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ESPN: Knicks make significant progress on Carmelo trade
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grillco
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10/20/2010  11:36 AM
Olbrannon wrote:I will freely admit I at one time thought that dLee might be a better value than Amar'e I also admit I was wrong (this does happen once a year or so ). Now....will some of you come out of the woodwork and say you were wrong about Toney? Doubt it. Briggs has been ready to trade him for anything of value twice. JW44 just hates on him.

I wasn't posting yet, but I shared this sentiment at the time. It looks like the right decision was made as Amare is said to be uninterested in playing center and he'd be better suited as the 5 than Lee in an ideal situation. Additionally, Lee is undersized and under-defending front court presence.

AUTOADVERT
knicks1248
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10/20/2010  11:43 AM
Denver will trade melo b4 the dead line...so how do we get him during the off season when he wiill already have sign an extension.
Denver will not get played like the Rapts & clev...why can't some comprehend that...that oooh let's just wait til the summer is a high risk..
ES
Vmart
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10/20/2010  12:00 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
Vmart wrote:
fishmike wrote:
iSergio wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
iSergio wrote:
fishmike wrote:
iSergio wrote:
Uptown wrote:You make a deal for Melo in a heart beat. This team as currently constructed would be lucky to get an 8th seed at best. The boards infatuation with potential over proven allstar talent is headscracthing...


Same people who wanted to re-sign David Lee over signing Amar'e Stoudemire. LOL

find me one post where anyone here said we should not sign Amare, instead we should resign Lee. Show me one post from anyone.

OR

Just keep making stuff up.

Tell Andrew and Martin to have a search function here and I will.

typical. you're gonna hide behind that?

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=35538

As of right now--as is the Knicks are no better than last year---Lee and Stoudemire is a wash. Its like we traded Lee for Stoudemire. Its every move after this that will show us if we actually get better or not--if anyone really think Stoudemire is appreciably better than Lee--wrong.

"How does my ass taste?" - Shaq

well good job. You found ONE person. And everyone else to a head says sorry, but Amare is better, can take over a game etc.

Also I bet after a couple preseason games Briggs would change that statement but for now enjoy being happy with yourself.

Back to reality which you choose to dodge at every opportunitiy. Tell me again why we are paying double NOW for a guy we can sign for just money next offseason? You still dont get it. Even if Gall and AR dont become great players. If Gallo is nothing more than Peja light and AR a scorer and shotblocker off the bench we can still sign Melo, Parker, etc with our cap space.

If a team like the Magic make an offer or the bulls or even the Lakers for that matter. Melo maybe swayed to another team. Last year you saw how teams during the draft were dropping their roster for LeBron and the free agency. It can happen again a team might just go all out and leave the Knicks holding the bag again. You can't take that chance. Besides Walsh won't over pay it will be a good deal for both parties I think we have figured out by now that he is a good negotiator.

What team do you think would trade for a half a season mercenary and lose a lot of players in their rotation? If these teams do get desperate in the trading deadline then they better be prepared to lose their star players.

Most of Miami's deals were done during the draft where they cleared cap space so did the Bulls. Just imagine if the Lakers lose to the Heat in the finals they realize that they need to get better. Decide to drop players for cap space. FA comes around and Kobe is calling Melo to join him. Then what? All of a sudden you have two teams in for Melo's services. Same with Orlando they lose to Miami in the playoffs and realize they need upgrades to compete with Miami so they start create room to go after Melo. You guys are acting like its guaranteed that Melo once FA comes around Melo will be signing with us, there is no guarantee. Even if trade deadline comes and Lakers decide hey we need something to get us over the Heat. They call Denver and ask would you take Artest picks and possibly some other decent player for Melo. You think LaLa won't be happy in LA you think Melo won't consider LA.

Nalod
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10/20/2010  12:04 PM

Melo said NY.

Shot down Clips. Clips are not your fathers Clips.

LA LA in L.A. no no.

Melo don't say MickeyTown either.

MElo say NY. Don't matter if Nuggy's can do better. If Melo don't extend, they ain't gonna consimate a trade.

Ira
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10/20/2010  12:09 PM
I'm also warming up to the idea of trading assets to get Melo, but if we have to give up Gallo and AR, I'd want to bring in Lawson and give them Douglas - in other words get a legitimate point guard to back up Felton.
BRIGGS
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10/20/2010  12:10 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/20/2010  12:11 PM
grillco wrote:
Nalod wrote:I agree with Briggs that its the price you pay for Melo and that determines if its worth it.

Its not what Gallo is now that is bothersome but in a few years.

I could go:

Gallo
Eddy
TD

as the core drivers of a trade. That basically gives them Two first round talents and year Cap.

Is that enough? I don't know. We might have to take on a players contract we mignt not want in a multi player deal.

The rest of sweetners like 3mil in cash and 2nd rounders are not of interest to me.

I prefer we wait till seasons end but sign and trade is a likely event anyway. GS gave up assets to get Dlee. Basically Gallo is redundant if Melo is here so he would be traded as some point.

Can't base the loss of Gallo based on a few preseason games and sour grape on him. The kid could be really good!

