Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If it was about getting star players Miami would be 17-0 they arent and they wont be ever.

It sports its about team and chemistry. We have two ball dominant players Amare and Felton--that is fine becasue our other guys can get theirs in the flow without the need to dominate it.

This isnt baseball this is a team sport. There are roles there is only 1 basketball. We need another scoring big and enhancement from the bench. That way we could play with amare with Gallo at PF Thompson at PF Turriaf at C etc.. the rotation is nice--

just think about this think about the differential if we removed Mosgov and pout in Thompson and Azu--cut down minutes so guys could go harder and get good rest. thatw hat SA is doing and they are 13-1. Utah--3 bigs you need 3 bigs. we have the other pieces or most of them that are building chemsitry

Felton's irrelevant to the discussion. He's on a 2 year contract and he's movable.

Felton's irrelevant? Guys avg 18-8-4 with 2 steals and shooting 46%?? we wont do better--thats not a position to worry about--its in good hands we should extend his contract if anything.

Im not worried about next year--Im worried about this year I think we can win now if we can add another skilled big--and if Im right why would we want to change the team so much?

Let me ask you a question -- suppose the Celtics never made the deal for Kevin Garnett back in '07.. In that deal they went all in -- Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, a 2009 first round draft pick, a return of Minnesota's conditional first round draft pick previously obtained in the Ricky Davis/Wally Szczerbiak trade and cash. But let's go alternate reality here for a sec --- suppose they chose to deal off some of those assets for a support player instead (someone not of Garnett's caliber but decent) -- do they make it to the finals even with the seperate Ray Allen deal? Say they kept Jefferson out of that deal, grabbed another decent player with those other assets--nothing great but decent, say someone on Jason Thompson's level (Green still had some promise back then) and then pulled the trigger on the Ray Allen deal. Jefferson/Ray Allen/decent support player (imagine even Jason Thompson as is right now) ---> is that good enough to combine with Pierce for a couple of trips to the finals, one championship and a mainstay atop the Atlantic division, even the eastern conference to this very day? I don't know man..Al Jefferson, even before he injuried himself, was never on the Ticket's level. The Celts suspected this, went through with the deal and eventually prospered..They zeroed in on the best available player at the time, put together an enticing package of ready-to-go talent and picks and got 'er done. I'm not against doing the same thing here.

Briggs you said yourself that you're interested in winning now, right? OK then -- how is Melo not a guy that helps us win right now??? How is Carmelo Anthony along with Amar'e Stoudemire together in their prime (you can argue that Garnett & Allen weren't even in their prime when the Celtics acquired them btw) not a good enough duo to at least get us to the point where we're all talking championship? Isn't that the goal? Championship?? That would be the best duo NY has ever had since I've been following this team..Now you're talking championship level squad, just like the Celtics. I understand they also had Paul Pierce and got lucky with Rondo, 2 key players, but who's to say we can't come up with a few more decent players to help round out our team when the dusts settles? We wouldn't necessarily have that 3rd star after depleting ourselves somewhat to get Melo but so what man, not many teams do..Who says Fields couldn't be that guy eventually? The guy's playing like a 5-year vet, not a rookie; Ray Felton's playing the best ball of his entire career right now under D'Antoni (including his years at UNC), Turiaf's doing his best Kendrick Perkins impersonation, etc..I think we'd be a lot closer than some people think..I'll even go out on a limb and say that I think Amar'e/Melo would be a better duo than Garnett/Allen, even back a few years ago when the Celts made those 2 deals for these guys. At least on par with...You have to give to get in this league and I'm not afraid of going after a guy like Melo in a blockbuster deal, a guy I consider the right guy for us at the moment. I dunno man, going for it when you have an opportunity to go get a big-time player in his prime esp. when the plan is to team him up with another star also in his prime is very appealing to me. I'm not interested in waiting to see if he becomes a FA -- if Denver wants to talk anytime before the Feb deadline, I'd be very happy to listen and make them a fair offer. Then we can really start talking championship around here again. I'm all about holding onto our major assets for the big one while immediately enhancing the frontline smartly in other ways -- there's some nice FA/DL big-man talent out there right now. IMHO, that's how this team needs to be handled right now and I get the feeling that's exactly what Donnie's looking to do. Depleting our assets for middle of the road-type players is too risky & could prove very costly. It jeopardizes that particular plan..'Jeopardize' isn't even the right word, it scuttles that plan outright..

plus according to this cable i just read on wikileaks the debate in the knicks organisation is really, at what cost trade or fa?

we not gonna argue over money, knicks dont argue over money. but i think there will be a family feud if ny loses gallo/fields/wilson/felton. im talking a nightmare scenario where the knicks just gut themselves in a trade to get melo. we do that, rewind the ten years, we goin be back to the future.

