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Donnie Walsh will be on with Francesa on WFAN at 4:40
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islesfan
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2/22/2011  8:40 PM
Knickoftime wrote:I'd ask everyone to watch the video with Walsh and D'Antoni.

People don't send people out in front of the media to say things they might not fully believe or thoughts crafted by someone else without being assured of how they will answer questions. This comes in the form of talking points.

Turn on FOX News, CNN or MSNBC and leave it on for 10 minutes to easily recognize when talking point are and ow they are used.

I don't see any common language or spin from either. They seem to be answering questions in the moment, acknowledging the imperfections, and bringing their own personalities to the responses.

Don't see a hint of preparation or prefabricated answers on their part.

This is basketball, not brain surgery. These guys aren't stupid and can get in front of a camera and spin a simple story if they have to.

Did you happen to see Lenny Wilkens' farewell press conference? I bet you ate that up.

If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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foosballnick
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2/22/2011  9:12 PM
For all those claiming that they know based upon the situation or interview.....they are talking out there asses....There is no way to know what Donnie felt about the trade. However we do have experience to draw upon. Facing similar pressure to salary dump in order to make room for a potential LBJ signing - Donnie gave up too much in the Hill trade. Therefore a rational person could surmise that given a pressure situation of potentially losing Melo to the Nets (whether it was a bluff or not) Donnie in fact would be agreeable to do the Melo trade based upon previous experience with the Knicks.
Knickoftime
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2/22/2011  9:18 PM
foosballnick wrote:Facing similar pressure to salary dump in order to make room for a potential LBJ signing - Donnie gave up too much in the Hill trade.

Says who?

foosballnick
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2/22/2011  9:22 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
foosballnick wrote:Facing similar pressure to salary dump in order to make room for a potential LBJ signing - Donnie gave up too much in the Hill trade.

Says who?

Says this board. Only point of reference that matters in this debate.

BRIGGS
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2/22/2011  9:26 PM
foosballnick wrote:For all those claiming that they know based upon the situation or interview.....they are talking out there asses....There is no way to know what Donnie felt about the trade. However we do have experience to draw upon. Facing similar pressure to salary dump in order to make room for a potential LBJ signing - Donnie gave up too much in the Hill trade. Therefore a rational person could surmise that given a pressure situation of potentially losing Melo to the Nets (whether it was a bluff or not) Donnie in fact would be agreeable to do the Melo trade based upon previous experience with the Knicks.

Stop shilling--Walsh hated this deal--every last individual here and hardcore fans knows it. the media knows it--so sit down and SU :)

RIP Crushalot😞
firefly
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2/22/2011  9:27 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:Exactly the kind of response a "plant" would post on UK.

If I were a plant, wouldn't I be posting on RealGM, which, you know... has a LOT more users than UltimateKnicks.com...

Wait, I know, I know...

That's exactly what a plant would say!!

You guys are sharp!

Assimilation is going to be tougher than I originally calculated.

I like this guy. You can stay.

Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
Knickoftime
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2/22/2011  9:29 PM
foosballnick wrote:Says this board. Only point of reference that matters in this debate.

Well then I'd asked the board exactly what they expected Houston to accept to take on Jeffries (who has been mostly dead weight for them since acquired.)

Jordan Hill alone?

Childs2Dudley
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2/22/2011  9:43 PM
firefly wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:Exactly the kind of response a "plant" would post on UK.

If I were a plant, wouldn't I be posting on RealGM, which, you know... has a LOT more users than UltimateKnicks.com...

Wait, I know, I know...

That's exactly what a plant would say!!

You guys are sharp!

Assimilation is going to be tougher than I originally calculated.

I like this guy. You can stay.

He seems to be a douchebag.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
loweyecue
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2/22/2011  9:48 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:
firefly wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:Exactly the kind of response a "plant" would post on UK.

If I were a plant, wouldn't I be posting on RealGM, which, you know... has a LOT more users than UltimateKnicks.com...

Wait, I know, I know...

That's exactly what a plant would say!!

You guys are sharp!

Assimilation is going to be tougher than I originally calculated.

I like this guy. You can stay.

He seems to be a douchebag.

That settles it, he stays!!

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Knickoftime
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2/22/2011  11:19 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:He seems to be a douchebag.

You don't know the half of it...

Uptown
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2/22/2011  11:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/22/2011  11:30 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
foosballnick wrote:For all those claiming that they know based upon the situation or interview.....they are talking out there asses....There is no way to know what Donnie felt about the trade. However we do have experience to draw upon. Facing similar pressure to salary dump in order to make room for a potential LBJ signing - Donnie gave up too much in the Hill trade. Therefore a rational person could surmise that given a pressure situation of potentially losing Melo to the Nets (whether it was a bluff or not) Donnie in fact would be agreeable to do the Melo trade based upon previous experience with the Knicks.

