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Hahn reporting that Denver will trade Melo to NJ if Knicks don't include Mosgov
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VDesai
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2/20/2011  11:30 PM
crzymdups wrote:
VDesai wrote:And as the world turns....

Chris_Broussard Sources say Den has not given NYK ultimatum that if Mozgov's not in deal, they'll trade him to NJ

Are Broussard's "sources" Alan Hahn's twitter feed? Hahn said that an hour or more ago.

Read it again and look for the word "not."
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MSG3
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2/20/2011  11:30 PM
Broussard saying the Mozgov ultimatum is false.
crzymdups
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2/20/2011  11:32 PM
VDesai wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
VDesai wrote:And as the world turns....

Chris_Broussard Sources say Den has not given NYK ultimatum that if Mozgov's not in deal, they'll trade him to NJ

Are Broussard's "sources" Alan Hahn's twitter feed? Hahn said that an hour or more ago.

Read it again and look for the word "not."

ah, the clever ESPN use of the double negative. sorry, i usually read english.

¿ △ ?
loweyecue
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2/20/2011  11:35 PM
Finestrg wrote:
VDesai wrote:Knicks shouldn't cave....and its not necessarily about Mozgov.

Let's try to keep this in perspective: Mozgov is soooooooooo not a big deal people..Dude just isn't that good..Period..5 years from now, maybe we'll have a halfway decent backup center..MAYBE...I'd include him just to clear his future salary and consider it a blessing..With Mozgov gone, I'd immediately call up Marcus Cousin from the D-League and then draft Keith Benson with our first round pick this summer..Benson does a lot of learning next year but once Turiaf comes off the cap Benson will be ready to contribute more in year 2 (hopefully he gets slightly bigger/stronger---that'll be up to Greg Brittenham) and then you have a Cousin/Benson C combination that would FAR EXCEED what we have there right now. That's plenty of skill and size in the middle next to Amar'e..

HOWEVER -- I'm so annoyed at Denver's escalating demands...BEYOND ANNOYED in fact..It's beyond absurd now..Lemme see if I follow this: The Russian comes out and admits that his recent involvement was solely predicated on driving the price up for NY (basically admitting his team never really had a chance to trade for this guy themselves), Melo all but said he won't go to Jersey, the writing's pretty much on the wall that he doesn't want to go back to Denver (do they even want him back now?) AND YET Denver keeps asking for more??? Jesus, what a set of balls on these a-holes!!! I'm ready to step away from this and call everyone's bluff already..Melo's and Denver's..SOOOO PISSED OFF with the way Melo has handled this. Dude's acting like he couldn't give a SHIT what shape the Knicks will be in once he gets here. Man, what a turn off. I'm done commenting on this stupidity until it goes down..If it goes down..Goodnight all.

Like he said its not about Mozgov, Denver is not negotiting in good faith. We dont do business with doublecrossing slimeballs.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
blkexec
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2/20/2011  11:35 PM
crzymdups wrote:
VDesai wrote:WojYahooNBA A front office executive with knowledge of 'Melo talks between Denver-New York says: "Knicks won't lose this deal over a reserve big man."


This mean Knicks are gonna have no problem including Turiaf?

Once we include Mozgov, Denver will demand Fields.

Denver will keep demanding players, until an hour before the deadline.

I would....when you have a dumb rich HO, thats addicted to getting focked in the azz (Dolan).

Why not ask for everybody on the team? Especially if you don't want to trade your star.

I don't hate on Denver or Melo...I hate on Dolan for being used and abused by everybody! (Nets, Denver, Isiah, Melo and Melo's agent)

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Paladin55
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2/20/2011  11:36 PM
crzymdups wrote:
VDesai wrote:WojYahooNBA A front office executive with knowledge of 'Melo talks between Denver-New York says: "Knicks won't lose this deal over a reserve big man."


This mean Knicks are gonna have no problem including Turiaf?

Once we include Mozgov, Denver will demand Fields.

