Juice wrote:Meanwhile Walsh(a seasoned GM) has given D'AnToni defenders and he doesn't really play them much or not at all(Darko/Hill/Moz/AR/Turiaf/Effries/Brown/Brewer/Hunter)

not for nothing, but a lot of coaches haven't played those guys much.

BigSm00th wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:in a microcosm, why brewer couldn't play for MDA:

can't shoot...hustles back on D and makes a defensive play. MDA would've yanked him!

MDA didn't want him becuase he's a one dimensonal SF. Who would you play COrey Brewer over right now on the Knicks?

this is tremendous. lets bookmark this and in 2 weeks when we are playing the heat in the first round, ask me that again.

he'd be our BEST perimeter defender. bill walker, roger mason, even shawne williams depending on the matchup.

Why does MDA play the one dimensional SF shawne williams? because his ONE DIMENSION is shooting!

also, why is that the mavs (6th best team in the LEAGUE according to record) can use a guy like brewer but the knicks can't? (we need anthony carter, roger mason, rautins -- these guys are point guards 3/4/5 by my count; we need derrick brown who doesnt play).

i think you point would be stronger if Brewer was actually part of the Mav's rotation, he isn't though.

Juice wrote:Pop and Thibs have rings and D'AToni doesn't they value lesser players by giving them prominent roles because they do certain things very well and help balance a team - 1

I still have no idea of what your point is. is it that MDA never plays role players like Fields or Raja Bell or Grant Hill or Kurt Thomas?

martin wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:in a microcosm, why brewer couldn't play for MDA:

can't shoot...hustles back on D and makes a defensive play. MDA would've yanked him!

MDA didn't want him becuase he's a one dimensonal SF. Who would you play COrey Brewer over right now on the Knicks?

this is tremendous. lets bookmark this and in 2 weeks when we are playing the heat in the first round, ask me that again.

he'd be our BEST perimeter defender. bill walker, roger mason, even shawne williams depending on the matchup.

Why does MDA play the one dimensional SF shawne williams? because his ONE DIMENSION is shooting!

also, why is that the mavs (6th best team in the LEAGUE according to record) can use a guy like brewer but the knicks can't? (we need anthony carter, roger mason, rautins -- these guys are point guards 3/4/5 by my count; we need derrick brown who doesnt play).

i think you point would be stronger if Brewer was actually part of the Mav's rotation, he isn't though.

I still don't know why we gave away Brewer without giving him a look. He's been impressive at points, totally inconsistent overall - but he's a blue chip talent. I feel like he's the kind of kid you have to take a look at.

The idea that they "did him a favor" by waiving him is ridiculous. Though he did get a great deal to warm the bench in Dallas.

Still, you gotta think they should have given him a look in a game or two.

martin wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:in a microcosm, why brewer couldn't play for MDA:

can't shoot...hustles back on D and makes a defensive play. MDA would've yanked him!

By all accounts, why hasn't he yanked Turiaf, JJ, AC?

martin wrote:

Juice wrote:Pop and Thibs have rings and D'AToni doesn't they value lesser players by giving them prominent roles because they do certain things very well and help balance a team - 1

I still have no idea of what your point is. is it that MDA never plays role players like Fields or Raja Bell or Grant Hill or Kurt Thomas?

No..... if any of those players I mentioned had shooting range they would get playing time. There wouldn't be a discussion of where are the minutes for them.

If Brewer were Kyle Korver we wouldn't have cut/waived him, although he's a defensive sieve.....

Those players you mentioned got into his PECKING ORDER right away largely due to reputations, sans Fields and the ability to knock down shots in 2 major areas of his scheme(3pt and PNR).....Bell was already groomed by Sloan(LB sorta prior too)....Grant Hill Nuff Ced and Kurt Thomas he was playing him largely at center(to afford him to play small) but we all know Thomas was a great PNR player.

It's offense 1rst and not required but if you have defense.... thanks. He won't acquire players and give them an immediate chance(besides maybe Effries) who's dominant quality is defense or athleticism.

I'll make one acknowledgement he was pushing for Tyrus Thomas in exchange for Harrington

loweyecue wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:I really like the idea of forcing a defensive assistant like Brown to D'Antoni. Heck, after a playoff run, how would it huts for D'Antoni to allow that. It shouldn't be forced, it should be MDA with arms wide open waiting for Brown to come to MSG.

While you are @ it, pass the bong..

