Bippity10 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:Think about Karl Malone and Michael Jordan. Both are all-time greats. You cannot deny it. But what seperates Michael from Karl can be summed up in that final game. I'm going by memory right now so correct me if my summary is wrong but it's close enough.

1.) Jazz up one, Karl Malone has the ball up one with about 20 seconds left with a chance to put his team up 3 and most likely force game 7 at home.
2.) Karl Malone gets the ball in the post in one of the most important moments of his career and after thousands of post ups, one of the best passing most aware big men in the history of the game picks that moment to forget to look for the double team. Picks that moment to have a brain lapse
3.) Michael Jordan, hyper aware notices that Karl did not look for the double team. Hyper elite status aware that he has time to get their before Karl will find the open man. The biggest moment of the season and he picks that moment to make the best possible decision again!!! He rips the ball from Malone
4.) Next play Jordan hits the game winning shot to win the title. He didn't over penetrate and barrell into eight guys. He didn't drive into a double team. he didn't jack up a three pointer. He didn't dribble the ball off his knee. He simply took a couple dribbles and pulled up for a simple 15 footer. Always the right decision

During Jordan's career there were thoussands of moments just like that. Every tight playoff game against the Knicks and the Jazz and the Pacers, Jordan repeatedly made the perfect decision, while guys like Ewing and malone and Reggie made that one tiny fatal mistake. Taht's why Jordan has all the titles. Even later in his career when there were dozens of guys that could fly higher then him, he still won. Because he always made the right play.

It's the same thing with Melo today. For as many times as Carmelo(and Amare) have carried us, we've seen them make dozens of bonehead plays during crunch times of crucial games. I'm not even talking about over the course of the season. I'm talking about in the 15 or 20 "must win" games we've had this year. We've seen charges, forced passes, bad shots, missed box outs, losing their men on defense, forgetting to foul. These are things the true superstars just don't do. For them to make the next level(which they clearly can) they have to erase these mistakes. I personally think it's a direct result of not playing college ball for an extensive period of time, but that's just me. I love them both, but reality is reality. Being great is making big plays and also not making dumb ones.

I seen the same bonehead plays, I have also seen him execute down the stretch...He hasn't had the opportunities the others has had on the big stage...I think this is different for Carmelo being in NY...He wanted the big stage and he is trying to prove he was worthy of the big trade...I think he is being over zealous in trying to get everything right and making sure people see him playing hard...I think he is trying too hard to be honest...But he is starting to get what comes along with playing in NY...I'll give it an offseason and a chance to get to know Amare on the court...I think you will see a very different player than you saw in Denver...He has had some 10 assist games here, 17 boards there...U just don't turn stuff like that on...Right now he is trying hard to prove he belongs and it's hurting his game and his decisions...

Holfresh that's the point. The man has been great for us. The man has carried us in important games. I'm not knocking him. That last game was phenomenal. He's hit game winners. He's made heady passes and steals and blocks when it matters. he has made a fan out of me when. I was a sceptic. But you don't get labelled a elite star just for trying hard. After retirement MJ wanted to prove to the world he was still great. He didn't try to hard. He just did it. Shaq wanted to prove it was him not Kobe. So he won in Miami. There was no trying to hard and bonehead mistkes. Kobe wanted to prove he could win without Shaq. He did. These guys did it on bigger stages then _armelo. For the criticims to stop carmelo needs stop trying to hard, stop falling asleep at crucial moments and just get it done. Carmelo and amare are our leaders. Their teammates follow what they do. They should NEVER forget to foul. NEVER barrell into a double/triple team in crunch time. They should never fall asleep and give up a crucial wide open J at the key moments. Its unacceptable to happen even once to one of your stars, let alone repeatedly. During crunch time TD and Jared can be boneheads, those two cannot

That's how you become a true superstar. No doubt they can do it, and I feel good about our chances. But these moments have to be eliminated. No excuses. Otherwise the critics sill always be there

True stars need that guy on the sidelines in their ear as well...One more knock on Melo is that he isn't ready to play a full season on both ends of the court...He should know this, but a coach who he respects needs to tell him get in here in shape to play both ends all year..

My original point was that comparing him to Vince, Arenas and TMac wasn't really an accurate measure....I'm not saying he is Kobe, but he isn't those others either and that's proven...

Bippity10 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:Think about Karl Malone and Michael Jordan. Both are all-time greats. You cannot deny it. But what seperates Michael from Karl can be summed up in that final game. I'm going by memory right now so correct me if my summary is wrong but it's close enough.