I'll bet they already asked for Mosguv AND Fields, and when the Knicks turned them down they said there would be no trade without Mosguv.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
BlueSeats
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2/20/2011  11:38 PM
Paladin55 wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
VDesai wrote:WojYahooNBA A front office executive with knowledge of 'Melo talks between Denver-New York says: "Knicks won't lose this deal over a reserve big man."


This mean Knicks are gonna have no problem including Turiaf?

Once we include Mozgov, Denver will demand Fields.

I'll bet they already asked for Mosguv AND Fields, and when the Knicks turned them down they said there would be no trade without Mosguv.

exactly. i don't gt why people keep reacting as though denver is escalating their demands. when have we ever known their full demands?

I would not include mozgod though, fwiw.
VDesai
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2/20/2011  11:43 PM
STEIN_LINE_HQ DEN definitely wants Mozgov. Knicks definitely DON'T want to include Mozgov. But ultimatums three days before deadline too easily tuned out
colorfl1
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2/20/2011  11:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/20/2011  11:48 PM
I look at what the Knicks would need to do to be a championship team, you may need to look at the Celtics when they put together the big 3.

Garnet = Stat
Pierce = Melo
Allen = nobody
Rondo = nobody

I feel we should hold onto Galo and develop him into a Ray Alan like threat.
Then we could make a run at one of the All Star PGs in 2012

Problem with a free agent strategy devoid of developing your own talent is that the Knicks did not start off with a Paul Pierce quality all-star.

Similarly, the heat started off with D Wade.
The Lakers started off with Kobe

etc.

I feel that if the Knicks try to go down this road they will fall short due to cap considerations. You cannot build a championship calibre team that will be a threat to the Heat, the Lakers and other elite teams without developing homegrown all star talent.

The Celtics had Pierce and developed Rondo into an All Star.

I feel we need to develop some of our own talent and cannot rely on fielding free agents and fodder, it will not prove enough.

That is why I cringe about giving away Gallo, Randolph, Chandler and Felton, because we will always be a step behind if we do not develop at least one All-Star from our own developing talent pool.
Knickoftime
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2/21/2011  12:03 AM
colorfl1 wrote:I feel we should hold onto Galo and develop him into a Ray Alan like threat.

That is why I cringe about giving away Gallo, Randolph, Chandler and Felton, because we will always be a step behind if we do not develop at least one All-Star from our own developing talent pool.

Dude, who do you you think you need to convince.

There isn't a Knicks fan alive that wouldn't prefer getting 'Melo and keeping Gallinari.

There are just people who don't think that's possible.
KNICKSdom
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2/21/2011  12:07 AM
Phuck Denver. They are making a mockery of this Melo to NY deal and keep asking for more. Why let Denver continue the ****slapping? Dolan need to let the old man do his job before he looks more silly than he already is.
Knicks are happening and have a Unicorn.
Paladin55
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2/21/2011  12:13 AM
nixluva wrote:In the end Timo is about the future. He's not ready now and he's not going to be the difference between contending this year or not. This is a starting point. I don't like the deal, but at the same time if this is it, I might have to suck it up and do the deal. It's not like you can't find an adequate big man to replace what Timo gives us now. It's not about this season. It's about the next 5 seasons. Maybe they can work something out to add in Nene. IDK anymore. This is just turning into a crazy deal. What I do know is that the idea of Timo is better than the actual player he is right now. There's a reason we're still looking for big man help.

How is this a "starting point?" The Nuggets have been asking for more and more since these talks began. What exactly constitutes a "starting point"- whatever the last package Denver asks for from us?

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
nixluva
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2/21/2011  12:16 AM
Paladin55 wrote:
nixluva wrote:In the end Timo is about the future. He's not ready now and he's not going to be the difference between contending this year or not. This is a starting point. I don't like the deal, but at the same time if this is it, I might have to suck it up and do the deal. It's not like you can't find an adequate big man to replace what Timo gives us now. It's not about this season. It's about the next 5 seasons. Maybe they can work something out to add in Nene. IDK anymore. This is just turning into a crazy deal. What I do know is that the idea of Timo is better than the actual player he is right now. There's a reason we're still looking for big man help.