Stop shilling--Walsh hated this deal--every last individual here and hardcore fans knows it. the media knows it--so sit down and SU :)


So you are going to believe phantom sources and people who spend half thier days posting on sports forums over Walsh own words? Words from a man who most say has great integrity, is honest and professional. At this point, anyone still spewing this garbage is just looking for reasons to get upset and pick at the franchise.

CrushAlot
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2/22/2011  11:28 PM
Isola just said on Daily News Live that he thinks Walsh is done because of this deal. He has said it all day but also pointed out that Walsh turns 70 in a week. I hope he is wrong but I am pretty sure Donnie is just trying to be a stand up guy right now and will be gone at the end of the year.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Markji
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2/22/2011  11:32 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
foosballnick wrote:Says this board. Only point of reference that matters in this debate.

Well then I'd asked the board exactly what they expected Houston to accept to take on Jeffries (who has been mostly dead weight for them since acquired.)

Jordan Hill alone?

I answered that earlier when you asked. You didn't reply.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Markji
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2/22/2011  11:36 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/22/2011  11:49 PM
K-O-T - my response to the Houston trade

2/22/2011 7:36 AM LAST EDITED: 2/22/2011 8:08 AM

Markji wrote:
I made numerous posts that it was Dolan who forced the TMac trade and gave up way too much. And, as we know, he is advised by Isiah. This trade also, same thing. Isn't the whole thing obvious?

Knickoftime - What do you regard as equitable for Houston to receive in order to take on Jefferies contract?

Since this is now old, old news I'll just answer. There were 100 threads on this so no need to re-iternate them all.
TMac had a $20+ mil salary; hadn't played in 1 1/2 years; had major knee surgery; was disgruntled; the Rockets wouldn't even have him practice with the team. Nobdody in the league wanted him and he wasn't really ready to play many minutes at a quick paced NBA level.
We had to get rid of Jeffries $6.8 mil salary for 2010. Jeffries was playing consistant minutes and was a good defender. Terrible on offense. A good team guy. Positive in locker room.

A fair trade - giving the Rockets Jeffries; $3 mil; plus the #8 seed in the draft in Jordan Hill should have been enough if they knew how to negotiate. We took TMac and his high salary off their hands. Adding all of the extra picks is an Isiah/Dolan move. The picks are assets which were treated very poorly. If we had the 2012 1st round pick, we wouldn't have needed to give our 2014 1st round pick now.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
BasketballJones
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2/22/2011  11:38 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Isola just said on Daily News Live that he thinks Walsh is done because of this deal. He has said it all day but also pointed out that Walsh turns 70 in a week. I hope he is wrong but I am pretty sure Donnie is just trying to be a stand up guy right now and will be gone at the end of the year.

I'm pretty sure that Walsh does in fact turn 70 next week. According to Wikipedia, he was born March 1, 1941

https:// It's not so hard.
Markji
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2/22/2011  11:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/22/2011  11:42 PM
I know you won't accept this as it is making fun of the entire process, but the similarities between the 2 trades are striking. My belief, is that Dolan got involved and would do whatever it took to make the deal irregardless of what had to be given up. Yes it is my opinion, as are my posts on this recent deal. But putting pieces together to solve a puzzle is fun. And the solution that Dolan was involved and caused us to give way too much makes the most sense. All of the pieces fit.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
CrushAlot
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2/22/2011  11:41 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
foosballnick wrote:Says this board. Only point of reference that matters in this debate.

Well then I'd asked the board exactly what they expected Houston to accept to take on Jeffries (who has been mostly dead weight for them since acquired.)

Jordan Hill alone?


Maybe just a pick or maybe just Hill or maybe just a pick and the right to swap picks. Hill is starting to play very well for Houston. He essentially lost his rookie year and when he was traded to Houston Battier noted this fact last year. Hill was mishandled in NY. If he got the love Moz got here he might still be in NY or the Knicks might still have a first round pick. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Knickoftime
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2/23/2011  12:34 AM
Markji wrote:A fair trade - giving the Rockets Jeffries; $3 mil; plus the #8 seed in the draft in Jordan Hill should have been enough if they knew how to negotiate. We took TMac and his high salary off their hands. Adding all of the extra picks is an Isiah/Dolan move. The picks are assets which were treated very poorly. If we had the 2012 1st round pick, we wouldn't have needed to give our 2014 1st round pick now.

