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Sure, Gut The Team And Throw In Landry Fields While You're At It
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eViL
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2/15/2011  12:54 PM
wait for melo in free agency. if we trade all our assets to get him, how do we upgrade once he's here? that's the thing I never see addressed. all i ever see is that melo is better than gallo and chandler and fields combined. yeah, no sh!t. but once he's on the team and we're capped out, what are we adding? did everyone forget that we'll be in the same conference with the heat for the next 4 years. here we are, poised to pick the guy up for nothing and we're clamoring to waste valuable assets on him. terrible. it's gone as far as people making up hypothetical new CBA provisions to try and sway us to trade. really? c'mon son. oh yeah, he's gonna sign with denver now because of the uncertainty of the CBA. yeah, that's it. under the new CBA, if there's no franchise tag, then they'll just squeeze down player salaries so far that melo will be getting paid $500,000 a year. he can't risk it. please. we all know superstars will get paid superstar money. that ain't changing. a smart team waits. and a smart player, if melo is one, realizes his new team will need their assets to use in another trade to fetch the 3rd guy (you know? the guy that isn't a free agent this summer).
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tkf
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2/15/2011  12:55 PM
misterearl wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:
Nalod wrote:Boils down to faith. Faith has no guarantees.

Exactly. There are no guarantees. I just don't see the incremental growth amounting to anything. You see differently. But I like the teams chances with Melo + Amare because other than Amare, we have a bunch of role players.

No incremental growth? When was the last time they were over .500 in the month of February?

Do you not recognize the upgrade in talent? Felton over Duhon? AMare over Dlee? Moz over Jerome James? Fields over Larry hughes? Chandler over TT? Chandler over his game last year? Gallo over his game last year?
TD over Nate?

We added 10 new players to the roster.

Chemistry? Accountability? Leadership? Players pulling for each other? We lead the league in blocked shots!


Im sorry you don't see it. Its been quite enjoyable actually.

Subtract the passion, cosmopolitan appeal and friendly demeanor of of Gallinari on his trip to Africa with Turiaf.

Subtract the tats, the quiet strength, the inside toughness and defensive tenacity of The Mayor.

Subtract the honesty, winning attitude, leadership, dogged determination of Ray Felton.

Subtract the potential first round draft pick that would bring a 6'11 Lithuanian center

Subtract the camaraderie and friendships, just starting to congeal over a short period of months, battle tested on the first west coast trip where they discovered a common voice.

Subtract the incredible potential of Landry Fields, who plays nothing like a rookie is supposed to play and who you would be honored to have your daughter marry.

Subtract the glue, the laughter, the practical jokes we missed and the experience of traveling as a family.

Then pick up the pieces with the guys left behind, and tell them to be loyal to the organization.

Good luck with that.

very well put..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
BRIGGS
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2/15/2011  1:00 PM
Wake me up in 10 days and tell me what happened.
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Bippity10
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2/15/2011  1:12 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Wake me up in 10 days and tell me what happened.

That's all I'm saying. After the Lebron nonsense I have no interest in all this rumor nonsense. I'll know what happened after a trade goes through

I just hope that people will like me
fishmike
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2/15/2011  1:21 PM
eViL wrote:wait for melo in free agency. if we trade all our assets to get him, how do we upgrade once he's here? that's the thing I never see addressed. all i ever see is that melo is better than gallo and chandler and fields combined. yeah, no sh!t. but once he's on the team and we're capped out, what are we adding? did everyone forget that we'll be in the same conference with the heat for the next 4 years. here we are, poised to pick the guy up for nothing and we're clamoring to waste valuable assets on him. terrible. it's gone as far as people making up hypothetical new CBA provisions to try and sway us to trade. really? c'mon son. oh yeah, he's gonna sign with denver now because of the uncertainty of the CBA. yeah, that's it. under the new CBA, if there's no franchise tag, then they'll just squeeze down player salaries so far that melo will be getting paid $500,000 a year. he can't risk it. please. we all know superstars will get paid superstar money. that ain't changing. a smart team waits. and a smart player, if melo is one, realizes his new team will need their assets to use in another trade to fetch the 3rd guy (you know? the guy that isn't a free agent this summer).
you not being fair to the 3 posters who have address this topic 10,000x

They have said several times "you go out and get the great role players."

