact that you run away from. Just like you do EVERY SINGLE TIME you are confronted with something. You run away and try to switch subjects or avoid the discussion after it doesn't go your way. Your schtick is tired and old.

There was nothing wrong with trading Randolph and Crawford.He got back what they were worth - little to nothing. Crawford was traded the following year for the corpse of Speedy Claxton and Acie Law. Randolph was traded the following year for Quentin Richardson. These guys were worthless and in my opinion still are. I wouldn't any of them on my team now or then.

Passing on buying picks? He bought two actually - Toney Douglas and Jerome Jordan. A team doesn't buy picks every draft and there aren't teams selling their picks every draft. Remind me how many teams traded their picks for cash in the drafts Walsh was in. Now tell me how did you expect Walsh to get in on every deal? There is more stuff that goes on behind the scenes that you know nothing of yet act like you do. Nobody knows what was done, what those teams were thinking and what the reasoning was for the Knicks not purchasing picks from the few teams that did sell them.

He didn't draft a point guard, he signed one. Brandon Jennings is not a PG. I remember hearing he really like Jrue Holiday but he was very raw. He thought Jordan Hill was more NBA ready. He was wrong.

"Not drafting a real big"...some of these complaints are just typical you. You complain just to complain. We draft a big. He was Jordan Hill. He got traded. We signed Amar'e and Timofey Mozgov. We didn't have a pick in the 1st round in 2010 to choose anyone but we did pick Jordan in the 2nd round. Landry Fields was drafted with the 2nd rounder acquired in the original Balkman trade.

The Knicks tried to trade Randolph in the summer when Walsh was hired and all they were offered was a 2nd round pick by Memphis. They refused and instead traded him during the season for players they thought could help them a bit during the season. After all, his plan was to remain competitive for those two years. That didn't work out too well but the reasoning of taking Tim Thomas over a 2nd round pick is there. Randolph was then traded for Q-Rich, who became Craig Smith. Some catch that Randolph was, huh? His original team traded him for Channing Frye. Give me a break already.

If he could do the McGrady trade over, he would. Only because he gave up one too many picks. He shouldn't have traded the 2012 pick. He got desperate. It was an error. But this error should not even be close to as costly as to any draft pick trades Isiah made. We'll make out fine in the end.

Time for you to quit trying to find something to complain about and make posts that make sense. None of this sensationalism that is only posted to drum up arguments.

Once again slow as usual. Of course I'm referring to when there is issue to be taken in the current state of affairs not what he tried to rectify after the fact.

Like when Walsh was being questioned in 08' for not buying picks there were excuses(roster spots blah blah) debunked with the signings of Duhon and Chuckerson

Like when Walsh claimed the asking prices for Randolph was too high only after passing on a couple opportunities to trade him.... although the landscape of trading him proved different afterwards

Like when he made the T-Mac trade was being discussed a select few of us stated do not include Hill or a pick but excuses were made that it had to be done

Are you ever going to GET IT?

Juice wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

Juice wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Juice wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Juice wrote:Another example...

The Bulls traded Kirk Hinrich and #17 to Washington essentially to free up cap space for 2010. Don't get me wrong Kirk is a better player than Effries but he had more salary on the books and pick 17 is not more valuable than pick 8.

That's what Donnie should have done if he was willing to push those kinds of chips to the table....might as well wait and be slow hand until the draft when you have more willing buyers.

You dont get it.

All Walsh's bad deals are Dolan's fault. Dolan forced the Jefferies trade. Dolan forced Walsh to draft Jordan Hill. Dolan forced Walsh to overpay on Melo. ETC.

I could have listed another example but I figure 2 should be enough for reality to sink in.

Slight correction of approach to the example mentioned

Obviously he could have traded Effries and pick 8 in the 2009 draft but not that this would show more slow handedness versus trading Effries and the 2011 1rst lottery protected or 2012 Top 5 protected during the 2010 draft. Bottomline the philosophy is to trade Effries and pick or even recently picked player(Hill) during the 2009 or 2010 draft.

He gave up way too much in the McGrady trade. He made his intentions clear and was taken to the cleaners by Morey. That was a horrible trade and it will be a topic again next June when the Rockets have the Knicks pick. It might have helped if Hill had been given some minutes over some Bender and Jeffries etc. to raise his value on last years 29 win team. When you evaluate Walsh/D'Antoni this is definitely one of their low points.

