BRIGGS wrote:Fishmike---call the bluff--simple as that.

Yes we caved, yes we got used, yes the Nets totally phucked us and so did all the guys in Melo's camp (CAA?) who convinced him it would work to sign there.

You listen to Walsh he laid it out very simply... It was this team, at that point or no Melo for the Knicks. I think it wasnt just the caliber of player Melo is (which is debatable) but the fact that a 26 year old annual all star wanted to play for his hometown Knicks first made this a deal that had to happen.

I thought that Melo needed the Knicks much more than we needed Melo, but Walsh opted to pull the plug and work on the other pieces after.

nixluva wrote:It's like Peyton Manning vs. Ben Roethlisberger. Ben is best when he's outside the pocket and improvising and that's more like AR. Peyton is a technician and reads the D like a computer.

How dare you compare Big Ben versus a guy like AR

I get the arguments around Randolph and Gallo, who both could potentially become very good big men. (since there are relatively few 6'10"+ of them... "very good" big men often become all-stars... without really being truly elite)

But given Randolph's level of development, there's no telling if he'll ever reach his potential... and the Knicks clearly didn't have the patience to develop him.

CrushAlot wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Same old Randolph thinking he is a PG trying to bring the ball up and turning the ball over.

Scored off dunks and shots around the rim. Luckily for him he can play PF and C for Minny and is allowed to make mistakes. He wouldn't have succeeded here.

I didn't see the game but the box score says he had no turnovers.

I saw a bit of the game, and did not see him do anything too foolish. I thought he had better height on his jumps, and made a nice attempt to block a dunk by Daye. I assume that his injury has improved, and this accounts for his better jumping.

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Same old Randolph thinking he is a PG trying to bring the ball up and turning the ball over.

Scored off dunks and shots around the rim. Luckily for him he can play PF and C for Minny and is allowed to make mistakes. He wouldn't have succeeded here.

is this the only feedback from the game?

AnubisADL? anything else?

The game was nothing special.

- He still has problems holding position for rebounds. Greg Monroe was bodying him.
- Still bricking jump shots
- He converted shots 5-10 feet from the basket

He just got more playing time.

crzymdups wrote:I can't complain about the Melo trade, that's just whack. We are a better team.

Though I've said several times that I think the biggest failing of the D'Antoni era was not giving AR more of a look (and throw Corey Brewer in there, too). Biggest failing for Walsh was wasting a lotto pick on Jordache Hill.

To me - even if you'd developed AR and decided to trade him - it could have made the cost of the Melo trade lower. If Donnie hadn't made such a horrible pick with Jordan Hill, we might not have needed to throw in the 2012 draft pick to move Jeffries.

To me AR and the 2009 lotto pick were somewhat wasted assets here.

Other than that, I'm happy with team Donnie and Mike have built. I do think our team could be slightly deeper right now if the 2009 draft pick had been better used and if AR had been given more playing time.

Que sera, we still have Melo and Amar'e for the next 5 years.

Hey, don't forget. We've got TD, Shawne Williams and Fields. For all we've lost, our coffers are not empty. Add Turiaf to that collection too.

BRIGGS wrote:

EWING33BXNY wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EWING33BXNY wrote:It really kills me that many of us on here wanted to win and win NOW. But the majority of us wanted this to happen without giving up any assets. IMHO that type of thinking is ABSURD. It was necessary for us to give up what we had in order to make it to the next level. Everyone that is against this trade talks about how we are handcuffed for the next few years and goes off the SPECULATION that Melo was going to FA. I’m a believer that Melo wanted to come to the Knicks and the Knicks only but any smart business man, who has a family, who needs to provide for, and has any bit of common sense WOULD NOT leave MILLIONS on the table. The only thing that is separating us from the NETS is a BRIDGE and that would have been too risky of a play. In all honesty we were not going to win with what we had this year or in the next few years to come. With Melo here he has the respect of the other players that NY is not a bad place to come and play. This is the first time in a LONG TIME that players around the league are even fielding calls from us. Over the past ten years we have been the laughing stock of the NBA. Now that we are headed in the right direction not everyone wants to think it was the right move. I’m not saying that as Knicks fans we need to gather together and sing “Kumbaya” but we shouldn’t have blinders on and think that we are not headed in the right direction because of the “assets” we no longer have.

its a perspective thing. I didnt love the trade but Melo is an all star every year and prob not a top 10 player but surely a top 15.

