TMS wrote:we have guys with a reputation for playing it that failed to do so in this game... JJ was not guarding anyone & neither were Chauncey or Landry... it's pretty clear this team lacks any focus on playing defense it's 1 thing if Melo or Stat are lapsing on defense but when guys who are known as defensive minded players stop playing D you know there's a deeper issue than just the players themselves... for that matter we had guys with a reputation for playing defense sitting on the bench all game that didn't see any action in Carter, Shelden & Balkman (& Turiaf if you count his pathetic 8 minutes of action).

Damn you TMS and your Vulcan logic.

Good points. Hey, I'm not sure if I ever expected to see the Westcoastification of Knickerbocker basketball 10 years ago, and when it's clicking, it's awesome to see. But damn it, my kingdom for a stop! I'm not going to be participating in any "Fire " chants in the Garden... mostly because I can't afford to go to the Garden... but also I just hate the disorder of it.

But I will ask: when is his contract done?

TMS wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Juice wrote:Those defensive plays were actually catch 22....objectively speaking SW made Granger take a tough shot he had to use a step back and he sent him to help, that's why he pulled up and stepped back. He didn't play him as aggressive than you would like but it was a tough shot.

The bicker shouldn't be on what the role players weren't doing in the clutch versus what the star players were doing all game.....Collison/Hansbrough/Hibbert/Jones were making the big plays in critical moments throughout the game. These are covers by Amar'e/Melo/Billups. Our big 3 just isn't that good. We know what the coach's focus is and always will be.

Good point Juice. I want to put the onus on Amar'e and Melo for our defensive effort... Billups is hurt and he has good backup in Toney D so I'll give him a pass. They come here notorious for not playing it, just as comes for not coaching it.

we have guys with a reputation for playing it that failed to do so in this game... JJ was not guarding anyone & neither were Chauncey or Landry... it's pretty clear this team lacks any focus on playing defense it's 1 thing if Melo or Stat are lapsing on defense but when guys who are known as defensive minded players stop playing D you know there's a deeper issue than just the players themselves... for that matter we had guys with a reputation for playing defense sitting on the bench all game that didn't see any action in Carter, Shelden & Balkman (& Turiaf if you count his pathetic 8 minutes of action).

Sometimes reps are blown way out of proportion I mean you clearly don't feel Effries is all that special defensively so who cares what the reputation says. It very well may be/is wrong

It starts with the leaders(Coach and a team's best players), when neither are fully committed, it's not at all surprising or a revelation when it isn't seen elsewhere.

I guarantee if you saw coach kneeling down on the sideline screaming at Melo to guard players out beyond the perimeter or calling timeouts due to Amar'e failing to grab key rebounds or being there on help D or screaming at Billups to fight over screens and play some trap every now and then throughout the game forcing penetrators to pick up their dribble far out....while all of them getting after it like in the Miami game uhhhhhh you'd see it from the rest of the team....

Sorry role players aren't flunkies or subordinates always via default....sometimes they will be equals or better yet greaters. As the saying goes those who prove to be the greatest among you will be those who serve you. We have no leaders willing to sacrifice..... yet they seek the glory and protection from failure. Absolute recipe for disastrous results.

nykshaknbake wrote:It really isn't though. We have 2 top 3 players at their position. Sure we are small, but our defensive problems go beyond that when a bad offensive team can walk in and get any shot they want.

DrAlphaeus wrote:

TMS wrote:we have guys with a reputation for playing it that failed to do so in this game... JJ was not guarding anyone & neither were Chauncey or Landry... it's pretty clear this team lacks any focus on playing defense it's 1 thing if Melo or Stat are lapsing on defense but when guys who are known as defensive minded players stop playing D you know there's a deeper issue than just the players themselves... for that matter we had guys with a reputation for playing defense sitting on the bench all game that didn't see any action in Carter, Shelden & Balkman (& Turiaf if you count his pathetic 8 minutes of action).

Damn you TMS and your Vulcan logic.

Good points. Hey, I'm not sure if I ever expected to see the Westcoastification of Knickerbocker basketball 10 years ago, and when it's clicking, it's awesome to see. But damn it, my kingdom for a stop! I'm not going to be participating in any "Fire " chants in the Garden... mostly because I can't afford to go to the Garden... but also I just hate the disorder of it.

But I will ask: when is his contract done?

i never had much of a passion for the uptempo style game that Rick Pitino & Don Nelson tried to employ in NY i've always been a fan of tough & rugged play... the Riley Knicks were really what made me into a diehard fan of this team, it's hard for me to watch this kind of performance... if the Riley Knicks ever gave up 119 to a crappy team like the Cavs or Pacers, he'd have them running double practices & running sprints til the next game... guys would be out of breathe by the time the next game rolled around but they knew these types of performances wouldn't be tolerated... i bet MDA is more apt to give these guys a day off from practice to try & save their energy for the next game instead of holding them accountable with tough love after a game like this.

regardless of all that, i think it's way late to be firing coaches & tanking the season we gotta just keep hoping this teams gets their act together by the time the playoffs come around (if we even make it at this rate)... if we don't start playing better defense then this coach deserves to get the boot, i'm sick of the excuses... i'm not expecting us to be the Celtics or Bulls but i damn sure don't expect us to be allowing teams like the Cavs or Pacers continue to embarass us like this.