How is this a "starting point?" The Nuggets have been asking for more and more since these talks began. What exactly constitutes a "starting point"- whatever the last package Denver asks for from us?

I was talking about the new core of the team. It used to include Chan and Gallo but now it's STAT and Melo if we make the trade. They're the most important elements of the team and it all starts with them. You could switch any number of similarly skilled role players and the results would be about the same. That's the reason to make the deal.
martin
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2/21/2011  12:22 AM
nixluva wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:
nixluva wrote:In the end Timo is about the future. He's not ready now and he's not going to be the difference between contending this year or not. This is a starting point. I don't like the deal, but at the same time if this is it, I might have to suck it up and do the deal. It's not like you can't find an adequate big man to replace what Timo gives us now. It's not about this season. It's about the next 5 seasons. Maybe they can work something out to add in Nene. IDK anymore. This is just turning into a crazy deal. What I do know is that the idea of Timo is better than the actual player he is right now. There's a reason we're still looking for big man help.

How is this a "starting point?" The Nuggets have been asking for more and more since these talks began. What exactly constitutes a "starting point"- whatever the last package Denver asks for from us?

I was talking about the new core of the team. It used to include Chan and Gallo but now it's STAT and Melo if we make the trade. They're the most important elements of the team and it all starts with them. You could switch any number of similarly skilled role players and the results would be about the same. That's the reason to make the deal.

Could you? Please name them for me. A couple of 16/5.5 guys who are 23 who have range on the shots. Who are they and how do the Knicks acquire them within the next few years and also within the context of their salary cap? Any examples will do. Also note that NY will have to replace a retiring Billups.

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Paladin55
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2/21/2011  12:32 AM
nixluva wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:
nixluva wrote:In the end Timo is about the future. He's not ready now and he's not going to be the difference between contending this year or not. This is a starting point. I don't like the deal, but at the same time if this is it, I might have to suck it up and do the deal. It's not like you can't find an adequate big man to replace what Timo gives us now. It's not about this season. It's about the next 5 seasons. Maybe they can work something out to add in Nene. IDK anymore. This is just turning into a crazy deal. What I do know is that the idea of Timo is better than the actual player he is right now. There's a reason we're still looking for big man help.

How is this a "starting point?" The Nuggets have been asking for more and more since these talks began. What exactly constitutes a "starting point"- whatever the last package Denver asks for from us?

I was talking about the new core of the team. It used to include Chan and Gallo but now it's STAT and Melo if we make the trade. They're the most important elements of the team and it all starts with them. You could switch any number of similarly skilled role players and the results would be about the same. That's the reason to make the deal.

You are still going to have the uncertainty of the new CBA, and the youthful depth you have built up will quickly vanish. You will have stripped any semblance of defense from your team, given away a young 7'1" center who is acknowledged as a hard worker, exchanged a 26 yr old pg for one 8 years older, and given away two solid young players in Gallo and Wilson, along with Randolph for nothing and your own 2014 #1, not a #1 you thought you could trade for.

This is not a starting point, unless you call jumping off a bridge into the East River a start.

Time to stop the madness.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Allanfan20
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2/21/2011  12:33 AM
I think I lost 70 lbs from vomiting, as a result of all of these rumors. Felton for Billups alone is soooooooooo f'ed up and that would 100% handcuff for the future. Fuck that. And fuck Denver. They should feel so lucky that they get just a couple of pieces because Melo will end up just walking in the Summer. I can't believe any team would fall to their demands. If the Knicks do, I'm going to be so deflated as a fan. There'd be no way we would compete for a championship. Not a single way in hell.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
nixluva
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2/21/2011  12:35 AM
martin wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:
nixluva wrote:In the end Timo is about the future. He's not ready now and he's not going to be the difference between contending this year or not. This is a starting point. I don't like the deal, but at the same time if this is it, I might have to suck it up and do the deal. It's not like you can't find an adequate big man to replace what Timo gives us now. It's not about this season. It's about the next 5 seasons. Maybe they can work something out to add in Nene. IDK anymore. This is just turning into a crazy deal. What I do know is that the idea of Timo is better than the actual player he is right now. There's a reason we're still looking for big man help.

