Finestrg wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:derrick brown was such a great move by donnie....

this guy hopefully plays more than jeffries....

I honestly don't get it --- not saying Derrick Brown is worthless, he's a good athlete and he's still got some promise, but what he is is a smallish PF (basically another wing) that doesn't address the rebounding issue. And to me they just competely overrate Jared Jeffries and what he brings to the table---they think of Jeffries as some monster defensive guru and he's not. Can he attempt to guard PGs and centers? Yeah, but he guards neither well enough to justify playing him big mins....I just don't get it...We either needed a legit C or a PF that plays big & rebounds where we're OK moving STAT over to the 5 (which I never had a problem with as long as we got a big enough dirty-work type PF). Jeffries stinks, end of story -- at least Brown's got some ability but these are two suspect moves here. I think we could've done much better.

it's slim pickins out there in term of real centers and we traded away ours. it's ok the Godfather takes care of things...

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

simrud wrote:I think all these waiver moves are marginal one way or another. We are not going to get a rebounding, shotblocking big body player from the garbage bin of the NBA. Going to have to use the MLE and LLE to complete the front court in the summer. At least we have a decent backup PG in Carter now. I think getting a couple of decent bigs to split the C minutes is doable in the summer with MLE and LLE. We shoud be ok at backup PF between Turiaf, the 2 Williamses etc.

I don't agree dude..First off, there were/are rebounding/shot-blocking big men available--legit Cs and PFs--we just didn't target any of them apparently..And I don't think we have to throw MLE or LLE-type money at a player for the fix..There are so many players out there that we could've gotten to plug holes..Isn't that the name of the game now, plugging holes? Regarding the MLE btw -- I doubt we come in over the cap in the off-season (the only way a team can use that exception) OR they might wind up doing away with it altogether in the new CBA...And then there's the overpaying issue--throwing too much money (full MLE) at a bad player like Jeffries got us in trouble once before; I'm not looking to repeat that mistake..The cap needs to be managed wisely now..No more mistakes -- we make some bad signings now, forget it--it'll take us right outta the running a couple of years from now for another big piece possibly..To me you use a MLE deal when you're ALREADY championship caliber, not before..It's a death sentence to use it before and cap yourself when you're not on that level yet..And I don't agree we're OK with Turiaf and the two Williams at back up 4/5...Turiaf IS NOT a good enough rebounder or scorer, Shawne Williams is competely out of position and overmatch trying to cover other teams' big guys inside and the coach might never even give Shelden Williams a chance anyway (regardless, dude's had an underwhelming career to say the least).

I do agree that we're OK with Carter as another PG/ball-handler off the bench though..All of our energy should've gone into identifying and getting the best frontcourt players possible -- Bigs that play big and fill holes..We didn't do that..Why I don't know.

Finestrg, a couple of things: First, you assumption that these D-Leagues can plug holes is a big assumption. Why, if they are so good, have they not been called up? I am trying to recall the last big to make his way from dominating the D-League to making a small impact in the NBA and am coming up empty. Most likely every team in the league could use another big and yet we don't hear any squeaks about any big men.

Second, "I doubt we come in over the cap in the off-season". Let's use real numbers. Just in case you were not aware: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm. Most likely, the Knicks WILL be over cap.