And if there is any doubt about who are these guys your getting

"role players are always available"

See? Problem solved

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Silverfuel
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2/15/2011  1:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/15/2011  1:44 PM
eViL wrote:wait for melo in free agency. if we trade all our assets to get him, how do we upgrade once he's here?

Nobody wants all our assets traded away for Melo. Donnie will not let that happen.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
fishmike
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2/15/2011  1:51 PM
Silverfuel wrote:
eViL wrote:wait for melo in free agency. if we trade all our assets to get him, how do we upgrade once he's here?

Nobody wants all our assets traded away for Melo. Donnie will not let that happen.

your wrong! There's a handful of people with about 80k posts between them that say trade whatever it takes for Melo because the rest is easy.

I thought you were suggesting some of the same... glad to see the above.

I think if the Knicks really did turn down a Melo deal it will happen. If they got that close I think he's a Knick after the AS break. Some wont like the deal, some will love it, some will be in between.

Even more important than Melo to me is Walsh. If he makes a trade for Melo you know he's got a long term plan. He's also done a great job getting Mos, Douglas, Felton, Williams, Fields... for nothing or well below market value. There is no way he will keep up that run of success... no GM can, but if anyone can find guys like that is Walsh. We will certainly need them. In Donnie we trust

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
GoNyGoNyGo
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2/15/2011  2:24 PM
The more I think about it, the more I want to stick with the young core that are developing. Wait until July...I would hate to Lose a Gallo and or Fields or Mozgov. IF its Chandler, Curry, a #1 and filler, that is fine but nothing more.

I actually think the longer it goes on, the more DW will hold out. The pressure goes to Denver because Karl as much as admitted that Melo will be gone.

Paladin55
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2/15/2011  2:25 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I also think that if Gallo is traded, he will go back to Italy when his contract expires.

A possibility.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
misterearl
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2/15/2011  2:33 PM
Not The Wayback Machine...

A Quick Trip In The Spalding Crystal Basketball Soon Forward Machine!

(Set the dial for November 2011)

G Everybody loves Raymond Felton, in the role of leader and attitude adjuster
G Employee of the Month Landry Fields, following in the role of John Havlicek, with a bead of epoxy glue and averaging a double double
F 6'9 Carmelo Anthony, in the role of Mister Big Shot, without the Doug Christie hand signals thank you
F 6'10 Amare Stoudemire, in the role of Spencer Haywood, with a bit more style, "and one!"
C 6'11 240 pound Lithuanian Jonas Valanciunas or The most interesting second year in the world, Timofey Mosgov, I don't care which one, in the role of paint protector

Any of the following are acceptable

F Sixth Man Danilo Gallinari, in the role of insurance man at forward
G a Rucker League/ Summer League point guard to be named later in the role of Dean Meminger
G/F Shawne Williams, in the role of three point specialist extraordinaire
F Anthony Randolph, in the role of plastic man
C Ronny Turiaf in the role of ML Carr as cheerleader

That's eleven

once a knick always a knick
fishmike
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2/15/2011  2:36 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:The more I think about it, the more I want to stick with the young core that are developing. Wait until July...I would hate to Lose a Gallo and or Fields or Mozgov. IF its Chandler, Curry, a #1 and filler, that is fine but nothing more.

I actually think the longer it goes on, the more DW will hold out. The pressure goes to Denver because Karl as much as admitted that Melo will be gone.

because like me you see the value and enjoyment in drafting a player (or signing in Mos) and watching them develop over the years as the team develops and wins.

That being said Melo is a guy who will be easy to embrace. He wants to be a Knick and a NYer. Thats a big plus out of the gate.

For me you gotta keep Mosgov (there arent better center prospects out there) and Gallo.

Now this is pure homerism.. and I'm ok with that, but I see Gallo as a Jeter type. Not as talented or as productive as some of the superstars in the league but a pure winner and a guy who's going to be in the middle of every rally, or as its BB every run. Gallo will make things easier for Amare/Melo. Gallo will keep away the doubles, keep the floor open and when defense swarm Melo because the dude's scoring cant be stopped it will be Gallo drilling clutch 3's and knocking down FTs in crunch time. He will be guarding Dereck Rose in the 4th qtr in the first round this year. Gallo will take the inbounds pass because if he cant find the open man he will drill that jumper without hesitation...