I'll get to why this is relevant in a sec. But that said, Houston had to pay Jeffries this year, to the tune of $6.8m. Plus his salary alone puts him approximately $3.5m over the luxury tax threshold, which is another #3.5m added to the bill. That's a pretty high "take a flyer on Jordan Hill tax" if you ask me.

Also recall Houston worked NY into a trade already developed with Sacramento and presumably diverted Sergio Rodriquez their way. Given the swap is looking irrelevant, and anticipating the position of the 2012 pick, it just seems like a little overreaction to question the trade.

I also think it's fairly comical for fans of one team to assume with such certainty what the front office of another team would ultimately, as if you can determine their opinions and predict their actions based on YOUR opinion of fair value. More times is wasted on fan forums on this than anything else, but a wide margin.

That all said. THIS is what intrigues me.

A while back, Donnie Walsh gave an interview and said of the trade that he generally doesn't like making financial trades, doesn't like trading drat picks, and while the trade worked out and would do it again, said he'd always have second thoughts about it.

This has been interpreted since that Walsh was making it publicly known he didn't like the trade and regretted it, with the implication it was a Dolan trade.

Fast forward to today, and Donnie Walsh fully endorses the 'Melo trade, and directly rejects the idea Dolan did it himself and he wasn't involved and approved.

But THIS too interpreted as Donnie Walsh just being a good soldier.

He reacts in two entirely different manners, but to some fans, his different reactions equal the same exact thing.

I just can't ignore the selective, fluid logic involved.

martin
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2/23/2011  12:45 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
Markji wrote:A fair trade - giving the Rockets Jeffries; $3 mil; plus the #8 seed in the draft in Jordan Hill should have been enough if they knew how to negotiate. We took TMac and his high salary off their hands. Adding all of the extra picks is an Isiah/Dolan move. The picks are assets which were treated very poorly. If we had the 2012 1st round pick, we wouldn't have needed to give our 2014 1st round pick now.

I'll get to why this is relevant in a sec. But that said, Houston had to pay Jeffries this year, to the tune of $6.8m. Plus his salary alone puts him approximately $3.5m over the luxury tax threshold, which is another #3.5m added to the bill. That's a pretty high "take a flyer on Jordan Hill tax" if you ask me.

Also recall Houston worked NY into a trade already developed with Sacramento and presumably diverted Sergio Rodriquez their way. Given the swap is looking irrelevant, and anticipating the position of the 2012 pick, it just seems like a little overreaction to question the trade.

I also think it's fairly comical for fans of one team to assume with such certainty what the front office of another team would ultimately, as if you can determine their opinions and predict their actions based on YOUR opinion of fair value. More times is wasted on fan forums on this than anything else, but a wide margin.

That all said. THIS is what intrigues me.

A while back, Donnie Walsh gave an interview and said of the trade that he generally doesn't like making financial trades, doesn't like trading drat picks, and while the trade worked out and would do it again, said he'd always have second thoughts about it.

This has been interpreted since that Walsh was making it publicly known he didn't like the trade and regretted it, with the implication it was a Dolan trade.

Fast forward to today, and Donnie Walsh fully endorses the 'Melo trade, and directly rejects the idea Dolan did it himself and he wasn't involved and approved.

But THIS too interpreted as Donnie Walsh just being a good soldier.

He reacts in two entirely different manners, but to some fans, his different reactions equal the same exact thing.

I just can't ignore the selective, fluid logic involved.

I never got a whiff of that implication. I both thought and got the sense from media that he meant that he didn't like the trade cause he 1) had to give up future assets and 2) had to negotiate with his back against a wall with the upcoming 2010 Summer of Fun. Never that it was a Dolan trade.

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Knickoftime
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2/23/2011  12:56 AM
martin wrote:I never got a whiff of that implication. I both thought and got the sense from media that he meant that he didn't like the trade cause he 1) had to give up future assets and 2) had to negotiate with his back against a wall with the upcoming 2010 Summer of Fun. Never that it was a Dolan trade.

Fair enough. This was raised in response to this.

"There is no way to know what Donnie felt about the trade. However we do have experience to draw upon. Facing similar pressure to salary dump in order to make room for a potential LBJ signing - Donnie gave up too much in the Hill trade. Therefore a rational person could surmise that given a pressure situation of potentially losing Melo to the Nets (whether it was a bluff or not) Donnie in fact would be agreeable to do the Melo trade based upon previous experience with the Knicks."

I could be wrong, but the implication I drew from this was Dolan was the "pressure" behind both trades.

Donnie Walsh will be on with Francesa on WFAN at 4:40

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