DL Bigs... Let's start recently and work backward in time: How 'bout Chris Johnson? Boston Celtics? Guy's gotten into every game for them so far since being called up, including 17 mins the other night in Denver. How 'bout Anthony Tolliver? Here's an undrafted D-Leaguer that's had nice success and gotten regular PT for a couple of different teams over the past two years (we were actually rumored to be interested in this guy at one time before he ended up with the Wolves in case YOU weren't aware..). How 'bout Reggie Evans? Ever heard of that guy? Dude's a top NBA rebounder..Marcin Gortat was basically a D-Leaguer at one point (drafted 57th in '05 by PHX, then traded to the Magic--I believe he played 1 season in the NBDL before he ever even played for Orlando)..Similar story with Amir Johnson...Joey Dorsey too; he was drafted late but really improved his game in the DL..Udonis Haslem? Never drafted by an NBA team. How good a role player is he? DaMarre Carroll has been up with the Grizzles and contributed..How 'bout Joel Anthony?? Hamed Haddadi?? Remember Bo Outlaw? Good player, I don't think he was ever drafted..Anthony Mason?? Hello? Come on bro, don't make me keep going..Now remember, we're just talkin' BIGS here..I'm not even counting all the PGs and wings that have come up from the NBDL over the years and had an impact in the NBA..Point is this (and I think you can see now that it goes w/o saying): the DL is a useful resource from which to get players from. It's my opinion that we could've gotten better bigs, bigs that could've actually filled a hole like REBOUNDING, in the DL right now over what we just brought on board..Furthermore, I'd rather look at all available data including what my gut tells me when I watch a guy play personally when making "an assumption" on whether guys from the DL could or couldn't help this team..Just curious: what pray tell, if anything, goes into your assumption that DL bigs COULD NOT help this team?? Misterearl's uninformed comments???? Is that it?

Just ran through the cap numbers, and yeah, I guess you're right -- looks like we will be slightly over $60M by the time next season rolls around (true that could either be over or right at the cap, or maybe even under..who knows---I don't just "assume" there's gonna be some 10% cut to the cap like other posters do..Very good chance it could be higher---what happens if it ascends to $61, 62, 63M? Then we could be below..Just goes to show you right there, btw, I'm not presumptuous about anything unless I see facts What happened this year -- the cap turned out to be a few million higher than what was being anticipated--you mean to tell me, if the NBA made a lot of money this year, that can't happen again??)...Probably 'over' or 'at'---right now based on prediction and forecasting, I'll concede that...Still, I stick by my secondary point when talking about using the MLE -- I don't think you go out and use the full MLE on a guy that may not put us over the hump..I'm not ready to box myself into a corner like that again. We've done that before, with Jared f'in Jeffries in fact, and have gotten burned ROYALLY..We'll have to see who's available and if it's worth using..I know this much -- if we hand that type of contract to the wrong guy/a player that's not gonna be a difference maker in terms of instantly becoming an elite team, I'd pass..We could put ourselves in real jeopardy and I don't wanna go through that situation again...I'll have to see who's available and make an educated guess at that time..DeAndre Jordan's been talked about on the board recently; he could be a possibliity..Also, even if over the cap, I believe we can still add mimimum to low cost talent to fill out the roster..A good place to look for that kind of talent IS IN THE D-LEAGUE!!

He's got some balls stealing loverboy Gallo's number so quick like that and Spree obviously is still legendary in many respects.....Derrick show em what's.... UPS

WHAT CAN BROWN DO FOR YOU.....

Knickoftime wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:I am thoroughly disappointed considering Powe is still on the market.

Just because he's on the market, doesn't mean he's interested in the Knicks.

Or we weren't interested in him...

Childs2Dudley wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:I am thoroughly disappointed considering Powe is still on the market.

Just because he's on the market, doesn't mean he's interested in the Knicks.

Or we weren't interested in him...

Has anyone even seen him for an extended period of time this year? I only remember him pre-injury. Brown may be a good fit as a defender and his shot is not half-bad from long distance. Sounds like Charlotte hoped to bring him back he he squeezed through waivers, which says something.

Not groundshaking, but a nice little pick-up, supposedly helped along by Felton.

I'm hoping that he becomes our version of Posey.

Juice wrote:

tkf wrote:

Juice wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:derrick brown was such a great move by donnie....

this guy hopefully plays more than jeffries....

I honestly don't get it --- not saying Derrick Brown is worthless, he's a good athlete and he's still got some promise, but what he is is a smallish PF (basically another wing) that doesn't address the rebounding issue. And to me they just competely overrate Jared Jeffries and what he brings to the table---they think of Jeffries as some monster defensive guru and he's not. Can he attempt to guard PGs and centers? Yeah, but he guards neither well enough to justify playing him big mins....I just don't get it...We either needed a legit C or a PF that plays big & rebounds where we're OK moving STAT over to the 5 (which I never had a problem with as long as we got a big enough dirty-work type PF). Jeffries stinks, end of story -- at least Brown's got some ability but these are two suspect moves here. I think we could've done much better.

