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Bippity10
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12/7/2010  1:19 PM
FistOfOakley wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:
Is rebounding a problem for us? Is it such a problem that we need to inject a guy that is shooting 27% and can't guard anyone in the post?


i was trying to find the exact ranking but I thought we were ranked 18th last time i checked. in any event i find it hard to believe that you can't find ANY playing time for your best rebounder. if d'antoni wants to make a point fine, i can buy that. but i can't agree with the fact that we're a better team without him playing right now when mozgov is looking at rebounds go past him instead of actually grabbing them.

You absolutely find time for your best rebounder if he isn't hurting you in other ways. At 27%, poor shot selection and the ability to stop the flow of the offense, and a +/- consistently in the negatives, he was hurting us. There is no point being made. You guys need to move on from the Stephon Marbury era. We aren't punishing guys by not playing them, we are playing the best line-up which has led us to a 10-1 record in the last 11 games and is displaying chemistry that might be amongst the best in the league. If guys want minutes they have to earn them now.

Trust me, just like everyone on this board, the coachign staff wants him to play. He was the centerpiece of that David Lee trade. Turiaf was a throw in and AZ was injured. The man they wanted was Randolph. I've been in D'Antoni's position before. They are dying to get the guy on the floor. But at 10-1? Sorry. If things fall apart maybe we can get you some spot minutes, but while we are winning it's up to you to earn time like the rest of the winners that are playing.

I just hope that people will like me
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Bippity10
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12/7/2010  1:26 PM
The worst part about all this is that with the play of Mozgov and the injury to Turiaf the bar is being set very low and AR still can't get over it. As bad as Mozgov is there is still a legitimate question about why this guy should or should not get minutes. With his talent, his play on the court should make this debate laughable, and yet he hasn't.
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TMS
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12/7/2010  1:32 PM
Bippity10 wrote:
TMS wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:
FistOfOakley wrote:
martin wrote:i already tried to ask that question and got nada back

Anthony Randolph has a career per 36min average of almost 11 rebounds a game which would be head and shoulders above what anyone else on this team provides. That alone is reason enough to play him.

Roger Mason has a career 3 point shooting percentage of 38%, is taht reason enough to play him?

Mozgov's getting minutes & he still looks as lost as ever... at some point u have to question the reasoning behind some of these rotation decisions... they're all clearly not based on performance on the basketball court... IMHO it is in the best interest of our franchise to be playing AR over Mozgov at this point, but it's not my team & i'm not the coach.

See I disagree, and obviously D'Antoni does too. Neither of us is wrong or right, but.....That's why coaching is not an easy thing. Right and wrong is not always cut and dry

I personally would not play AR. I think he's better then Mozgov right now, but his decision making his horrendous. It messes with chemistry. You don't knwo what shot is going up and when, it wasn't in the flow of the offense and he added nothing in terms of energy. He is a ball stopper in an offense designed for ball movement. Mozgov is brutal. He's dropping balls, he doesn't finish, he fouls everyone but if you really watch.......He's a ball mover, when guards penetrate they see Mozgov, and he provides at least some sort of resistance against post players(even if a lot that is fouls) instead of being backed underneath the basket like AR. I also think a light bulb is going to go on in his head and he will be fine. I persoanlly think AR's problem is a confidence problem, a knowledge of teh game problem and a lack of understanding. I think Mozgov's biggest problem is an adjustment to the US game. One of those is easier to fix then the other. Either way I don't think it would kill us to go AR over Mozgov I just personally would play Mozgov if I was coach.

Now if you were coach you would play AR. You see the obvious unlimited potential, an ability to impact the game with his athletic ability. An ability to finish at the rim that as of right now is above what Mozgov can dream of producing. YOu probably see more reasons to play him as well.

