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BRIGGS
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12/8/2010  10:26 PM
rvwink wrote:"No rvwink Im sorry but youre wrong here."

Right or wrong isn't based on who is correct and who is incorrect. What we are discussing is whether the Knicks should take a long term view or a short term view of their personnel. That relates to philosophy and priorities, neither of which is right or wrong imo.

You clearly like to see the Knicks win and are unwilling to forfeit a single game to the idea that we need to develop players for the future. Lets say, that our playing Mosgov, and Randolph instead of your replacement guy will cost us 3 team wins this year. If either of those guys improves significantly and most around here thing that is likely, they could win us an extra 4 games over the next 3 years. So the payoff could be 400% more than the investment. Don't those seem like good odds to you?

Mosgov is 7 foot 1 and runs like a deer. He has decent mechanics for outside shooting, he can block shots, and he is a good learner. There is a high probability that he will improve. In fact, Mike D'Antoni says he is already playing better in practice, he is just nervous in the game. AR is also a very talented guy who has had excellent production with the Warriors previously. He needs to spend more time learning what his role is in Mike's system is. If he played well once, it is logical that he can play well again when he gets comfortable. The odds are great that at least one of the two will emerge as a player for the Knicks next year. Their upsides are so high, that if the emerge, they could be very valuable to the Knicks. I like to see the Knicks win games too. But I would be willing to invest 3 games this year to give me a better than 50% chance for the Knicks to win an extra 12 games over the 3 subsequent years. Wouldn't you?


You are over rating Mosgov. He has a deadly negative for a big man--bad hands. I do like him and maybe we keep him long term--who is to say. Your proclamation that Mosgov would be worth 13 more wins next year in absurd--you know that. If we offered Memphis Mosgov Randolph Douglas 3mm in cash and 2 #1 picks for Gasol and OJ Mayo(and maybe a reasonable foul contract exchange)--are you telling me you would not take it if they were willing? I'm willing to do a deal that makes the team better now and for the future as well. I just want more for the guys playing so hard and the fans who have put out 10 shtty years in to win now.

RIP Crushalot😞
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CrushAlot
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12/8/2010  10:27 PM
orangeblobman wrote:Nazr played only 4 in one game against us and didn't make it on the court in the second game. He can't hang against us, how will he hang with us?
Did you watch the first game? He had a conflict with Brown when he got taken out and Brown benched him for that game and the next game. He is putting up good numbers in limited minutes. Its too bad we didn't get to see him play but that was because his conflict with Brown.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
BRIGGS
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12/8/2010  11:43 PM
Chris Johnson absolutely dominating the D legue--ahain tonight 25 points 16 rebounds 7 blocks. Its funny but he actually played with ar--this guy is a player who had tremendous potential in college but just never did figure it out---I mean for free would it harm to take a chance on a player who is 6-11 and playing this well? Maybe release Mason?
RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
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12/8/2010  11:51 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Chris Johnson absolutely dominating the D legue--ahain tonight 25 points 16 rebounds 7 blocks. Its funny but he actually played with ar--this guy is a player who had tremendous potential in college but just never did figure it out---I mean for free would it harm to take a chance on a player who is 6-11 and playing this well? Maybe release Mason?

I thought the Knicks had an interesting line about the D-league. They said they felt it was more valuable to practice against NBA guys than to play games in the D-League. I think I might agree.

¿ △ ?
BRIGGS
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12/8/2010  11:55 PM
crzymdups wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Chris Johnson absolutely dominating the D legue--ahain tonight 25 points 16 rebounds 7 blocks. Its funny but he actually played with ar--this guy is a player who had tremendous potential in college but just never did figure it out---I mean for free would it harm to take a chance on a player who is 6-11 and playing this well? Maybe release Mason?

I thought the Knicks had an interesting line about the D-league. They said they felt it was more valuable to practice against NBA guys than to play games in the D-League. I think I might agree.

I always think in any sport practice and games are two different levels of play. But right now Im talking about adding a 6-11 athletic player who is the most dominant player in the D league--not sending anyone there. I do think it could kelp a rautins find a rhythm in game conditions. We added mason and Starks from a similar deal.