What has me puzzled from the extremely poor rebuttals past page or two from GKF/Bunson2Spencer and likes from the homer crowd...is like you said the very Pres/GM they're defending stated if he could do the McrGady trade over, he would. And he made these statements after other moves transpired across the league

It's always the excuse what was done was essentially the only option to be exercised no matter if it was trading Zach and Jamal to get cap space, passing on buying picks, not drafting a point guard, not drafting a real big etc etc

No matter what, what Walsh did was the only way, although we have proof before and after of what could have taken place

Remember the Zach Randolph Wojo rumor debacle that took place before we traded Zach surrounding Denver/Clips Camby then morphing into the Grizzlies rumors who ended up with him anyway?

That's funny. extremely poor rebuttals is what you call it. I call it a fact that you run away from. Just like you do EVERY SINGLE TIME you are confronted with something. You run away and try to switch subjects or avoid the discussion after it doesn't go your way. Your schtick is tired and old.

There was nothing wrong with trading Randolph and Crawford.He got back what they were worth - little to nothing. Crawford was traded the following year for the corpse of Speedy Claxton and Acie Law. Randolph was traded the following year for Quentin Richardson. These guys were worthless and in my opinion still are. I wouldn't any of them on my team now or then.

Passing on buying picks? He bought two actually - Toney Douglas and Jerome Jordan. A team doesn't buy picks every draft and there aren't teams selling their picks every draft. Remind me how many teams traded their picks for cash in the drafts Walsh was in. Now tell me how did you expect Walsh to get in on every deal? There is more stuff that goes on behind the scenes that you know nothing of yet act like you do. Nobody knows what was done, what those teams were thinking and what the reasoning was for the Knicks not purchasing picks from the few teams that did sell them.

He didn't draft a point guard, he signed one. Brandon Jennings is not a PG. I remember hearing he really like Jrue Holiday but he was very raw. He thought Jordan Hill was more NBA ready. He was wrong.

"Not drafting a real big"...some of these complaints are just typical you. You complain just to complain. We draft a big. He was Jordan Hill. He got traded. We signed Amar'e and Timofey Mozgov. We didn't have a pick in the 1st round in 2010 to choose anyone but we did pick Jordan in the 2nd round. Landry Fields was drafted with the 2nd rounder acquired in the original Balkman trade.

The Knicks tried to trade Randolph in the summer when Walsh was hired and all they were offered was a 2nd round pick by Memphis. They refused and instead traded him during the season for players they thought could help them a bit during the season. After all, his plan was to remain competitive for those two years. That didn't work out too well but the reasoning of taking Tim Thomas over a 2nd round pick is there. Randolph was then traded for Q-Rich, who became Craig Smith. Some catch that Randolph was, huh? His original team traded him for Channing Frye. Give me a break already.

If he could do the McGrady trade over, he would. Only because he gave up one too many picks. He shouldn't have traded the 2012 pick. He got desperate. It was an error. But this error should not even be close to as costly as to any draft pick trades Isiah made. We'll make out fine in the end.

Time for you to quit trying to find something to complain about and make posts that make sense. None of this sensationalism that is only posted to drum up arguments.

Once again slow as usual. Of course I'm referring to when there is issue to be taken in the current state of affairs not what he tried to rectify after the fact.

Like when Walsh was being questioned in 08' for not buying picks there were excuses(roster spots blah blah) debunked with the signings of Duhon and Chuckerson

Like when Walsh claimed the asking prices for Randolph was too high only after passing on a couple opportunities to trade him.... although the landscape of trading him proved different afterwards

Like when he made the T-Mac trade was being discussed a select few of us stated do not include Hill or a pick but excuses were made that it had to be done

Are you ever going to GET IT?

Are you ever going to post anything relevant?

The landscape of trading Randolph didn't change. It remained exactly the same. Maybe in your mind it did but in reality it did not.

Walsh never claimed the asking price was too high...what does that even mean anyway? Who's asking price? Why do you make no sense and make stuff up to go along with it?

The McGrady trade absolutely had to be done. If you're sitting here with LeBron James and Amar'e Stoudemire do you really care about Jordan Hill or a pick in 2012? The answer is no. You, possibly, would still be complaining because that's how you are. Nobody else would. Circumstances occurred where we did not get the two superstars we wanted in 2010. We had a shot and that's all we could ask for. We would have had 0 shot without the Jeffries trade. We made out pretty well regardless. I'd say Hill and a 1st rounder for Raymond Felton and Timofey Mozgov is pretty good if you ask me.

Once again you are saying things just to say them. There is very little justification or meaning to them. You're complaining just to complain because that is what you love doing. There is never a day on this forum where you're not complaining about something. Either you're a perfectionist or just really don't know anything about basketball. Either way, don't try and pass off your opinion as fact. And don't make stuff up to support your weak claims to boot.

Juice wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

Juice wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

Juice wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Juice wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Juice wrote:Another example...