1.) Jazz up one, Karl Malone has the ball up one with about 20 seconds left with a chance to put his team up 3 and most likely force game 7 at home.
2.) Karl Malone gets the ball in the post in one of the most important moments of his career and after thousands of post ups, one of the best passing most aware big men in the history of the game picks that moment to forget to look for the double team. Picks that moment to have a brain lapse
3.) Michael Jordan, hyper aware notices that Karl did not look for the double team. Hyper elite status aware that he has time to get their before Karl will find the open man. The biggest moment of the season and he picks that moment to make the best possible decision again!!! He rips the ball from Malone
4.) Next play Jordan hits the game winning shot to win the title. He didn't over penetrate and barrell into eight guys. He didn't drive into a double team. he didn't jack up a three pointer. He didn't dribble the ball off his knee. He simply took a couple dribbles and pulled up for a simple 15 footer. Always the right decision

During Jordan's career there were thoussands of moments just like that. Every tight playoff game against the Knicks and the Jazz and the Pacers, Jordan repeatedly made the perfect decision, while guys like Ewing and malone and Reggie made that one tiny fatal mistake. Taht's why Jordan has all the titles. Even later in his career when there were dozens of guys that could fly higher then him, he still won. Because he always made the right play.

It's the same thing with Melo today. For as many times as Carmelo(and Amare) have carried us, we've seen them make dozens of bonehead plays during crunch times of crucial games. I'm not even talking about over the course of the season. I'm talking about in the 15 or 20 "must win" games we've had this year. We've seen charges, forced passes, bad shots, missed box outs, losing their men on defense, forgetting to foul. These are things the true superstars just don't do. For them to make the next level(which they clearly can) they have to erase these mistakes. I personally think it's a direct result of not playing college ball for an extensive period of time, but that's just me. I love them both, but reality is reality. Being great is making big plays and also not making dumb ones.

I seen the same bonehead plays, I have also seen him execute down the stretch...He hasn't had the opportunities the others has had on the big stage...I think this is different for Carmelo being in NY...He wanted the big stage and he is trying to prove he was worthy of the big trade...I think he is being over zealous in trying to get everything right and making sure people see him playing hard...I think he is trying too hard to be honest...But he is starting to get what comes along with playing in NY...I'll give it an offseason and a chance to get to know Amare on the court...I think you will see a very different player than you saw in Denver...He has had some 10 assist games here, 17 boards there...U just don't turn stuff like that on...Right now he is trying hard to prove he belongs and it's hurting his game and his decisions...

Holfresh that's the point. The man has been great for us. The man has carried us in important games. I'm not knocking him. That last game was phenomenal. He's hit game winners. He's made heady passes and steals and blocks when it matters. he has made a fan out of me when. I was a sceptic. But you don't get labelled a elite star just for trying hard. After retirement MJ wanted to prove to the world he was still great. He didn't try to hard. He just did it. Shaq wanted to prove it was him not Kobe. So he won in Miami. There was no trying to hard and bonehead mistkes. Kobe wanted to prove he could win without Shaq. He did. These guys did it on bigger stages then _armelo. For the criticims to stop carmelo needs stop trying to hard, stop falling asleep at crucial moments and just get it done. Carmelo and amare are our leaders. Their teammates follow what they do. They should NEVER forget to foul. NEVER barrell into a double/triple team in crunch time. They should never fall asleep and give up a crucial wide open J at the key moments. Its unacceptable to happen even once to one of your stars, let alone repeatedly. During crunch time TD and Jared can be boneheads, those two cannot

That's how you become a true superstar. No doubt they can do it, and I feel good about our chances. But these moments have to be eliminated. No excuses. Otherwise the critics sill always be there

I get what your saying but this never stuff is a bit too far. We've seen champions make bonehead plays (and fall asleep as you say) down the stretch that has lost games for thier respective teams. Example: Magic Johnson 1984 Finals vs the Celts fell asleep with the 24 second violation and turnovers down the stretch that eventually lost them the finals series. James Worthy threw the ball away to Henderson that got the game into overtime. Isiah had a brain freeze when he threw the ball away to the Bird in 87. Its alot easier to remember the good, but hall of famers have, fell asleep too, in prime time moments. Its not that champions dont fail, but its how they pick themselves up and come back from it. Melo has time to come back from some of the hiccups he may have had on the court.