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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12/9/2010  12:15 AM
Well I dont think Jason Thompson is staying on any table--I think the Kings realize what they have now.
RIP Crushalot😞
rvwink
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12/9/2010  8:59 AM
"You are over rating Mosgov. He has a deadly negative for a big man--bad hands. I do like him and maybe we keep him long term--who is to say. Your proclamation that Mosgov would be worth 13 more wins next year in absurd--you know that."

Concerning his bad hands. According to D'Antoni, Mosgov admittedly has bad hands in his short playing time in games, but not when he is practicing. Its important to decide whether a problem is short term or long term. Its a confidence issue, and over time the bad hands will go away. I would be happy to make you a bet on this issue.

I said was that between Mosgov and Randolph, one was likely to develop. Because they both have high upsides, the development of one of the two could be worth 4 games a year for the next 3 years. You accused me of saying Mosgov could be worth 13 more wins next year which is nonsense. Read what I wrote again.

Randolph could be an excellent power forward alongside Amare. Mosgov is a very rare combination of size, agility, speed, and an intelligent hard worker. The upside of both guys is far more valuable to the Knicks, then thinking that the 10 to 15 minutes we may spend to help them develop may occasionally cost us a game. If you like winning games, why risk trading a player who can be very valuable for us in the future, just to have a better quality short term alternative sitting on the bench that we are unlikely to use much.

As you and I both suggested, Amare is playing Center most of the time anyway, and Chandler is playing power forward. So I don't think the backup center position is a big problem anyway except against a few elite teams? Those are games we are probably not yet ready to win anyway. I sincerely believe Amare needs to keep playing Center for the Knicks unless or until, a player with the mobility of a Mosgov can be developed.

Bippity10
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12/9/2010  11:52 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Chris Johnson absolutely dominating the D legue--ahain tonight 25 points 16 rebounds 7 blocks. Its funny but he actually played with ar--this guy is a player who had tremendous potential in college but just never did figure it out---I mean for free would it harm to take a chance on a player who is 6-11 and playing this well? Maybe release Mason?

I'm confident that Walsh and company as well as many other GM's are watching him and will make a move if they see fit. But i'm pretty sure that we are going to exhaust all avenues for a current NBA productive big man before we go to the NBDL to solve our needs. Last thing you want is to cut Mason(or someone else) pick up Johnson and then have Orlando call you and say "okay, okay we will give you Dwight Howard for Mason"(of course this is an exaggeration but you get the point.

I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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12/9/2010  11:56 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Chris Johnson absolutely dominating the D legue--ahain tonight 25 points 16 rebounds 7 blocks. Its funny but he actually played with ar--this guy is a player who had tremendous potential in college but just never did figure it out---I mean for free would it harm to take a chance on a player who is 6-11 and playing this well? Maybe release Mason?

I thought the Knicks had an interesting line about the D-league. They said they felt it was more valuable to practice against NBA guys than to play games in the D-League. I think I might agree.

I always think in any sport practice and games are two different levels of play. But right now Im talking about adding a 6-11 athletic player who is the most dominant player in the D league--not sending anyone there. I do think it could kelp a rautins find a rhythm in game conditions. We added mason and Starks from a similar deal.

Definite difference in level of play in mind as well but.......All the habits you will learn that will help you to become a good professional player are learned in practice.

I just hope that people will like me
cheers
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12/9/2010  12:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/9/2010  12:12 PM
is that chris johnson in this clip? he looks ten feet tall! sign him up and call him mr. reblocks.

Finestrg
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12/10/2010  12:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2010  12:44 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Chris Johnson absolutely dominating the D legue--ahain tonight 25 points 16 rebounds 7 blocks. Its funny but he actually played with ar--this guy is a player who had tremendous potential in college but just never did figure it out---I mean for free would it harm to take a chance on a player who is 6-11 and playing this well? Maybe release Mason?