But Briggs is right we do need help so we can eitehr repackage Wilson and/or Gallo to to get another big.

I think we should resign Turiaf but he is a low minute player and should be paid as such. He won't get more durable.

IM greedy and want both.

If Melo truly wants to win this the path to a championship. Build around Amare and Melo but not gut the assets to do so.

If Melo is real about the money, NY and winning then he holds the key on how it gets done.

The core of Melo, Harris and Lopez with no yoots in waiting is not formatable. If the Russian could get melo as FA then you worry.

But

C Varajao
PF Amare
SF Gallo
SG Melo
PG Felton

This is formatable. Energy line of Moz-Fields-AR brings the run and gun to warp speed.

More real is Gallo goes and Melo is the SF which is more natural. I prefer to think more in terms of a Two wing two forward on point system where Gallo and Melo are interchangable. I would not count out Moz being more polished next year.

This is a bridge year. Make playoffs, establish leadership and an identity is plenty to paint this season a success.

Melo can simply say He won't resign with depleted Nyets and is willing to walk. Chandler and eddy (cap fodder) is better than nothing. Chandler is a fine player and can put up points. Denver is fine.

All the articles say Denver is in control. Its really Melo driving this thing. Extension or walk? Its a big question with big money at stake.

TMS wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Let me ask you a question -- suppose the Celtics never made the deal for Kevin Garnett back in '07..

Are you really trying to compare Garnett to Melo?

Amare is easily comparable to KG & you can easily make a case for Melo over Paul Pierce as well... the way Felton is playing you can put him & Rondo as at least a wash as well (the year they made the trade for KG)... is Kendrick Perkins that much better than Ronny Turiaf for that matter? the only piece you're really missing is the Ray Allen 3rd option scorer, but maybe Landry Fields can become that option? or maybe a combination of Fields & Azabuike can help to fill that role for this season & u can look to fill the role using your MLE next season? the Celtics went completely all in to try & win a championship & they accomplished their goal... why can't the Knicks do the same? because we're too afraid to deal away Gallo, AR &/or Wilson Chandler? Wilson won't be here anyway if we wait to sign Melo as a FA btw... i'm not saying it's a done deal we could get Melo for those 3 guys, but for people to assume we'd have no shot at winning a championship if we made a trade to get Melo to NY i think is off base... i think trading for Melo would make the Knicks instant title contenders in the EC personally.

Absolutely bro. Amar'e, Melo, Felton, hopefully we retain Fields, along with TD, Turiaf, Billy Walker, Andy Rautins & his shooting stroke, maybe Azubuike at a decent price if he regains form, maybe we bring back Shawne Williams on the cheap if he shows something along the way here...I mean that wouldn't be a bad foundation at all...That's a deep playoff foundation right there...We would've accomplished the big goal of bringing two stars together, two of the best players in the league at their positions for that matter, both in their prime..and there will still be some useful leftover pieces after the dust settles (see above)...Then it's a matter of piecing the rest together smartly --- go get me a Dwayne Jones, Josh Boone and/or a Vernon Goodridge for size, rebounding & dirty work; maybe we finally look to make that deal with Portland for Rudy Fernandez & Pat Mills (nice young PG depth with upside that's just buried in Portland right now), then if we're over the cap to start next season, think about using the mid-level like you said to go get a scorer off the bench to replace Chandler's offense or grab some veteran help --- there's some nice UFAs out there this summer that we could easily add to the mix using our MLE if we indeed start next year over the cap--either one big contract for one player or we could divide up the MLE on a couple of useful players (if it's even part of the new CBA--I heard it might not be, we'll have to see ) ---> Jamal Crawford, Kendrick Perkins, Big Baby Davis, Boris Diaw, JJ Barea, Caron Butler, Ty Chandler, Steve Novak, Nene, JR Smith, Shelden Williams, Tayshawn Prince, Lou Amundson, Mike Dunleavey Jr, Josh McRoberts, Rasual Butler, Craig Smith, Matt Barnes, Sasha Vujacic, Acie Law, Zach Randolph, Kris Humphries, Troy Murphy, Nick Collison, Nenad Kristic, Mo Pete, Mickael Pietrus, Grant Hill, J-Rich, Sammy Dalembert, Carl Landry, Antonie Wright, Leandro Barbosa, Reggie Evans, AK-47, CJ Miles, Hilton Armstrong, Mardy Collins, Josh Howard, Adam Morrison. Any one or some of these guys might find NY along with playing with Amar'e/Melo very intriguing...