How is this a "starting point?" The Nuggets have been asking for more and more since these talks began. What exactly constitutes a "starting point"- whatever the last package Denver asks for from us?

I was talking about the new core of the team. It used to include Chan and Gallo but now it's STAT and Melo if we make the trade. They're the most important elements of the team and it all starts with them. You could switch any number of similarly skilled role players and the results would be about the same. That's the reason to make the deal.

Could you? Please name them for me. A couple of 16/5.5 guys who are 23 who have range on the shots. Who are they and how do the Knicks acquire them within the next few years and also within the context of their salary cap? Any examples will do. Also note that NY will have to replace a retiring Billups.

We're not actually trying to replace 2 16.5 guys. Melo is taking the place of one of them. So you want a kid that has at least similar skills, they don't have to match up exactly, that's why I said similarly. Melo is better than Chandler already, so the guy we get to replace Chan, needs to only be close in production. Don't tell me that there aren't any guys that fit that description.

2011 Free Agents:
Shooting Guard
(name, team – 2010-11 salary – status)

Ray Allen, Boston Celtics - $10.0 million – Player Option ($10.0 million)
Jason Richardson, Orlando Magic - $14.4 million - Unrestricted
Jamal Crawford, Atlanta Hawks - $10.1 million – Unrestricted
Arron Afflalo, Denver Nuggets - $2.0 million – Restricted ($2.9 million Qualifying Offer)
Wilson Chandler, New York Knicks - $2.1 million – Restricted ($3.1 million Qualifying Offer)
Shannon Brown, L.A. Lakers - $2.1 million – Player Option ($2.4 million)
C.J. Miles, Utah Jazz - $3.7 million – Team Option ($3.7 million)
J.R. Smith, Denver Nuggets - $6.0 million – Unrestricted
DeShawn Stevenson, Dallas Mavericks - $4.2 million – Unrestricted
Mike Dunleavy, Indiana Pacers - $10.6 million – Unrestricted
Chris Douglas-Roberts, Milwaukee Bucks - $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Nick Young, Washington Wizards - $2.6 million – Restricted ($3.7 million Qualifying Offer)
Sonny Weems, Toronto Raptors - $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Mo Evans, Atlanta Hawks - $2.5 million – Unrestricted
Daequan Cook, Oklahoma City Thunder - $2.2 million – Restricted ($3.1 million Qualifying Offer)
Anthony Parker, Cleveland Cavaliers - $2.9 million – Unrestricted
Eddie House, Miami HEAT - $1.4 million – Player Option ($1.4 million)
Marquis Daniels, Boston Celtics - $2.5 million – Unrestricted
Marcus Thornton, New Orleans Hornets - $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Morris Peterson, Oklahoma City Thunder - $6.2 million - Unrestricted
Roger Mason, New York Knicks - $1.4 million - Unrestricted
Marco Belinelli, New Orleans Hornets - $2.4 million – Restricted ($3.4 million Qualifying Offer)
Gary Forbes, Denver Nuggets - $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Michael Redd, Milwaukee Bucks - $18.3 million - Unrestricted
Delonte West, Boston Celtics - $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Stephen Graham, New Jersey Nets - $1.0 million – Team Option ($1.1 million)
Dominic McGuire, Charlotte Bobcats - $0.9 million – Unrestricted
Alonzo Gee, Washington Wizards - $0.6 million – Unrestricted*
Jeremy Lin, Golden State Warriors - $0.5 million – Team Option ($0.8 million)
Von Wafer, Boston Celtics - $0.9 million – Unrestricted