Brown is a guy who will fit the style of play already installed here. It's a good pick up.

He's an NBA guy - expecting the Knicks to bring up an NBDL guy at this point of the season and try to work him in is just unrealistic.

Not if he's a much better fit it isn't..No difference between a capable DL player ready to take the jump and a guy like Derrick Brown..Now if they would've gotten Troy Murphy, that's a different story..NBA established double-double guy--excellent rebounder and shooter that's 6'11". Brown hasn't done anything noteworthy in his career yet, he's smallish and he doesn't address the rebounding problem..Again, I'm not saying he's useless, there's upside here for sure, but what hole does this guy plug?? What are they looking for when they brought him in?? Derrick Brown is a hybrid F that's not even as good or versatile as Wilson Chandler..I mean heck, if they wanted a skilled 3/4 off the bench to take over Chandler's 6th man role, I would've preferred DeShawn Sims..I think Sims is more skilled that Brown. Not that familiar with Vernon Goodridge but I gotta wonder if he would've been a better fit that Derrick Brown as well..Goodridge, when you watch the clip, plays bigs--rebounds it, blocks some shots, etc..That's not really Brown's game..Come to think of it, Brown's game is pretty hard to define right now..What is he exactly??

I've talked about quite a few guys but the guy everyone would've been extremely satisfied with would've been Earl Barron..7', rebounder and he can bury mid-range jumpers..PERFECT FIT..PERFECTO!!! Why is this guy not in a Knick uniform right now??? I can't wait to hear the explanation on these two signings..Don't tell me about Jeffries' defense when we had a younger, much better defender, much better overall player in Corey Brewer that we just cut loose (heck I prefer Balkman over Jeffries when you get right down to it) and don't tell me that Brown fixes the rebounding problem or anything else..Does Brown even have a potent enough offensive game to act as primary scorer off the bench?? I don't see it..

Key is you have to think about things going into the off-season. Much easier to retain a guy like Brown than someone like Murphy who will require long-term salary commitment of some sort at a larger rate than someone like Brown. Plus we don't need to get any older than we currently are. We need to get younger looking for players with youth upside. Reports are Murphy isn't really looking our way it's Miami and Boston...he's also very much overrated. We'll have 5 guys under contract in July who are 27yrs or older and only 3guys 25yrs old and under with exception to Walker being picked up. We'll probably be looking for players who'll sign 1-2yr deals at best until 2012 on the cheap therefore picking up guys like Brown fit the plan going forward.

I know you are happy man.....

Kind of surreal in a way. Hate to make such a big deal over a second round pick but I do believe he's worth making a big deal about. This has Landry Fields potential like acquisition.....Mark my words.

I have been watching him since you started giving him props... forget that he is a second rounder, if the kid has skills then it is a big deal. look at all the second round draft picks that are doing well.. guys like fields and gortat are putting in work..

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

what makes you think they aren't addressing that in their minds?

jeffries and dbrown are big and athletic and fit the style this team likes to play.

the idea that troy murphy is a better defender than either jeffries or dbrown is LUDICROUS.

who else was out there? if they'd wanted earl barron on this team, they could have signed him at any point over the past three months. it's pretty clear they weren't too enamored of his skill set after seeing him up close last spring.

Crzy, go back and read my last few posts on this board..All your answers are right there my dude..

i saw your list, frankly i wasn't terribly excited about anyone on it.

and no offense, i kind of trust donnie and mda to sign who they want and feel fits the style/culture of the team.

donnie has done a fantastic job with the locker room since he got here. derrick brown seems like a good kid - fits with the toney douglas, landry fields types. smart, lunchpail guys who keep the team's barometer pointing the right direction.

No doubt Donnie's done a great job--I'm firmly behind the man 100%..Always have been..But what are we supposedly looking for here??? I don't think it has anything to do with this guy or that guy being a "good kid." I want a little more than that -- I want a rebounder! LOL.