Or maybe we elect to sign a RFA to an offer sheet and put pressure on his club to match ---> Greg Oden (maybe we take a chance if the reports are good on his health), Aaron Affalo, Jonas Jerebko, DaJuan Summers, Rodney Stuckey, Reggie Williams, Aaron Brooks, Marc Gasol, Sam Young, Mario Chalmers, CDR, Luc Mbah a Moute, Corey Brewer, Marco Belinelli, Marcus Thorton, Daquan Cook, Jeff Green, Spencer Hawes, Thad Young, Goran Dragic, Jared Dudley, Dante Cunningham, Joey Dorsey, Sonny Weems, Al Thorton, Nick Young..

Then there's the draft..We traded away last summer's pick--league rules say we keep ours this summer...We're gonna get another good player in the 1st round somewhere --- I tell ya a guy I like a lot going back to last year that's not being discussed on any mock is Arizona's Derrick Williams. Very nice player that's already off to a fast start his sophmore season - his name will be talked about more & more as the college season moves along---he'll definitely be looking to go pro. Not getting any buzz yet he's playing like a lottery pick so far...I also like Jamelle Horne from the Wildcats as well as a guy that will be available in the 2nd round...Point of all this is there will definitely be guys available to us in a number of different ways to further enhance what will already be here -- it's not like it'll be Amar'e, Melo and 13 scrubs..We'll still have opportunities to re-tool around these guys if we ever got lucky enough to get Anthony..Assets that go in the trade could be replaced--some easily, some not so easily but it can be done..I say go for it..You got a chance to get Carmelo Anthony in his prime to play alongside Amar'e Stoudemire in his prime, you do it and you don't look back..Only forward. Respect to all you guys but I can't for the life of me understand how any of you would be unhappy if Donnie went out and brought Carmelo Anthony here to play with STAT..Mind-boggling..

Nalod wrote:
I prefer that Melo prefer to not to to a team like the nets who will gut the future (lotto pick this year and Favors) to go to a team in the making.

But Briggs is right we do need help so we can eitehr repackage Wilson and/or Gallo to to get another big.

I think we should resign Turiaf but he is a low minute player and should be paid as such. He won't get more durable.

IM greedy and want both.

If Melo truly wants to win this the path to a championship. Build around Amare and Melo but not gut the assets to do so.

If Melo is real about the money, NY and winning then he holds the key on how it gets done.

The core of Melo, Harris and Lopez with no yoots in waiting is not formatable. If the Russian could get melo as FA then you worry.

But

C Varajao
PF Amare
SF Gallo
SG Melo
PG Felton

This is formatable. Energy line of Moz-Fields-AR brings the run and gun to warp speed.

More real is Gallo goes and Melo is the SF which is more natural. I prefer to think more in terms of a Two wing two forward on point system where Gallo and Melo are interchangable. I would not count out Moz being more polished next year.

This is a bridge year. Make playoffs, establish leadership and an identity is plenty to paint this season a success.

Melo can simply say He won't resign with depleted Nyets and is willing to walk. Chandler and eddy (cap fodder) is better than nothing. Chandler is a fine player and can put up points. Denver is fine.

All the articles say Denver is in control. Its really Melo driving this thing. Extension or walk? Its a big question with big money at stake.

nice nice scenario for the knicks, of course such a melo move would piss nets fans, [all 3 of them.]

and yes melo needs to be about all three, so far he has played his cards as he should. ny and melo are on the same page, i think a lot more than ny and lebron ever was.

thejerk wrote:Since we are stacked at the sf, wouldnt it be better if we went for a true 2 guard? Dont get me wrong right here, if I HAD to sacrifice Gallo AND Chandler for Melo that deal gets done but there are other options...

Iguadala (sick defense), Mayo, Arena, and JRich (Briggs?) come to mind, why not get a star player at a position of need rather than losing key players that can help us win and are already somewhat comfortable playing with each other.

We need another big after that, and a backup point. (either trade Douglas for one or hopefully Rautins can develop into one which doesnt seem likely)

How would we acquire any of those players without giving up "key players"?

Also, I'd easily sacrifice Gallo/Chandler for Melo, as Melo is a clear upgrade to Gallo and we can replace what Chandler gives us off the bench. Hell, we could even take Harrington back since Al's production off the bench really is no different than what Chandler is currently giving us.

If we wait till the summer to sign Melo, we're still losing at the very least: Chandler, Turiaf, Azubuike; and likely a 1st rounder in a S&T

If we trade for him now, we'd be looking at losing: Gallo, either Chandler or AR (preferably AR), and either Douglas or Walker. Maybe Fields enters this discussion, but despite his good play, I feel a 2nd round pick won't be a deal breaker for Denver.

Comparing the two scenarios, I'd much rather just trade for Melo now, cause a) Gallo would have no place on the team if we acquire Melo and it would force one or two players to play out of position just to squeeze him in the rotation; b) Chandler is more fit to come off the bench as our 6th man; c) we keep Turiaf; d) we ensure having Melo on the team now, rather than crossing our fingers that he doesn't sign an extension with another team before FA.

misterearl wrote:thejerk - what is your criteria for a "true 2 guard"?