Small Forward
(name, team – 2010-11 salary – status)

Carmelo Anthony, Denver Nuggets - $17.1 million – Early Termination Option ($18.5 million)
Caron Butler, Dallas Mavericks - $10.8 million – Unrestricted
Thaddeus Young, Philadelphia 76ers - $2.9 million – Restricted ($4.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Grant Hill, Phoenix Suns - $3.2 million - Unrestricted
Tayshaun Prince, Detroit Pistons – $11.1 million – Unrestricted
Shane Battier, Houston Rockets - $7.4 million - Unrestricted
Reggie Williams, Golden State Warriors - $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
James Jones, Miami HEAT - $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Al Thornton, Washington Wizards - $2.8 million – Restricted ($3.9 million Qualifying Offer)
Jason Kapono, Philadelphia 76ers - $6.6 million - Unrestricted
Corey Brewer, Minnesota Timberwolves - $3.7 million – Restricted ($5.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Josh Howard, Washington Wizards - $3.0 million - Unrestricted
Rasual Butler, L.A. Clippers - $2.4 million - Unrestricted
Jamario Moon, Cleveland Cavaliers - $3.0 million – Unrestricted
Julian Wright, Toronto Raptors - $2.9 million – Restricted ($4.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Peja Stojakovic, Toronto Raptors - $14.3 million - Unrestricted
Earl Clark, Orlando Magic - $1.9 million – Unrestricted
Kelenna Azubuike, New York Knicks - $3.3 million - Unrestricted
Quinton Ross, New Jersey Nets - $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Shawne Williams, New York Knicks - $0.9 million – Unrestricted
Ime Udoka, San Antonio Spurs - $0.9 million - Unrestricted
Vladimir Radmanovic, Golden State Warriors - $6.9 million - Unrestricted
Joey Graham, Cleveland Cavaliers - $1.0 million – Team Option ($1.1 million)
Jawad Williams, Cleveland Cavaliers - $1.1 million – Unrestricted*
Rodney Carney, Golden State Warriors - $0.9 million – Unrestricted
Jeremy Evans, Utah Jazz - $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
DaJuan Summers, Detroit Pistons - $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Damien Wilkins, Atlanta Hawks - $0.8 million – Unrestricted
Steve Novak, Dallas Mavericks - $0.9 million - Unrestricted
Derrick Brown, Charlotte Bobcats - $0.7 million – Unrestricted*
Darnell Jackson, Sacramento Kings - $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Cartier Martin, Washington Wizards - $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Knickoftime
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2/21/2011  12:39 AM
martin wrote:Could you? Please name them for me. A couple of 16/5.5 guys who are 23 who have range on the shots. Who are they and how do the Knicks acquire them within the next few years and also within the context of their salary cap? Any examples will do. Also note that NY will have to replace a retiring Billups.

Well, one of them is named Carmelo Anthony, who is a 25/7.6 guy, and if Amare Stoudemire is any indication, his value goes beyond the pure stats.
martin
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2/21/2011  12:39 AM

^ nixluva. It would have been easier for you to just link me to nba.com and say, "NBA players are listed on that website, chose".

That's a garbage list.

Name players that will address defense, backup PG, Starting PG, bench. And know that you have about $12M to spend.

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martin
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2/21/2011  12:40 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:Could you? Please name them for me. A couple of 16/5.5 guys who are 23 who have range on the shots. Who are they and how do the Knicks acquire them within the next few years and also within the context of their salary cap? Any examples will do. Also note that NY will have to replace a retiring Billups.

Well, one of them is named Carmelo Anthony, who is a 25/7.6 guy, and if Amare Stoudemire is any indication, his value goes beyond the pure stats.

not the context of what I was asking. try again. Nix was saying that Gallo/Chandler are replaceable after the Melo trade.

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Hahn reporting that Denver will trade Melo to NJ if Knicks don't include Mosgov
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