Don't know exactly the reason for your response but just to make it clear, I mean Mike Brown, like suggested in the original post. Hope you aren't thinking about Larry Brown.

martin wrote:

Juice wrote:

martin wrote:

Juice wrote:Pop and Thibs have rings and D'AToni doesn't they value lesser players by giving them prominent roles because they do certain things very well and help balance a team - 1

I still have no idea of what your point is. is it that MDA never plays role players like Fields or Raja Bell or Grant Hill or Kurt Thomas?

No..... if any of those players I mentioned had shooting range they would get playing time. There wouldn't be a discussion of where are the minutes for them.

If Brewer were Kyle Korver we wouldn't have cut/waived him, although he's a defensive sieve.....

Those players you mentioned got into his PECKING ORDER right away largely due to reputations, sans Fields and the ability to knock down shots in 2 major areas of his scheme(3pt and PNR).....Bell was already groomed by Sloan(LB sorta prior too)....Grant Hill Nuff Ced and Kurt Thomas he was playing him largely at center(to afford him to play small) but we all know Thomas was a great PNR player.

It's offense 1rst and not required but if you have defense.... thanks. He won't acquire players and give them an immediate chance(besides maybe Effries) who's dominant quality is defense or athleticism.

I'll make one acknowledgement he was pushing for Tyrus Thomas in exchange for Harrington

so what you are saying is that guys without shooting range would never get a shot with MDA? Like Turiaf, JJ, Anthony Carter, etc?

basically it seems to me that you are grasping at straws.

I have to tell, I think the more common thread is that all coaches want 2-way players. And they want players who are committed to practice and show up in shape. Professionals. MDA favors vets who have proven themselves, that's a quality and philosophy that a lot of coaches buy into.

After that MDA likes it when you guys PROVE it to him that they both WANT to play and then DESERVE to play.

You know why Fields gets more playing time than Walker, even though Walker is by all means a more talented offensive player? Cause Field's doesn't have as many defensive lapses and he is mentally into the game.

He plays Turiaf/JJ/Carter sparingly and/or sporadically and he can't play just 5 players. There is no grasping at straws here. The only player getting any real minutes(consistent rate of pt) at the moment of those 3 is Carter. Turiaf and Effries have become more situational which is fine since he finally realized hey..... "I can play Shelden too?" Turiaf was touch and go almost all year because he wasn't Mr. Vitality but still there were many moments you wondered where he was at during the season

A player like Anthony Roberson can crack the rotation/make the team before someone like Corey Brewer is the point many of us are getting at

Show me an example(s) of a player who had a dominant offensive skillset over defensive where D'AnToni refused to play him or allow him to make the team?

There really is no way to compare Fields' playing time to Walker's and the justifying of minutes. Hell there was a point in time we were allowing teams to score near 108PPG while Walker was getting consistent DNPs and Landry logging heavy minutes. I'm sure Fields was guilty along with the other players who were getting clock allowing such high PPG and FG% during our worst stretches of the year.

martin wrote:

Juice wrote:He plays Turiaf/JJ/Carter sparingly and/or sporadically and he can't play just 5 players. There is no grasping at straws here. The only player getting any real minutes(consistent rate of pt) at the moment of those 3 is Carter. Turiaf and Effries have become more situational which is fine if since he finally realized hey..... I can play Shelden too? Turiaf was touch and go almost all year because he wasn't Mr. Vitality but still there were many moments you wondered where he was at during the season

A player like Anthony Roberson can crack the rotation/make the team before someone like Corey Brewer is the point many of us are getting at

Show me an example(s) of a player who had a dominant offensive skillset over defensive where D'AnToni refused to play him?

There really is no way to compare Fields' playing time to Walker's and the justifying of minutes. Hell there was a point in time we were allowing teams to score near 108PPG while Walker was getting consistent DNPs and Landry logging heavy minutes. I'm sure Fields was guilty along with the other players who were getting clock allowing such high PPG and FG% during our worst stretches of the year.

Turiaf would get consistent minutes as a Knick if he was healthy. And to think that you think AC is more in the rotation than Turiaf kind of shows me you either aren't paying attention to the injury reports of haven't seen him all year, especially early on.

Did you just say that Roberson cracked the rotation and then compare his situation to that of Brewers? I asked it in another thread. Brewer is a SG/SF. Melo, Fields, Walker, Shawne, TD all can play either SG or SF. And you would want Brewer around next year at $5M? You think that reasonable? Who's minutes would you cut? and why?

Let me know when a competent defensive player was constantly overlooked by a mediocre offensive skillset player in which MDA refused to play said defensive player.

No what I'm saying Carter is guaranteed more so to get his 10-15min every game over Turiaf getting 20. Turiaf/Effries are liable to play 26min one game and then play 9 min the next at this point. While these two may play more minutes in a particular game, Carter appears to have the more given minutes locked in.