Its all being done behind closed doors and we won't know anyting until there is smoke.

In Donnie we trust.

In Zeke we trust was the NYTimes Knick forum mantra for a time. The lesson is to becareful where you place your trust.

the problem is I think that guy is still pulling the strings. and he is a guy who holds no barriers in trades 3#1 for edd curry etc.. when no other team wanted him

RIP Crushalot😞
NYKBocker
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10/20/2010  12:15 PM
grillco wrote:
Nalod wrote:I agree with Briggs that its the price you pay for Melo and that determines if its worth it.

Its not what Gallo is now that is bothersome but in a few years.

I could go:

Gallo
Eddy
TD

as the core drivers of a trade. That basically gives them Two first round talents and year Cap.

Is that enough? I don't know. We might have to take on a players contract we mignt not want in a multi player deal.

The rest of sweetners like 3mil in cash and 2nd rounders are not of interest to me.

I prefer we wait till seasons end but sign and trade is a likely event anyway. GS gave up assets to get Dlee. Basically Gallo is redundant if Melo is here so he would be traded as some point.

Can't base the loss of Gallo based on a few preseason games and sour grape on him. The kid could be really good!

Its all being done behind closed doors and we won't know anyting until there is smoke.

In Donnie we trust.

In Zeke we trust was the NYTimes Knick forum mantra for a time. The lesson is to becareful where you place your trust.

I never trusted Popcorn Man.

loweyecue
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10/20/2010  12:20 PM
Nalod wrote:
Melo said NY.

Shot down Clips. Clips are not your fathers Clips.

LA LA in L.A. no no.

Melo don't say MickeyTown either.

MElo say NY. Don't matter if Nuggy's can do better. If Melo don't extend, they ain't gonna consimate a trade.

Now there's some real Carolinaspeak for you.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
thejerk
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10/20/2010  12:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/20/2010  12:29 PM
Can we even trade AR until December? Looks like, Gallo, Chandler, TD, and some picks would be the only thing we can give up at the moment...

oh yea and fatboy's contract...

nixluva
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10/20/2010  12:48 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
grillco wrote:
Nalod wrote:I agree with Briggs that its the price you pay for Melo and that determines if its worth it.

Its not what Gallo is now that is bothersome but in a few years.

I could go:

Gallo
Eddy
TD

as the core drivers of a trade. That basically gives them Two first round talents and year Cap.

Is that enough? I don't know. We might have to take on a players contract we mignt not want in a multi player deal.

The rest of sweetners like 3mil in cash and 2nd rounders are not of interest to me.

I prefer we wait till seasons end but sign and trade is a likely event anyway. GS gave up assets to get Dlee. Basically Gallo is redundant if Melo is here so he would be traded as some point.

Can't base the loss of Gallo based on a few preseason games and sour grape on him. The kid could be really good!

Its all being done behind closed doors and we won't know anyting until there is smoke.

In Donnie we trust.

In Zeke we trust was the NYTimes Knick forum mantra for a time. The lesson is to becareful where you place your trust.

the problem is I think that guy is still pulling the strings. and he is a guy who holds no barriers in trades 3#1 for edd curry etc.. when no other team wanted him


I don't think any of this is because of Zeke. He's Dolan's buddy, but this is all about Walsh. This off Season has been nothing like a typical Zeke offseason. Walsh has been his usual patient and methodical self. This Melo situation has also been done in his style, so I think we need to drop this whole idea that Zeke is somehow working this deal and pulling strings behind the scenes.
BRIGGS
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10/20/2010  12:52 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/20/2010  12:54 PM
Nuggets #1 priority per Hahn is salary cap relief this year

So we would either have to work with a team with cap space or a maximum TPE(I don't know if you can trade those or how they would work in a 3-4 team deal

"Bottom line is the Knicks have to find a way to work out a deal that results in Denver coming out of this with immediate financial savings (read: they get under the luxury tax threshold)," Hahn wrote in a Web chat. "That I know for a fact is a top priority for the Nugs."

Via Alan Hahn/Newsday (via Twitter)

Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69654/20101020/avoiding_luxury_tax_is_top_priority_for_denver_in_any_melo_trade/#ixzz12v1ybd9V

so all of the deals weve been hearing are hogwash--other teams have to be involved

RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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10/20/2010  12:58 PM
fishmike wrote:
iSergio wrote:
Uptown wrote:You make a deal for Melo in a heart beat. This team as currently constructed would be lucky to get an 8th seed at best. The boards infatuation with potential over proven allstar talent is headscracthing...


Same people who wanted to re-sign David Lee over signing Amar'e Stoudemire. LOL

find me one post where anyone here said we should not sign Amare, instead we should resign Lee. Show me one post from anyone.

OR

Just keep making stuff up.

if there's anyone who doesn't like people who make stuff up without having anything to back it up, it's fishmike.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
AnubisADL
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10/20/2010  1:03 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Nuggets #1 priority per Hahn is salary cap relief this year

So we would either have to work with a team with cap space or a maximum TPE(I don't know if you can trade those or how they would work in a 3-4 team deal

"Bottom line is the Knicks have to find a way to work out a deal that results in Denver coming out of this with immediate financial savings (read: they get under the luxury tax threshold)," Hahn wrote in a Web chat. "That I know for a fact is a top priority for the Nugs."