The Bulls traded Kirk Hinrich and #17 to Washington essentially to free up cap space for 2010. Don't get me wrong Kirk is a better player than Effries but he had more salary on the books and pick 17 is not more valuable than pick 8.

That's what Donnie should have done if he was willing to push those kinds of chips to the table....might as well wait and be slow hand until the draft when you have more willing buyers.

You dont get it.

All Walsh's bad deals are Dolan's fault. Dolan forced the Jefferies trade. Dolan forced Walsh to draft Jordan Hill. Dolan forced Walsh to overpay on Melo. ETC.

I could have listed another example but I figure 2 should be enough for reality to sink in.

Slight correction of approach to the example mentioned

Obviously he could have traded Effries and pick 8 in the 2009 draft but not that this would show more slow handedness versus trading Effries and the 2011 1rst lottery protected or 2012 Top 5 protected during the 2010 draft. Bottomline the philosophy is to trade Effries and pick or even recently picked player(Hill) during the 2009 or 2010 draft.

He gave up way too much in the McGrady trade. He made his intentions clear and was taken to the cleaners by Morey. That was a horrible trade and it will be a topic again next June when the Rockets have the Knicks pick. It might have helped if Hill had been given some minutes over some Bender and Jeffries etc. to raise his value on last years 29 win team. When you evaluate Walsh/D'Antoni this is definitely one of their low points.

What has me puzzled from the extremely poor rebuttals past page or two from GKF/Bunson2Spencer and likes from the homer crowd...is like you said the very Pres/GM they're defending stated if he could do the McrGady trade over, he would. And he made these statements after other moves transpired across the league

It's always the excuse what was done was essentially the only option to be exercised no matter if it was trading Zach and Jamal to get cap space, passing on buying picks, not drafting a point guard, not drafting a real big etc etc

No matter what, what Walsh did was the only way, although we have proof before and after of what could have taken place

Remember the Zach Randolph Wojo rumor debacle that took place before we traded Zach surrounding Denver/Clips Camby then morphing into the Grizzlies rumors who ended up with him anyway?

That's funny. extremely poor rebuttals is what you call it. I call it a fact that you run away from. Just like you do EVERY SINGLE TIME you are confronted with something. You run away and try to switch subjects or avoid the discussion after it doesn't go your way. Your schtick is tired and old.

There was nothing wrong with trading Randolph and Crawford.He got back what they were worth - little to nothing. Crawford was traded the following year for the corpse of Speedy Claxton and Acie Law. Randolph was traded the following year for Quentin Richardson. These guys were worthless and in my opinion still are. I wouldn't any of them on my team now or then.

Passing on buying picks? He bought two actually - Toney Douglas and Jerome Jordan. A team doesn't buy picks every draft and there aren't teams selling their picks every draft. Remind me how many teams traded their picks for cash in the drafts Walsh was in. Now tell me how did you expect Walsh to get in on every deal? There is more stuff that goes on behind the scenes that you know nothing of yet act like you do. Nobody knows what was done, what those teams were thinking and what the reasoning was for the Knicks not purchasing picks from the few teams that did sell them.

He didn't draft a point guard, he signed one. Brandon Jennings is not a PG. I remember hearing he really like Jrue Holiday but he was very raw. He thought Jordan Hill was more NBA ready. He was wrong.

"Not drafting a real big"...some of these complaints are just typical you. You complain just to complain. We draft a big. He was Jordan Hill. He got traded. We signed Amar'e and Timofey Mozgov. We didn't have a pick in the 1st round in 2010 to choose anyone but we did pick Jordan in the 2nd round. Landry Fields was drafted with the 2nd rounder acquired in the original Balkman trade.

The Knicks tried to trade Randolph in the summer when Walsh was hired and all they were offered was a 2nd round pick by Memphis. They refused and instead traded him during the season for players they thought could help them a bit during the season. After all, his plan was to remain competitive for those two years. That didn't work out too well but the reasoning of taking Tim Thomas over a 2nd round pick is there. Randolph was then traded for Q-Rich, who became Craig Smith. Some catch that Randolph was, huh? His original team traded him for Channing Frye. Give me a break already.

If he could do the McGrady trade over, he would. Only because he gave up one too many picks. He shouldn't have traded the 2012 pick. He got desperate. It was an error. But this error should not even be close to as costly as to any draft pick trades Isiah made. We'll make out fine in the end.

Time for you to quit trying to find something to complain about and make posts that make sense. None of this sensationalism that is only posted to drum up arguments.

Once again slow as usual. Of course I'm referring to when there is issue to be taken in the current state of affairs not what he tried to rectify after the fact.