Neither of us is right. There is no conspiracy theory in picking one over another. D'antoni has shown he will play guys that produce, but ball movement and smart decisions is key in his offense, and he seems to go for guys that are good at it. Mozgov is, AR is not. I have no doubt that when AR is productive in practice he will be in the line-up just like Shawne is.

i definitely agree w/u that Mozgov is more physical, but to me it's a clumsy, not knowing what he's doing out there type of physical... i don't see him facilitating ball movement like you do... what i see out of Moz is a guy who's almost always late on defensive rotations & as a result he's often collecting cheap fouls or missing his assignment altogether... i also see a guy who can't catch a pass thrown his way if his life depended on it, which leads to turnovers which stalls the offensive flow... it would be fine w/me if he would at least be boxing out & grabbing boards, but he's not even doing that... he's not performing up to par at all... so in that regard i don't see the harm in playing a kid with AR who has a much higher upside over him to try & build up his confidence... but if Moz is doing something in practice that's winning him playing time over AR, then so be it... like i said before, we need to value each & every game this year because we're legitimately contending for a playoff berth this year... last year i woulda been all about getting AR & Mozgov max minutes regardless if we had to take some away from a guy like Turiaf, cuz we had nothing to lose during a season where our playoff hopes were unrealistic.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
FistOfOakley
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12/7/2010  1:35 PM
i don't get why we should wait since we're winning. we should have our best players playing. maybe if AR was playing more that Raptors game would have been over midway through the 4th and we can give our starters some rest. maybe kevin love doesn't get 31 rebounds or michael beasley doesn't go off. maybe we beat denver or golden state. we'll never know.

just because we have an acceptable record doesn't mean everything's been a right move. this probably is one of my only gripes and it's relatively small but i do think it is VERY clear that AR should be seeing some floor time instead of mozgov, at the very least when turiaf's been healthy.

Vmart
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12/7/2010  1:39 PM
Bippity10 wrote:
cheers wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:
cheers wrote:@bip-- mda and toney have same hitch, horse blinders. that doesnt mean i want toney losing minutes or mda losing hair. just take 'em off from time to time and see what is around you.

I have no idea waht this means

means its mda's job to see more than what he is seeing. same with toney, doing great, but its your job to see chandler at the wing. its mda's job to see he needs to give ar spot minutes.

We are 10-1 in our last 11 games, why is it anyone's responsibility to do anythign different then what we are doing?

It's actually AR's responsibility to up his game so he can beat someone out for a position like Williams did.

I ask the question again, what has AR done to deserve anything? What has he achieved?

AR has achieved a very nice youtube clip. Which has basically pulled the wool over everyone's eyes. AR plays small and that is his problem. He is trying to hard to be PG, SG, SF when he should be trying to be a PF/C. He needs to S.T.A.T.

Bippity10
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12/7/2010  1:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/7/2010  1:52 PM
FistOfOakley wrote:i don't get why we should wait since we're winning. we should have our best players playing. maybe if AR was playing more that Raptors game would have been over midway through the 4th and we can give our starters some rest. maybe kevin love doesn't get 31 rebounds or michael beasley doesn't go off. maybe we beat denver or golden state. we'll never know.

just because we have an acceptable record doesn't mean everything's been a right move. this probably is one of my only gripes and it's relatively small but i do think it is VERY clear that AR should be seeing some floor time instead of mozgov, at the very least when turiaf's been healthy.

He has played 11 or 12 games this year and had a mild impact in one(we lost by 27 points), maybe two of them. Why would you somehow assume that he would be so good in these other games that he would have put us over the top? Are these based on reality on the court or dreams of what could be? Reality on the court has shown us 27% shooting, poor shot selection, some minor impact on the defensive end and his best game of the season was 8 points, 9 rebounds, 2-7 shooting in a 27 point blow out loss. AS a matter of fact, in the early season he was getting 12 minutes per in the first 7 games he played. We went 2-5 in those games. What indication do we have that he would be winning games for us, when the 7 early games he played showed the opposite?

I just hope that people will like me
martin
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12/7/2010  1:50 PM
FistOfOakley wrote:i don't get why we should wait since we're winning. we should have our best players playing. maybe if AR was playing more that Raptors game would have been over midway through the 4th and we can give our starters some rest. maybe kevin love doesn't get 31 rebounds or michael beasley doesn't go off. maybe we beat denver or golden state. we'll never know.

just because we have an acceptable record doesn't mean everything's been a right move. this probably is one of my only gripes and it's relatively small but i do think it is VERY clear that AR should be seeing some floor time instead of mozgov, at the very least when turiaf's been healthy.

what the F has AR done one the court to suggest that?