Also, I tend to agree with Holfresh in terms of not really being on the stage much, and undervaluing what he did out west and losing 3 times to the Spurs, and once to the Lakers in the western conference finals. He lost to better teams, with the possible exception of last year when they lost to the Jazz.

holfresh wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:Think about Karl Malone and Michael Jordan. Both are all-time greats. You cannot deny it. But what seperates Michael from Karl can be summed up in that final game. I'm going by memory right now so correct me if my summary is wrong but it's close enough.

1.) Jazz up one, Karl Malone has the ball up one with about 20 seconds left with a chance to put his team up 3 and most likely force game 7 at home.
2.) Karl Malone gets the ball in the post in one of the most important moments of his career and after thousands of post ups, one of the best passing most aware big men in the history of the game picks that moment to forget to look for the double team. Picks that moment to have a brain lapse
3.) Michael Jordan, hyper aware notices that Karl did not look for the double team. Hyper elite status aware that he has time to get their before Karl will find the open man. The biggest moment of the season and he picks that moment to make the best possible decision again!!! He rips the ball from Malone
4.) Next play Jordan hits the game winning shot to win the title. He didn't over penetrate and barrell into eight guys. He didn't drive into a double team. he didn't jack up a three pointer. He didn't dribble the ball off his knee. He simply took a couple dribbles and pulled up for a simple 15 footer. Always the right decision

During Jordan's career there were thoussands of moments just like that. Every tight playoff game against the Knicks and the Jazz and the Pacers, Jordan repeatedly made the perfect decision, while guys like Ewing and malone and Reggie made that one tiny fatal mistake. Taht's why Jordan has all the titles. Even later in his career when there were dozens of guys that could fly higher then him, he still won. Because he always made the right play.

It's the same thing with Melo today. For as many times as Carmelo(and Amare) have carried us, we've seen them make dozens of bonehead plays during crunch times of crucial games. I'm not even talking about over the course of the season. I'm talking about in the 15 or 20 "must win" games we've had this year. We've seen charges, forced passes, bad shots, missed box outs, losing their men on defense, forgetting to foul. These are things the true superstars just don't do. For them to make the next level(which they clearly can) they have to erase these mistakes. I personally think it's a direct result of not playing college ball for an extensive period of time, but that's just me. I love them both, but reality is reality. Being great is making big plays and also not making dumb ones.

I seen the same bonehead plays, I have also seen him execute down the stretch...He hasn't had the opportunities the others has had on the big stage...I think this is different for Carmelo being in NY...He wanted the big stage and he is trying to prove he was worthy of the big trade...I think he is being over zealous in trying to get everything right and making sure people see him playing hard...I think he is trying too hard to be honest...But he is starting to get what comes along with playing in NY...I'll give it an offseason and a chance to get to know Amare on the court...I think you will see a very different player than you saw in Denver...He has had some 10 assist games here, 17 boards there...U just don't turn stuff like that on...Right now he is trying hard to prove he belongs and it's hurting his game and his decisions...

Holfresh that's the point. The man has been great for us. The man has carried us in important games. I'm not knocking him. That last game was phenomenal. He's hit game winners. He's made heady passes and steals and blocks when it matters. he has made a fan out of me when. I was a sceptic. But you don't get labelled a elite star just for trying hard. After retirement MJ wanted to prove to the world he was still great. He didn't try to hard. He just did it. Shaq wanted to prove it was him not Kobe. So he won in Miami. There was no trying to hard and bonehead mistkes. Kobe wanted to prove he could win without Shaq. He did. These guys did it on bigger stages then _armelo. For the criticims to stop carmelo needs stop trying to hard, stop falling asleep at crucial moments and just get it done. Carmelo and amare are our leaders. Their teammates follow what they do. They should NEVER forget to foul. NEVER barrell into a double/triple team in crunch time. They should never fall asleep and give up a crucial wide open J at the key moments. Its unacceptable to happen even once to one of your stars, let alone repeatedly. During crunch time TD and Jared can be boneheads, those two cannot

That's how you become a true superstar. No doubt they can do it, and I feel good about our chances. But these moments have to be eliminated. No excuses. Otherwise the critics sill always be there

True stars need that guy on the sidelines in their ear as well...One more knock on Melo is that he isn't ready to play a full season on both ends of the court...He should know this, but a coach who he respects needs to tell him get in here in shape to play both ends all year..