At least thats how I draw it up in my mind

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
eViL
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2/15/2011  2:37 PM
fishmike wrote:
eViL wrote:wait for melo in free agency. if we trade all our assets to get him, how do we upgrade once he's here? that's the thing I never see addressed. all i ever see is that melo is better than gallo and chandler and fields combined. yeah, no sh!t. but once he's on the team and we're capped out, what are we adding? did everyone forget that we'll be in the same conference with the heat for the next 4 years. here we are, poised to pick the guy up for nothing and we're clamoring to waste valuable assets on him. terrible. it's gone as far as people making up hypothetical new CBA provisions to try and sway us to trade. really? c'mon son. oh yeah, he's gonna sign with denver now because of the uncertainty of the CBA. yeah, that's it. under the new CBA, if there's no franchise tag, then they'll just squeeze down player salaries so far that melo will be getting paid $500,000 a year. he can't risk it. please. we all know superstars will get paid superstar money. that ain't changing. a smart team waits. and a smart player, if melo is one, realizes his new team will need their assets to use in another trade to fetch the 3rd guy (you know? the guy that isn't a free agent this summer).
you not being fair to the 3 posters who have address this topic 10,000x

They have said several times "you go out and get the great role players."

And if there is any doubt about who are these guys your getting

"role players are always available"

See? Problem solved

haha. fish please be less specific. haha... while i get that "role players are always available," what i'm getting at is: how do we complete the 3-star unit that we will need to compete if we trade all our assets?

melo + amare + role players < wade + lebron + bosh + role players.

if the idea is to get this team to a championship level then the benchmark has to be the heat and the celtics. both of those teams not only have a high level "big 3" but they have solid supporting casts. here we are, poised to add superstar number 2 in free agency with assets leftover to get superstar number 3 -- we can't let panic dictate the plan.

melo has to be on board and take this to free agency. if not, f him. the heat could not have done it without their big 3 working things out via free agency on their own terms. if melo wants to compete as bad as the heat's 3, then he has to come as a free agent.

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Silverfuel
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2/15/2011  2:44 PM
fishmike wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:
eViL wrote:wait for melo in free agency. if we trade all our assets to get him, how do we upgrade once he's here?

Nobody wants all our assets traded away for Melo. Donnie will not let that happen.

your wrong! There's a handful of people with about 80k posts between them that say trade whatever it takes for Melo because the rest is easy.

I thought you were suggesting some of the same... glad to see the above.

I think if the Knicks really did turn down a Melo deal it will happen. If they got that close I think he's a Knick after the AS break. Some wont like the deal, some will love it, some will be in between.


DW plays a good game and most fans have complete faith in him. They need to know that though. Some of the threads are exaggerating when they say we are overpaying and I don't think the Knicks management guys should get the wrong idea about fan reaction.
Even more important than Melo to me is Walsh. If he makes a trade for Melo you know he's got a long term plan. He's also done a great job getting Mos, Douglas, Felton, Williams, Fields... for nothing or well below market value. There is no way he will keep up that run of success... no GM can, but if anyone can find guys like that is Walsh. We will certainly need them. In Donnie we trust

I don't know about the long term plan part. I never for a second thought the 3 year plan was still in effect when he signed Amare in the summer and didn't make any other moves. The 3-year plan had become a 5 year plan and everything was ok. But you know what Dolan did, so now we are most probably back to a 3 year plan.
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TMS
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2/15/2011  2:54 PM
Gallinari, Felton, starter (Wilson), Curry, pick for Melo & Billups & some of you think that's a bad deal for the Knicks???

C - Mozgov
PF - Amare
SF - Melo
SG - Fields
PG - Billups
6 - Douglas
7 - Williams
8 - Turiaf
9 - Walker
10 - AR
11 - Rautins
12 - Mason
----------
13 - Buike

how is that not a huge upgrade over what we have now??? Billups is still playing at a pretty high level, he's not the Allstar he used to be but he's still effective & just as much of a leader as Felton... he's more suited to a slower pace game at this point in his career but he's only a 1 year stopgap, in 2012 we'd have the option to target CP3 or Deron Williams in free agency depending on what the new CBA entails... meanwhile we're able to hold onto 2 of our 4 top young talents & also Mozgov & TD how is that gutting the team??? i have no idea what you people expect to give up in a Melo trade if you're not willing to part with talent to get talent then you don't deserve any.