Like when Walsh was being questioned in 08' for not buying picks there were excuses(roster spots blah blah) debunked with the signings of Duhon and Chuckerson

Like when Walsh claimed the asking prices for Randolph was too high only after passing on a couple opportunities to trade him.... although the landscape of trading him proved different afterwards

Like when he made the T-Mac trade was being discussed a select few of us stated do not include Hill or a pick but excuses were made that it had to be done

Are you ever going to GET IT?

Are you ever going to post anything relevant?

The landscape of trading Randolph didn't change. It remained exactly the same. Maybe in your mind it did but in reality it did not.

Walsh never claimed the asking price was too high...what does that even mean anyway? Who's asking price? Why do you make no sense and make stuff up to go along with it?

The McGrady trade absolutely had to be done. If you're sitting here with LeBron James and Amar'e Stoudemire do you really care about Jordan Hill or a pick in 2012? The answer is no. You, possibly, would still be complaining because that's how you are. Nobody else would. Circumstances occurred where we did not get the two superstars we wanted in 2010. We had a shot and that's all we could ask for. We would have had 0 shot without the Jeffries trade. We made out pretty well regardless. I'd say Hill and a 1st rounder for Raymond Felton and Timofey Mozgov is pretty good if you ask me.

Once again you are saying things just to say them. There is very little justification or meaning to them. You're complaining just to complain because that is what you love doing. There is never a day on this forum where you're not complaining about something. Either you're a perfectionist or just really don't know anything about basketball. Either way, don't try and pass off your opinion as fact. And don't make stuff up to support your weak claims to boot.

My advice to you is follow this team more closely

Knicks can't unload Randolph -- Newsday.com

Knicks Can't Unload Randolph

BY ALAN HAHN | alan.hahn@newsday.com
10:21 PM EDT, September 19, 2008

For the second time in this offseason, trade discussions involving Zach Randolph have failed to come to fruition.

Knicks president Donnie Walsh was most recently engaged in talks with the Memphis Grizzlies, but multiple sources told Newsday that the Grizzlies have since reconsidered and decided to pass on Randolph. Walsh is still looking to find ways to shed Randolph's hefty contract, which has three years and $48 million left on it, but for now it appears that the 6-9 forward likely will remain a Knick when training camp opens in 11 days.

Last month, Walsh and Grizzlies general manager Chris Wallace discussed a deal that would have sent Randolph to Memphis in exchange for center Darko Milicic and swingman Marko Jaric. The Grizzlies, however, also wanted Walsh to give up a first-round pick in the deal. With the Knicks' 2010 first-round pick already earmarked for the Utah Jazz as part of the Stephon Marbury trade from 2004 -- the pick was originally traded by Isiah Thomas to the Phoenix Suns, who later traded it to Utah -- Walsh does not want to give up any more draft picks.

But Walsh does want to rid the Knicks' payroll of Randolph's salary, which pays him $14.6 million this .season, $16 million next season and balloons to $17.3 million in 2010-11. Randolph did put up good numbers last season -- 17.6 points and 10.3 rebounds per game -- but he is not considered a good fit in coach Mike D'Antoni's up-tempo scheme.

Considering his huge contract and prevailing questions about his character, Randolph will not be an easy player to move, but the Knicks have had their opportunities.

In July, the Los Angeles Clippers .expressed interest in Randolph, but Walsh declined their offer of a second-round pick .because the Clippers also asked for a first-round pick to come along with Randolph.

What's your point? That he passed up worse trade offers?

I know you can't read past 3 sentences so I'll make it easy for you.

Explain yourself because you make no sense. Zach Randolph was traded 3 times in his career and each time the trade was progressively worse. How did the "trade landscape" for Randolph improve? Because he had typical Randolph seasons in Memphis and his team didn't stink for once? That has more to do with the team than Randolph. Talented player, awful contract. If you think anyone is trading multiple first rounds picks for Zach Randolph and Jamal Crawford you need to take a look in the mirror and ask yourself "why?".

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:Knicks ended up with Felton, Amare, Lee trade, Moz. Quickly turned that into Amare, Melo, Billups.

You keep speaking about Revisionist history and never really put out what actually happened. Donnie did lay out his plan: it was to be in the free agent market with LeBron being top billing; sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't.

We got Melo and Billups summer 2010?

If Walsh's plan was to add 1 max and then trade for Melo we wouldn't have made the McGrady trade. Walsh wanted 2 max players and got 1.

We very likely would not have signed Amar'e without having room for two max guys. Amar'e thought Lebron would join him here and campaigned hard for it in the days leading up to the decision.

Also, without the McGrady trade, we wouldn't have had the cap room to acquire Anthony Randoplh, Mozgov or Felton - all of whom were assets in the Melo trade. I still don't love the Melo trade, and I think it is one of the reasons Walsh left, but if you like the Melo deal you pretty much needed the McGrady deal to happen first.