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fishmike
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12/7/2010  1:52 PM
FistOfOakley wrote:we're actually 22nd in rebound rate.
and we are #2 in the league in PPS (point per possession)
we are #1 in blocks
we are #7 in steals
we are are the 6th WORST in opposing FG%
our rebounding differential is -1.7

clearly rebounding isnt our strength, but I wouldnt call it our weakness either. We score at a VERY high rate (#2). We force tons of turnovers on D, but our opposing FG% is terrible. That translates to not a lot of rebounds.

Its not so bad where I am going to inject a guy in AR who hasnt earned his playing time.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
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12/7/2010  1:52 PM
Guys, coaches don't play their best players. They play the best TEAM.

Remember teh YMCA champion is not always the team with the most talent. Usually, it's the group of old guys that play best together. AR has struggled to fit into our offense and has not showed the intensity to make the coachign staff forget that he doesn't fit in. Soon enough, he will get time. Trust me on this. He's just not ready, and we are winning. When we need him, they will play him. He better be ready

I just hope that people will like me
Panos
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12/7/2010  1:54 PM
Bippity10 wrote:Guys, coaches don't play their best players. They play the best TEAM.

Remember teh YMCA champion is not always the team with the most talent. Usually, it's the group of old guys that play best together. AR has struggled to fit into our offense and has not showed the intensity to make the coachign staff forget that he doesn't fit in. Soon enough, he will get time. Trust me on this. He's just not ready, and we are winning. When we need him, they will play him. He better be ready


YMCA? We talkin' 'bout YMCA?
Not the NBA. Not the NBA.
We talkin' bout YMCA.

orangeblobman
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Nauru
12/7/2010  1:57 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/7/2010  1:59 PM
Bippity10 wrote:Guys, coaches don't play their best players. They play the best TEAM.

Remember teh YMCA champion is not always the team with the most talent. Usually, it's the group of old guys that play best together. AR has struggled to fit into our offense and has not showed the intensity to make the coachign staff forget that he doesn't fit in. Soon enough, he will get time. Trust me on this. He's just not ready, and we are winning. When we need him, they will play him. He better be ready

That's true. I'm reminded of a rec league team I was on in early 2010. I am very talented, the second best individual baller on the team that season, but every time I was on the court we were terrible and we lost every game I played in. Our only wins came in two games I didn't show up for. This is because we weren't a good team with me on the floor, the other guys couldn't work with a player at my talent level.

So it's about the connections between members of a team, not about the individual talent. This is as true in the NBA league as it is at the local Y.

WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Bippity10
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12/7/2010  1:57 PM
martin wrote:
FistOfOakley wrote:i don't get why we should wait since we're winning. we should have our best players playing. maybe if AR was playing more that Raptors game would have been over midway through the 4th and we can give our starters some rest. maybe kevin love doesn't get 31 rebounds or michael beasley doesn't go off. maybe we beat denver or golden state. we'll never know.

just because we have an acceptable record doesn't mean everything's been a right move. this probably is one of my only gripes and it's relatively small but i do think it is VERY clear that AR should be seeing some floor time instead of mozgov, at the very least when turiaf's been healthy.

what the F has AR done one the court to suggest that?

As a matter of fact we are 4-7 in games he's played and 9-2 when he doesn't. In games where he's gotten more then 5 minutes we are 1-7 and 12-2 when he hasn't. In games that he's gotten more then 10 we are 1-4 and 12-5 when he hasn't. Now these stats are meaningless, but they are as meaningless as you making up the fact that AR would have stopped Love or ended games early or beat teams like Denver. There is no evidence that he has made us better.

One day he will. Maybe soon. Not now.

I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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12/7/2010  1:58 PM
Panos wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:Guys, coaches don't play their best players. They play the best TEAM.

Remember teh YMCA champion is not always the team with the most talent. Usually, it's the group of old guys that play best together. AR has struggled to fit into our offense and has not showed the intensity to make the coachign staff forget that he doesn't fit in. Soon enough, he will get time. Trust me on this. He's just not ready, and we are winning. When we need him, they will play him. He better be ready


YMCA? We talkin' 'bout YMCA?
Not the NBA. Not the NBA.
We talkin' bout YMCA.