Consistent shooter that can drive and play some defense.

scoshin wrote:

thejerk wrote:Since we are stacked at the sf, wouldnt it be better if we went for a true 2 guard? Dont get me wrong right here, if I HAD to sacrifice Gallo AND Chandler for Melo that deal gets done but there are other options...

Iguadala (sick defense), Mayo, Arena, and JRich (Briggs?) come to mind, why not get a star player at a position of need rather than losing key players that can help us win and are already somewhat comfortable playing with each other.

We need another big after that, and a backup point. (either trade Douglas for one or hopefully Rautins can develop into one which doesnt seem likely)

How would we acquire any of those players without giving up "key players"?

Also, I'd easily sacrifice Gallo/Chandler for Melo, as Melo is a clear upgrade to Gallo and we can replace what Chandler gives us off the bench. Hell, we could even take Harrington back since Al's production off the bench really is no different than what Chandler is currently giving us.

If we wait till the summer to sign Melo, we're still losing at the very least: Chandler, Turiaf, Azubuike; and likely a 1st rounder in a S&T

If we trade for him now, we'd be looking at losing: Gallo, either Chandler or AR (preferably AR), and either Douglas or Walker. Maybe Fields enters this discussion, but despite his good play, I feel a 2nd round pick won't be a deal breaker for Denver.

Comparing the two scenarios, I'd much rather just trade for Melo now, cause a) Gallo would have no place on the team if we acquire Melo and it would force one or two players to play out of position just to squeeze him in the rotation; b) Chandler is more fit to come off the bench as our 6th man; c) we keep Turiaf; d) we ensure having Melo on the team now, rather than crossing our fingers that he doesn't sign an extension with another team before FA.

I just think that this team the way it is set up now could be better off with a two, maybe a Joe Johnson on this team would be better than getting rid of Gallo and Chandler for Melo. Like I said if there is an opportunity to get Melo than we should go for it and build around that but maybe Wash's initial plan of landing JJ in the summer could have made this season great.

scoshin wrote:

thejerk wrote:

scoshin wrote:

thejerk wrote:Since we are stacked at the sf, wouldnt it be better if we went for a true 2 guard? Dont get me wrong right here, if I HAD to sacrifice Gallo AND Chandler for Melo that deal gets done but there are other options...

Iguadala (sick defense), Mayo, Arena, and JRich (Briggs?) come to mind, why not get a star player at a position of need rather than losing key players that can help us win and are already somewhat comfortable playing with each other.

We need another big after that, and a backup point. (either trade Douglas for one or hopefully Rautins can develop into one which doesnt seem likely)

How would we acquire any of those players without giving up "key players"?

Also, I'd easily sacrifice Gallo/Chandler for Melo, as Melo is a clear upgrade to Gallo and we can replace what Chandler gives us off the bench. Hell, we could even take Harrington back since Al's production off the bench really is no different than what Chandler is currently giving us.

If we wait till the summer to sign Melo, we're still losing at the very least: Chandler, Turiaf, Azubuike; and likely a 1st rounder in a S&T

If we trade for him now, we'd be looking at losing: Gallo, either Chandler or AR (preferably AR), and either Douglas or Walker. Maybe Fields enters this discussion, but despite his good play, I feel a 2nd round pick won't be a deal breaker for Denver.

Comparing the two scenarios, I'd much rather just trade for Melo now, cause a) Gallo would have no place on the team if we acquire Melo and it would force one or two players to play out of position just to squeeze him in the rotation; b) Chandler is more fit to come off the bench as our 6th man; c) we keep Turiaf; d) we ensure having Melo on the team now, rather than crossing our fingers that he doesn't sign an extension with another team before FA.

I just think that this team the way it is set up now could be better off with a two, maybe a Joe Johnson on this team would be better than getting rid of Gallo and Chandler for Melo. Like I said if there is an opportunity to get Melo than we should go for it and build around that but maybe Wash's initial plan of landing JJ in the summer could have made this season great.

Yeah but how are we going to get any of those players without giving up "key players"? The only expendable trade asset we have is AR, and AR isn't going to get back Mayo or JJ or Iguodala. Really, the only one on that list that we can get without giving up anything more than expirings is Arenas, and I want no part of that contract or player.

trade for arenas just for an expiring contract, if that deal existed that would be an easy call for walsh, if/if he feels ny is going deep into the playoffs this season. arenas has a thick skin that grew after his drama, so he can tolerate the ny tabloids. plus his skill-set fill the gaps of real knick needs.

im not worried about him being a locker room drama maker cause ny has a legit franchise player who doesn't tolerate b.s. amare leadership style reminds me of ewing because he too didnt tolerate b.s. and always made it clear the buck stopped with him. makes a head coach's job a helluva lot easier.