See now you're talking..I mentioned this dude Chris Johnson early on in the Melo thread along with some other inexpensive options that could very well fit the bill(http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=37117&page=2)..A guy like this should be our first option when it comes to adding much needed depth along the frontline..If so, if we we're lucky enough to catch lightning in a bottle with a guy like Johnson, we move on happily looking like geniuses--assets & cap room intact..If not, on to the next DL/current FA big who could possibly do the job, and make no mistake about it, there are several guys out there available just waiting for a phone call..How we're not auditioning for inexpensive big men with 10-day contacts I have no idea..What, so Turiaf's back now (not at 100% I might add) and everything's right in the world again? I hope they don't believe that..Donnie & co. have done a very good job so far all considered -- but their work can never end. Their hands may be tied right now when in comes to doing some middle-of-the-road type moves and that would be understandable -- I think they value the assets they have and their cap room as much as I do and I think the plan is to make a spash for something big when the time comes..Bravo if that's the case..That's a good strategy..In the meantime though, where does it say sit tight and sit on your hands and do nothing to continue addressing team needs?? It's gotta be an ongoing process..Cut Mason Jr. (even more obvious now with S Williams' emergence) and bring in a guy like Chris Johnson..Why not? Have no idea why they're waiting on this type of move..I would've auditioned 5 big men by now starting weeks ago (hopefully not, hopefully I would've found a guy that fits on the first shot, but you get the idea)..

If it came down to adding an NBA-level player along with some minor salary, a guy I continue to like for this team is Ryan Anderson..6'10" inside/outside PF that may be just as good a shooter as Gallinari, maybe better..MUCH better rebounder as well and even though we're playing a lot better now, that continues to be a frontline weakness..This is a guy that, given the mins, can go out there and get you 10 rebounds playing some 4 (maybe even some big 3 a-la Gallinari) and hit 5+ 3s in any given game...He's currently out with a sprained foot he suffered over a week ago -- when he returns, there may not be a spot for him now that Brandon Bass has stepped it up for the Magic..The contract is minimal to absorb and the upside is pretty high given the skills he brings to the table..If we can't get another legit C type, adding a Ryan Anderson intrigues me: he's got size, he'd help on the glass, he can score inside and out and he's a lot tougher & skilled than he looks..If he returns 100% healthy soon yet finds himself out of the Magic rotation behind Bass, Gortat, etc. (they're gonna want to develop Daniel Orton at some point too I would think--they'll need to make some room for him), I'd call up the Magic and look to deal for him..If he's healthy and if the price is right though--two big 'ifs'..I'd make the call though and see where the conversation goes.

Finestrg
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12/11/2010  11:09 PM
Watching the Gonzaga/ND game and I was just thinking -- I wonder if there's a way to steal Luke Harangody away from the Celtics..A little on the unorthodox side and slightly undersized at a hair under 6'8" in shoes (although his 6'10" wingspan & monster 8'10" standing reach help him compensate) but he's got some great intangibles as I'm sure most of you know: brute strength, tremendous nose for the ball, excellent rebounder, solid post defender and even though it doesn't look pretty, he finds ways to score the basketball..Ideally I'd like a little more height & athleticism to play alongside Amar'e but I think this kid could help us...Right now it doesn't look like he's getting much time at all behind Garnett & Glen Davis even with J O'Neal out indefinitely with sore knees, Perkins out until at least Feb with his knee problem, & most recently Shaq out of the lineup with a sore calf (last game Semih Erden played and started at center in place of Shaq -- Harangody was a DNP coach's decision, surprising considering their rash of injuries). Hard to tell what the plan is for Harangody in Boston -- maybe there is none..Maybe the Celtics agree to a small deal like the rights to C Jerome Jordan and a future 2 for Harangody. Maybe they're in the market for a taller DL player/FA and want the open roster spot (which is where the rights to Jordan may look appealing since he doesn't occupy one. Plus they may be looking for a C for next year anyway -- what if J O'Neal & Perkins don't come back from their injuries?)..When you get right down to it I bet the Celtics want to keep him around for insurance, but why isn't he playing now with all those frontline injuries?? Maybe he could be had -- I think he could be a good role player here. Just a thought.
BigSm00th
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12/12/2010  10:33 AM
nazr mohammed, one time knick, is on a bobcat team that is seriously sputtering right now. will MJ start dealing? guy's not a very good GM, walsh should sniff around and see if he can steal some serviceable parts. i don't think he'd be willing to part with gerald wallace or ty thomas, but mohammed, shaun livingston to back up felton, i think they can be had for the right price.
#Knickstaps
Childs2Dudley
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12/12/2010  11:16 AM
Mohammed and Livingston both suck large amounts of asw. No thanks.
"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
Realistic Big man who is available thread

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