If two years ago you said we could get a GM to come in, clean house for two years then reload w/ Melo (26), Amare (28), Billups (34) and a bunch of spare parts I think 9 out of 10 would have signed up for that.

These playoffs are HUGE comging up. IF the Knicks can beat the Heat or Bulls in round one it sends a clear message that all this was worth it. How good we become rests on Walsh's ability to add the supporting cast.

I was not a big fan of the trade either because of what we gave up but I believed that we had to do it in order to get MELO. I considered Denver's Front Office being naive in the negotiations but they showed me different in the end. I think we should not doubt Walsh's ability to bring in the other pieces because he is shown to be capable of doing so before and players are now willing to come to the BIG CITY. As a team we are in a better place then Miami because the STARS we do have don't play the same position or do the same things.

I agree that these playoffs are going to be huge and I'm drinking the kool-aid that we are going to do well. No one really wants to deal with the team we have in the first round. Playing a first round playoffs series against Amare and Carmelo is a big headache for anyone!

I don't see how anyone can argue with my point of view-- we didnt just give up role players for Carmelo. We gave up a boatload of young really good talent with size that we couldve relied on for years. I dont even think we used AR right-we sent him out to the three pt line and fkced him up. In addition all of those picks that couldve just kept feeding us depth Y-Y--all for what. We gave up 7-1 6-11 6-10 6-8 all young athletic and talented our PG who at some pints was looked as an all star level

For a guy we couldve had for very little in FA. You guys dont have cahones--and we know Dolan must have a little weener. grow some balls and let it go to FA--call the bluff You dont play you are the player. We got abused.

Then the only question that needs to be asked is; what team would you have fielded if we didn't get Carmelo?

Donnie had a nice plan, but circumstances changed and we had to pay more. That just means he's still got work to do. It doesn't mean it wasn't worth it. If I blow a chance to get a BMW 760 for 10K less than it costs and have to pay full price, that doesn't lessen the value of the Car or it's performance. Sometimes you get the sale and sometimes you don't. All I lost was the ability to have the nicer set of rims, tires and window tint I was gonna get with the money I saved. I still got the 760 tho and chick's will still get in.

knickstorrents wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:We as Knicks fans have suffered so much the last decade that we have a masochist tendency to want to be unhappy, even when things start to look up.

Over the last 10 years, not once have we tried to build through the draft. Antonio Mcdyess, Stephon Marbury, Eddy Curry, the list goes on and one with players who were deemed to be saviors, but in actuality were not.

Carmelo is not a transcendant player that deserves a full max salary slot. He handcuffs the knicks into a similar situation. It's not as bad as our previous situations for sure, but right now I do not see a way for the team to get to a championship level.

Maybe I'm wrong, I hope not. But the way Carmelo plays, you have to tailor pieces around him. Denver had very very good pieces around him, and they could not get very far because he is so inefficient and plays porous defense.

Look around at the current championship teams, and previous ones, and tell me how far they were able to get without home growing any kind of talent.

The answer is zero.

I think some of us are underestimating Melo. He has another few levels he can raise his game to. He's done it before. He's made 18 game winning shots, which I believe is the best of any current player. He's not even comfortable here yet. Then you have Chauncey and STAT who are both nearly as capable of pulling out wins. We just can't admit or accept that we have "one of those teams" now. The current core is the best we've had since the Ewing days. Billups, Melo and STAT is probably the best 3 players we've had since the 73 title team. The team isn't perfect, but let's not make it out to be a fail so far. We've still got moves to make this offseason to get better.