My original point was that comparing him to Vince, Arenas and TMac wasn't really an accurate measure....I'm not saying he is Kobe, but he isn't those others either and that's proven...

Disagree 100%. A true star is a coach on the floor. A true star plays both ends of the floor because he knows he has to, not because someone asked him to. A trued star sedts the example for everone else. They don't slack off/ fall asleep on defense while some lesser talent role player busts his ass on both ends of the floor. The also rans are the ones that need motivation and somedone they respect. Amare could learn to be a solid defender over night but he's not paying attention to detail. 8 years into his career and he still can't play the pick and roll and still doesn't box out. Those are his choices. Not some coach. Its nice to be well coached but you don't need it for those things. There are guys on the playground that can't make a layup that can pick up a defensive concept overnight and box out on every play. To win, carmelo and Amare know they need to do these things already so why would they needto wait for a "coach they respect" how do we even know they haven't had respect for their coaches in the first place

Uptown wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:Think about Karl Malone and Michael Jordan. Both are all-time greats. You cannot deny it. But what seperates Michael from Karl can be summed up in that final game. I'm going by memory right now so correct me if my summary is wrong but it's close enough.

1.) Jazz up one, Karl Malone has the ball up one with about 20 seconds left with a chance to put his team up 3 and most likely force game 7 at home.
2.) Karl Malone gets the ball in the post in one of the most important moments of his career and after thousands of post ups, one of the best passing most aware big men in the history of the game picks that moment to forget to look for the double team. Picks that moment to have a brain lapse
3.) Michael Jordan, hyper aware notices that Karl did not look for the double team. Hyper elite status aware that he has time to get their before Karl will find the open man. The biggest moment of the season and he picks that moment to make the best possible decision again!!! He rips the ball from Malone
4.) Next play Jordan hits the game winning shot to win the title. He didn't over penetrate and barrell into eight guys. He didn't drive into a double team. he didn't jack up a three pointer. He didn't dribble the ball off his knee. He simply took a couple dribbles and pulled up for a simple 15 footer. Always the right decision

During Jordan's career there were thoussands of moments just like that. Every tight playoff game against the Knicks and the Jazz and the Pacers, Jordan repeatedly made the perfect decision, while guys like Ewing and malone and Reggie made that one tiny fatal mistake. Taht's why Jordan has all the titles. Even later in his career when there were dozens of guys that could fly higher then him, he still won. Because he always made the right play.

It's the same thing with Melo today. For as many times as Carmelo(and Amare) have carried us, we've seen them make dozens of bonehead plays during crunch times of crucial games. I'm not even talking about over the course of the season. I'm talking about in the 15 or 20 "must win" games we've had this year. We've seen charges, forced passes, bad shots, missed box outs, losing their men on defense, forgetting to foul. These are things the true superstars just don't do. For them to make the next level(which they clearly can) they have to erase these mistakes. I personally think it's a direct result of not playing college ball for an extensive period of time, but that's just me. I love them both, but reality is reality. Being great is making big plays and also not making dumb ones.

I seen the same bonehead plays, I have also seen him execute down the stretch...He hasn't had the opportunities the others has had on the big stage...I think this is different for Carmelo being in NY...He wanted the big stage and he is trying to prove he was worthy of the big trade...I think he is being over zealous in trying to get everything right and making sure people see him playing hard...I think he is trying too hard to be honest...But he is starting to get what comes along with playing in NY...I'll give it an offseason and a chance to get to know Amare on the court...I think you will see a very different player than you saw in Denver...He has had some 10 assist games here, 17 boards there...U just don't turn stuff like that on...Right now he is trying hard to prove he belongs and it's hurting his game and his decisions...

Holfresh that's the point. The man has been great for us. The man has carried us in important games. I'm not knocking him. That last game was phenomenal. He's hit game winners. He's made heady passes and steals and blocks when it matters. he has made a fan out of me when. I was a sceptic. But you don't get labelled a elite star just for trying hard. After retirement MJ wanted to prove to the world he was still great. He didn't try to hard. He just did it. Shaq wanted to prove it was him not Kobe. So he won in Miami. There was no trying to hard and bonehead mistkes. Kobe wanted to prove he could win without Shaq. He did. These guys did it on bigger stages then _armelo. For the criticims to stop carmelo needs stop trying to hard, stop falling asleep at crucial moments and just get it done. Carmelo and amare are our leaders. Their teammates follow what they do. They should NEVER forget to foul. NEVER barrell into a double/triple team in crunch time. They should never fall asleep and give up a crucial wide open J at the key moments. Its unacceptable to happen even once to one of your stars, let alone repeatedly. During crunch time TD and Jared can be boneheads, those two cannot