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TMS
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2/15/2011  2:57 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
CashMoney wrote:IMHO this is not a terrible trade for the Knicks. With Melo in the mix Chandler is gone next year anyway. We part with Chandler a little early, trade Gallo, a pick, Curry's contract and Felton. Looking at this trade it's pretty much trading Gallo and Felton for Melo and Billups. Sure Billups is up there age wise but he can still play. Felton was given a 2 year deal for a reason aka CP3. The Knicks are not winning this year and there is no guarantee that the Knicks sign him during the off season. Billups can be bough out nexy year anyway or the Knicks could keep him next year and make a run at Chris Paul the following off season. I would pull the trigger on this deal.

I agree.

I agree also... i love Felton he's been a huge reason for the season's turnaround but Billups is no piece of stale bread either, i think Billups & Melo would be great playing with Amare... & we get to hold onto Fields, Mozgov, AR & TD in the process? where do i sign?

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
abs
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2/15/2011  2:59 PM
TMS wrote:Gallinari, Felton, starter (Wilson), Curry, pick for Melo & Billups & some of you think that's a bad deal for the Knicks???

C - Mozgov
PF - Amare
SF - Melo
SG - Fields
PG - Billups
6 - Douglas
7 - Williams
8 - Turiaf
9 - Walker
10 - AR
11 - Rautins
12 - Mason
----------
13 - Buike

how is that not a huge upgrade over what we have now??? Billups is still playing at a pretty high level, he's not the Allstar he used to be but he's still effective & just as much of a leader as Felton... he's more suited to a slower pace game at this point in his career but he's only a 1 year stopgap, in 2012 we'd have the option to target CP3 or Deron Williams in free agency depending on what the new CBA entails... meanwhile we're able to hold onto 2 of our 4 top young talents & also Mozgov & TD how is that gutting the team??? i have no idea what you people expect to give up in a Melo trade if you're not willing to part with talent to get talent then you don't deserve any.

agree i would only sub fields for gallo and to do deal today
fishmike
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2/15/2011  3:00 PM
eViL wrote:
fishmike wrote:
eViL wrote:wait for melo in free agency. if we trade all our assets to get him, how do we upgrade once he's here? that's the thing I never see addressed. all i ever see is that melo is better than gallo and chandler and fields combined. yeah, no sh!t. but once he's on the team and we're capped out, what are we adding? did everyone forget that we'll be in the same conference with the heat for the next 4 years. here we are, poised to pick the guy up for nothing and we're clamoring to waste valuable assets on him. terrible. it's gone as far as people making up hypothetical new CBA provisions to try and sway us to trade. really? c'mon son. oh yeah, he's gonna sign with denver now because of the uncertainty of the CBA. yeah, that's it. under the new CBA, if there's no franchise tag, then they'll just squeeze down player salaries so far that melo will be getting paid $500,000 a year. he can't risk it. please. we all know superstars will get paid superstar money. that ain't changing. a smart team waits. and a smart player, if melo is one, realizes his new team will need their assets to use in another trade to fetch the 3rd guy (you know? the guy that isn't a free agent this summer).
you not being fair to the 3 posters who have address this topic 10,000x

They have said several times "you go out and get the great role players."

And if there is any doubt about who are these guys your getting

"role players are always available"

See? Problem solved

haha. fish please be less specific. haha... while i get that "role players are always available," what i'm getting at is: how do we complete the 3-star unit that we will need to compete if we trade all our assets?

melo + amare + role players < wade + lebron + bosh + role players.

if the idea is to get this team to a championship level then the benchmark has to be the heat and the celtics. both of those teams not only have a high level "big 3" but they have solid supporting casts. here we are, poised to add superstar number 2 in free agency with assets leftover to get superstar number 3 -- we can't let panic dictate the plan.

melo has to be on board and take this to free agency. if not, f him. the heat could not have done it without their big 3 working things out via free agency on their own terms. if melo wants to compete as bad as the heat's 3, then he has to come as a free agent.

Knicks could get him now if the deal is right.

Say Knicks offer Fields, Chandler, Curry, cash, their own 2013 first rounder and another first rounder for AR or AR himself (whichever Denver wants) for Melo.