Basketball concepts are the same no matter what level it is. Chemistry wins.

I just hope that people will like me
TMS
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12/7/2010  2:00 PM
Panos wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:Guys, coaches don't play their best players. They play the best TEAM.

Remember teh YMCA champion is not always the team with the most talent. Usually, it's the group of old guys that play best together. AR has struggled to fit into our offense and has not showed the intensity to make the coachign staff forget that he doesn't fit in. Soon enough, he will get time. Trust me on this. He's just not ready, and we are winning. When we need him, they will play him. He better be ready


YMCA? We talkin' 'bout YMCA?
Not the NBA. Not the NBA.
We talkin' bout YMCA.

that's just wrong

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
GodSaveTheKnicks
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12/7/2010  2:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/7/2010  2:02 PM
Theory 1: AR is lazy sitting until he either works harder

Theory 2: AR is basketball stupid and is sitting until he gets the offensive/defensive schemes

Theory 3: AR is working hard but just not as conducive to winning as Mozgov.

Perhaps one day MDA writes a book and discloses wtf is going on.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
umynot
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12/7/2010  2:02 PM
I say b4 years end we will be seeing a whole bunch of AR.....

Kid is 21 and needs to mature

KNICKS on the way UP!!!
orangeblobman
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12/7/2010  2:04 PM
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Theory 1: AR is lazy sitting until he either works harder

Theory 2: AR is basketball stupid and is sitting until he gets the offensive/defensive schemes

Theory 3: AR is working hard but just not as conducive to winning as Mozgov.

Perhaps one day MDA writes a book and discloses wtf is going on.

I don't like how famous people always write books with someone. It would be more interesting if they told it in their own language.

WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Bippity10
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12/7/2010  2:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/7/2010  2:09 PM
TMS wrote:
Panos wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:Guys, coaches don't play their best players. They play the best TEAM.

Remember teh YMCA champion is not always the team with the most talent. Usually, it's the group of old guys that play best together. AR has struggled to fit into our offense and has not showed the intensity to make the coachign staff forget that he doesn't fit in. Soon enough, he will get time. Trust me on this. He's just not ready, and we are winning. When we need him, they will play him. He better be ready


YMCA? We talkin' 'bout YMCA?
Not the NBA. Not the NBA.
We talkin' bout YMCA.

that's just wrong

Boxing out works in elementary school as it does in the NBA
Hard nose defense wins in high school like it wins in the NBA
Hustle gets results in college as it does in the NBA
Chemistry wins in the YMCA as it does in the NBA

Nothing changes just because it's the NBA

I just hope that people will like me
GodSaveTheKnicks
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12/7/2010  2:11 PM
orangeblobman wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:Guys, coaches don't play their best players. They play the best TEAM.

Remember teh YMCA champion is not always the team with the most talent. Usually, it's the group of old guys that play best together. AR has struggled to fit into our offense and has not showed the intensity to make the coachign staff forget that he doesn't fit in. Soon enough, he will get time. Trust me on this. He's just not ready, and we are winning. When we need him, they will play him. He better be ready

That's true. I'm reminded of a rec league team I was on in early 2010. I am very talented, the second best individual baller on the team that season, but every time I was on the court we were terrible and we lost every game I played in. Our only wins came in two games I didn't show up for. This is because we weren't a good team with me on the floor, the other guys couldn't work with a player at my talent level.

So it's about the connections between members of a team, not about the individual talent. This is as true in the NBA league as it is at the local Y.

that is hilarious. i wish you had youtube videos of the games with you and without you.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
martin
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12/7/2010  2:19 PM
TMS wrote:
Panos wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:Guys, coaches don't play their best players. They play the best TEAM.

Remember teh YMCA champion is not always the team with the most talent. Usually, it's the group of old guys that play best together. AR has struggled to fit into our offense and has not showed the intensity to make the coachign staff forget that he doesn't fit in. Soon enough, he will get time. Trust me on this. He's just not ready, and we are winning. When we need him, they will play him. He better be ready


YMCA? We talkin' 'bout YMCA?
Not the NBA. Not the NBA.
We talkin' bout YMCA.

that's just wrong

oh that's funny

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