That's how you become a true superstar. No doubt they can do it, and I feel good about our chances. But these moments have to be eliminated. No excuses. Otherwise the critics sill always be there

I get what your saying but this never stuff is a bit too far. We've seen champions make bonehead plays (and fall asleep as you say) down the stretch that has lost games for thier respective teams. Example: Magic Johnson 1984 Finals vs the Celts fell asleep with the 24 second violation and turnovers down the stretch that eventually lost them the finals series. James Worthy threw the ball away to Henderson that got the game into overtime. Isiah had a brain freeze when he threw the ball away to the Bird in 87. Its alot easier to remember the good, but hall of famers have, fell asleep too, in prime time moments. Its not that champions dont fail, but its how they pick themselves up and come back from it. Melo has time to come back from some of the hiccups he may have had on the court.

Also, I tend to agree with Holfresh in terms of not really being on the stage much, and undervaluing what he did out west and losing 3 times to the Spurs, and once to the Lakers in the western conference finals. He lost to better teams, with the possible exception of last year when they lost to the Jazz.

1.) Stop with the Carmelo can learn and the carmelo can get beter stff. No one says he can't and that isn't. Part of the discussion. We are discussing his current place in history and what he has or hasn't done

2.) Of course never is an exaggeration. The point is you have to thrive for never. That's why detail is the key. I've seen melo in 30 games commit 4 or 5 offensive fouls, fall asleep on d in crunch time multiple times. Take contested awkward shots while double/triple teamed in traffic countless times. I'm not killing him for this. I'm pointing out that eradicating these mistakes will gedt him to the next level. Amare does it. Dwight howard does it. Hell even Lebron fs up more then he should in crunch time. But that's why they aren't Kobe or Michael or even Patrick. They don't just make the occassional prime time misgake. They make a lot of them. They make a ton of great plays, brilliant plays, intelligent plays too. But they make enogh bad ones to prevent the elimination of their critics

nixluva wrote:I just look at how my expectations are when I watch the Celtics. I actually EXPECT them to make the right play. It's not the same feeling I get with the Knicks where i'm just hoping that they do. It's part of the reason the C's won a title. We must continue to try and fill the roster with players that know how to think the game as well as play it from a physical standpoint.

Agreed. Experience may get us to that point some day. Often times teams go from also rans(like when the Pistons got past the Celtics and whne the Bulls finally got past the Pistons) to champions because they get so sick of repeating the same little mistakes that they raise their concentration levels. They get so sick of watching the Celtics run their offense to perfection late in the game with the shot clock running down and getting wide open shots, that they begin to imitate this instead of thinking they can win it on one on one clear outs. This is all part of teh learning process and we may see the Knicks one day become like these heady Celtics. But I'm with you Nixluva, right now, when it comes stretch time, I know that the C's will get good shots, box out, draw a charge, Double team at the perfec time, spread the ball around, run the offense to perfection. While we, will need Carmelo or Amare to impose their personal will on the game in order to overcome the mistakes we are bound to make and then also pray that the C's f up once or twice as well. It happens so rarely and is the obvious reason why they keep beating us in the last 2 minutes of games, even though we outplay them all game long.

Last word on Carmelo and Amare. As a coach I can tolerate my star(that is doing everything else on the floor) forgetting to box out 15 minutes into the game. I can tolerate him relaxing on D and giving up the occasional open shot at minute 25. But it drives me nuts, when crunch time rolls around and these details are still missed. I've seen the Knicks down 1, other team has the ball, 5 seconds on the shot clock and 10-15 seconds left in the game. You know the other team has to shoot. You know that if you get a rebound you have a chance to win it. You know that if you don't get the rebound there is a good chance you lose. The shot goes up. And you look around and TD or Landry are the only guys on the floor boxing out. It amazes me. What will it take to actaully get that player to put a body on someone. What gifts must they receive. What motivational talks must they receive. What moment will they actually pick to do these things. The other night in a tight game under 2 minutes in need of a stop and Carmelo completely loses his man twice. I don't think his man scored but that's not important. What's important is that Carmelo's man is wide open on one side of the court and Carmelo is standing in one spot oblivous and unconcerned that he has no idea where his man is. If you can't choose the final moments to buckle down, when will you choose? Years of bad habits are failing these guys and it's going to be hard to get rid of them. Let us pray

Bonn1997 wrote:

4.) Carmelo has been with us for about 30 games. He's literally carreid us in at least 8 or 9 of those and has hit 2 or 3 game winners. He's put us on his back more times in 30 games then David Lee did in 5 years. He has more game winners then Gallo, Wilson and company combined. How do you watch this guy for 30 games and say he's an "above average player"? Because of shooting statistics?