Lets say Denver is close but wont do it without more cap relief, so we add Azubuke and they add Harrington's horrific contract.

Knicks end up with this:
PG Felton 26
SG Melo 26
SF Gallo 22
PF Amare 28
C Mosgov 24
Bench: Harrington, Douglas, Williams, Turiaf

I'm thinking of this starting core as long term, 3-4 years of that starting group. It still had good young legs, star power, great size at every position. Melo (or Gallo) is a position away at SG, but we have seen Gallo guard wings very well, and when you look at their games this is a positive for the Knicks, not a drawback (as opposed to Spree playing the 3).

After that your looking at Walsh doing his thing with the draft and FAs as he try to rebuilds the pipeline and stocks up assets. Even if he never lands another Fields or Mosgov your still looking like a top team in the east

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
OasisBU
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2/15/2011  3:05 PM
It will be interesting to see how this turns out - there is a lot of disagreement on which pieces should be sent in order to land Melo.

Personally I think that guy needs to Opt out and join the movement here without costing us our chances at a championship by selling the farm for him - but the odds of that happening are not good.

"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
fishmike
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2/15/2011  3:05 PM
Silverfuel wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:
eViL wrote:wait for melo in free agency. if we trade all our assets to get him, how do we upgrade once he's here?

Nobody wants all our assets traded away for Melo. Donnie will not let that happen.

your wrong! There's a handful of people with about 80k posts between them that say trade whatever it takes for Melo because the rest is easy.

I thought you were suggesting some of the same... glad to see the above.

I think if the Knicks really did turn down a Melo deal it will happen. If they got that close I think he's a Knick after the AS break. Some wont like the deal, some will love it, some will be in between.


DW plays a good game and most fans have complete faith in him. They need to know that though. Some of the threads are exaggerating when they say we are overpaying and I don't think the Knicks management guys should get the wrong idea about fan reaction.
Even more important than Melo to me is Walsh. If he makes a trade for Melo you know he's got a long term plan. He's also done a great job getting Mos, Douglas, Felton, Williams, Fields... for nothing or well below market value. There is no way he will keep up that run of success... no GM can, but if anyone can find guys like that is Walsh. We will certainly need them. In Donnie we trust

I don't know about the long term plan part. I never for a second thought the 3 year plan was still in effect when he signed Amare in the summer and didn't make any other moves. The 3-year plan had become a 5 year plan and everything was ok. But you know what Dolan did, so now we are most probably back to a 3 year plan.
I think most every fan wants Melo. Its all cost and culture. The cap doesnt allow you to buy a title. Heat will find that out this year. You need players with upside who can grow into their roles and their contracts. Celtics couldnt win a title without Perkins. You need those guys and they dont grow on tree for the picking as some here would suggest
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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2/15/2011  3:08 PM
abs wrote:
TMS wrote:Gallinari, Felton, starter (Wilson), Curry, pick for Melo & Billups & some of you think that's a bad deal for the Knicks???

C - Mozgov
PF - Amare
SF - Melo
SG - Fields
PG - Billups
6 - Douglas
7 - Williams
8 - Turiaf
9 - Walker
10 - AR
11 - Rautins
12 - Mason
----------
13 - Buike

how is that not a huge upgrade over what we have now??? Billups is still playing at a pretty high level, he's not the Allstar he used to be but he's still effective & just as much of a leader as Felton... he's more suited to a slower pace game at this point in his career but he's only a 1 year stopgap, in 2012 we'd have the option to target CP3 or Deron Williams in free agency depending on what the new CBA entails... meanwhile we're able to hold onto 2 of our 4 top young talents & also Mozgov & TD how is that gutting the team??? i have no idea what you people expect to give up in a Melo trade if you're not willing to part with talent to get talent then you don't deserve any.

agree i would only sub fields for gallo and to do deal today

Gallo or Fields, doesn't matter who we keep out of those 2 as long as we can keep 1 of them & another piece like AR... the article cited Gallo so fine i'm cool w/including him & keeping Fields, i think Fields probably makes more sense anyway because he plays the 2G & Melo plays the same position that Gallo does, plus his salary coming off the books opens more space to target CP3 or Deron next year... but u wanna throw Fields their way & keep Gallo that's cool too... i don't see why Gallo couldn't play with Melo either.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Sure, Gut The Team And Throw In Landry Fields While You're At It

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