TMS wrote:In the post game MDA was asked "what do you think was wrong defensively tonight?"... does he address how Shawne Williams let Granger blow past him & how late JJ was in rotating over to help? of course not... does he talk about how JJ stood motionless in the paint while Collison drove to the hole for easy layups? no sir.

MDA's response:
" i don't think anything was wrong with our defense we just weren't making shots"

we scored 117 pts tonight but our problem was not hitting our shots... terrific.

Exactly!!! I have been saying this while purple in the face! To MDAss it is all about shots SHOTS push more SHOTS 3's, BS! Enough about our shots! what about the other teams PUCHING shots.

Same bull SHCIT it the huddle "push, lets gets shots, more shots, we gotta run ... Well how about phucking rotating and pushing and running on defense you dumb prick??

Knicksfan wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:LOL. Co-sign.

nykshaknbake wrote:I'm not even hoping to be at the level of the Nuggetts right now. But just at the level of the Pacers. And yes we have a better team than the Pacers.

DrAlphaeus wrote:Well doesn't it go back to the argument of which is better: the Knicks with 2 superstar iso players with no defensive chops, or the Nuggets with true centers and 2 solid players at least in every position?

nykshaknbake wrote:It really isn't though. We have 2 top 3 players at their position. Sure we are small, but our defensive problems go beyond that when a bad offensive team can walk in and get any shot they want.

We may have better individual players or just have more superstars than the Pacers, but right now we aren't even on their level as a team. We are not yet a team.

so we all know new teams need adjustment periods. the heat just recovered from the pits. shouldn't that be expected of us?

I SAY NO!

2 reasons. 2 superstars. amare and carmelo.

i was having a good time watching games before the trade and no we look lifeless.

now i know the potential of this team could be greater than the last but as a fan i demand this team to get their superstar sh!t together and win some focking games

TymeLessKnicks wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:LOL. Co-sign.

nykshaknbake wrote:I'm not even hoping to be at the level of the Nuggetts right now. But just at the level of the Pacers. And yes we have a better team than the Pacers.

DrAlphaeus wrote:Well doesn't it go back to the argument of which is better: the Knicks with 2 superstar iso players with no defensive chops, or the Nuggets with true centers and 2 solid players at least in every position?

nykshaknbake wrote:It really isn't though. We have 2 top 3 players at their position. Sure we are small, but our defensive problems go beyond that when a bad offensive team can walk in and get any shot they want.

We may have better individual players or just have more superstars than the Pacers, but right now we aren't even on their level as a team. We are not yet a team.

so we all know new teams need adjustment periods. the heat just recovered from the pits. shouldn't that be expected of us?

I SAY NO!

2 reasons. 2 superstars. amare and carmelo.

i was having a good time watching games before the trade and no we look lifeless.

now i know the potential of this team could be greater than the last but as a fan i demand this team to get their superstar sh!t together and win some focking games

The Knicks are playing the same kind of (absent) defense that we have since the days D'Antoni arrived. Do you think its a coincidence? Do you think its a coincidence that we allow 106 points to a Pacers team that was in a terrible losing streak with lots of difficulties scoring and lose the game, only to come back after a couple of days with supposedly some adjustments to get a much needed win and we allow them 119? That's D'Antoni's system and no eternal training camp will change that fact. This team is as horrible on defense as all D'Antomi's teams.

This team is having no trouble scoring, but on defense they are nowhere to be found. Same as before. Same as it will be with this coach.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:This man has shown he is not the right coach for this team. It's time the players just begin to tune him out. He makes no effort to get his team to play defense, so why should the players?

Because they get paid bloody well to do it -- more than to coach it -- and it's their job?

I know what you are saying, but our leaders on the floor need to be doing it too.

I miss a healthy Billups.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

TMS wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Hardly anyone minded D'antoni's ineptitude for the first few years because of the lack of talent on this roster. There were no all stars, the young guys needed time to mature, and the team just wasn't playoff ready. He needed the right guys to run his offensive system. Now that he has two perennial all star caliber players, his weaknesses are clearly beginning to show. The team can produce offensively, which is what he wanted. However, the defense still remains a glaring issue, just like it was in his earlier Knicks days. The excuses are beginning to fade by the day with this coach. He advocated the Melo trade, which is why I don't even know why some D'antoni supporters are blaming the trade for this team's lack of defensive commitment. D'antoni got a free pass when the team was filled with bottom feeders. Now its his job to get his all star caliber roster to commit to a defensive philosophy, but we have still yet to see results.

all i know is if MDA can't win games vs teams like the Cavs & Pacers with 2 elite players like he's got now, he doesn't deserve to be coaching... he better right the ship & quick tonight's game these guys better come out angry & hungry to put a hurtin' on the Pacers who just embarassed them on their home floor the other night & make a clear statement that these players are committed to playing well the rest of the way, otherwise why are we even paying this coach to lead this team?

Here we are a few hours later. Whatever Dantoni told his basketball team between the first Pacers game and tonight's obviously didn't sink in. He's losing his control with this team after each and every loss that should have been a win. Another loss to another bad team, by having another high scoring shootout.

This man has shown he is not the right coach for this team. It's time the players just begin to tune him out. He makes no effort to get his team to play defense, so why should the players?

absolutely zero accountability from anyone on this team including the head coach.

This is not good.