You're simply judging a different sample than I am. For his career, I call Carmelo an above average starter, which means he's better than about 85% of the players in the league. For the past 30 games, he has played like a true star--a trend that I am skeptical will continue but I really hope it does. For the trade to pay off, it must continue.

why are you using "starter" as part of your criteria? being a starter means different things in different situations.

"above average starter" <-- just seems so arbitrary. so landry fields is in the pool of players you are comparing 'melo to, but lamar odom isn't? why? because on the lakers odom's role is best suited to coming off the bench whereas the Knicks have no better shooting guard and are forced to start a rookie. how does that make sense? no offense man, but "above average starter" just seems like a poorly thought out term.

eViL wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

4.) Carmelo has been with us for about 30 games. He's literally carreid us in at least 8 or 9 of those and has hit 2 or 3 game winners. He's put us on his back more times in 30 games then David Lee did in 5 years. He has more game winners then Gallo, Wilson and company combined. How do you watch this guy for 30 games and say he's an "above average player"? Because of shooting statistics?

You're simply judging a different sample than I am. For his career, I call Carmelo an above average starter, which means he's better than about 85% of the players in the league. For the past 30 games, he has played like a true star--a trend that I am skeptical will continue but I really hope it does. For the trade to pay off, it must continue.

why are you using "starter" as part of your criteria? being a starter means different things in different situations.

"above average starter" <-- just seems so arbitrary. so landry fields is in the pool of players you are comparing 'melo to, but lamar odom isn't? why? because on the lakers odom's role is best suited to coming off the bench whereas the Knicks have no better shooting guard and are forced to start a rookie. how does that make sense? no offense man, but "above average starter" just seems like a poorly thought out term.

i have to reiterate. are you suggesting that every starter in the NBA is better than every reserve? i'm trying to figure out why you are using this "above average starter" designation.

Bonn1997 wrote:

4.) Carmelo has been with us for about 30 games. He's literally carreid us in at least 8 or 9 of those and has hit 2 or 3 game winners. He's put us on his back more times in 30 games then David Lee did in 5 years. He has more game winners then Gallo, Wilson and company combined. How do you watch this guy for 30 games and say he's an "above average player"? Because of shooting statistics?

You're simply judging a different sample than I am. For his career, I call Carmelo an above average starter, which means he's better than about 85% of the players in the league. For the past 30 games, he has played like a true star--a trend that I am skeptical will continue but I really hope it does. For the trade to pay off, it must continue.

85% of the players in the NBA. Let's see 450 NBA players. We place Carmelo in the top 15%. That's about 75 players. So you are saying that there are 75 players in the NBA if given the same opportunity as Carmelo could be the leader of the team and average 25-28 points. Grab 6-8 rebounds. Shoot 46% from the field. 81% from the line? Is this what you are saying?

Are you on crack?

Bippity10 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

4.) Carmelo has been with us for about 30 games. He's literally carreid us in at least 8 or 9 of those and has hit 2 or 3 game winners. He's put us on his back more times in 30 games then David Lee did in 5 years. He has more game winners then Gallo, Wilson and company combined. How do you watch this guy for 30 games and say he's an "above average player"? Because of shooting statistics?

You're simply judging a different sample than I am. For his career, I call Carmelo an above average starter, which means he's better than about 85% of the players in the league. For the past 30 games, he has played like a true star--a trend that I am skeptical will continue but I really hope it does. For the trade to pay off, it must continue.

85% of the players in the NBA. Let's see 450 NBA players. We place Carmelo in the top 15%. That's about 75 players. So you are saying that there are 75 players in the NBA if given the same opportunity as Carmelo could be the leader of the team and average 25-28 points. Grab 6-8 rebounds. Shoot 46% from the field. 81% from the line? Is this what you are saying?

Are you on crack?

worse. he's on self-afflicted statistical megalomania.