Via Alan Hahn/Newsday (via Twitter)

Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69654/20101020/avoiding_luxury_tax_is_top_priority_for_denver_in_any_melo_trade/#ixzz12v1ybd9V

so all of the deals weve been hearing are hogwash--other teams have to be involved

How so? Obviously they have the get the main structure of the deal in place before they can contact other teams.

NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
nixluva
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10/20/2010  1:10 PM
I seem to remember someone saying that keeping Lee would be better value than adding Amar'e. Does it really matter. I know i've had some change in view over the long course of this offseason. The important thing is will a deal for Melo be the right thing for this franchise even if we have to give up a ton to get him? It's a legit question. I think Donnie and Mike have a better handle on what they have on this roster and may just feel that it is in fact worth the cost.

I find it easy to make the argument that Melo/Anar'e/Felton is better than Amar'e/Felton/Gallo/AR/TD. If you can see that we'll be able to slide some of our other players up into the supporting cast roles and be just fine. I've come around to the idea that Melo would indeed be worth it, even tho he's an inefficient player. The thing with him is that he's a constant threat and an impact player, much like Amar'e. You simply can't take your attention off of him due to his aggressive nature. Guys like Gallo and AR are not as aggressive or versatile in how they can hurt you. I'd hate to lose TD and his great defense, but even that I think we can make up for to a certain degree.

It makes even more sense if we can get AZ healthy again. Then you have a lineup that is nearly perfect. Timo, Amar'e, Melo, AZ & Felton. That's a good five right there. Donnie and Mike have to be thinking that Amar'e and Melo are both RIGHT NOW players, whereas we have to wait on Gallo and AR. It could happen that they develop faster than it seem right now, but realistically they look like they could take another year or 2 and you won't have to wait one second for Melo!!! That is a huge incentive.

Rookie
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10/20/2010  1:27 PM
nixluva wrote:I seem to remember someone saying that keeping Lee would be better value than adding Amar'e. Does it really matter. I know i've had some change in view over the long course of this offseason. The important thing is will a deal for Melo be the right thing for this franchise even if we have to give up a ton to get him? It's a legit question. I think Donnie and Mike have a better handle on what they have on this roster and may just feel that it is in fact worth the cost.

I find it easy to make the argument that Melo/Anar'e/Felton is better than Amar'e/Felton/Gallo/AR/TD. If you can see that we'll be able to slide some of our other players up into the supporting cast roles and be just fine. I've come around to the idea that Melo would indeed be worth it, even tho he's an inefficient player. The thing with him is that he's a constant threat and an impact player, much like Amar'e. You simply can't take your attention off of him due to his aggressive nature. Guys like Gallo and AR are not as aggressive or versatile in how they can hurt you. I'd hate to lose TD and his great defense, but even that I think we can make up for to a certain degree.

It makes even more sense if we can get AZ healthy again. Then you have a lineup that is nearly perfect. Timo, Amar'e, Melo, AZ & Felton. That's a good five right there. Donnie and Mike have to be thinking that Amar'e and Melo are both RIGHT NOW players, whereas we have to wait on Gallo and AR. It could happen that they develop faster than it seem right now, but realistically they look like they could take another year or 2 and you won't have to wait one second for Melo!!! That is a huge incentive.

very nicely said...cosign that

When you talk about depth...i think if you prioritize, it's important to get the starting 5 right FIRST, then you can talk about depth. The starting 5 will be handling the bulk of the minutes and considering MDA's affinity for the short rotation...how deep is deep enough.

If you consider an 8 man rotation...with the starting 5 of Moz, Amare, Melo, Walker and Felton...you still have Turiaf, Chandler and Douglass on the depth chart (that's 8)....and then have Azubuike, Fields, Rautins and even Mason on the bench...(that's 12). So even if you add on Curry/Gallo/Randolph in a deal...we are still plenty deep barring injury. Would be nice to use some assets to pick up another big though as we would be a little thin at forward...but the good news is, we still have assets to improve this year.

Vmart
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10/20/2010  1:38 PM
nixluva wrote:I seem to remember someone saying that keeping Lee would be better value than adding Amar'e. Does it really matter. I know i've had some change in view over the long course of this offseason. The important thing is will a deal for Melo be the right thing for this franchise even if we have to give up a ton to get him? It's a legit question. I think Donnie and Mike have a better handle on what they have on this roster and may just feel that it is in fact worth the cost.

I find it easy to make the argument that Melo/Anar'e/Felton is better than Amar'e/Felton/Gallo/AR/TD. If you can see that we'll be able to slide some of our other players up into the supporting cast roles and be just fine. I've come around to the idea that Melo would indeed be worth it, even tho he's an inefficient player. The thing with him is that he's a constant threat and an impact player, much like Amar'e. You simply can't take your attention off of him due to his aggressive nature. Guys like Gallo and AR are not as aggressive or versatile in how they can hurt you. I'd hate to lose TD and his great defense, but even that I think we can make up for to a certain degree.

It makes even more sense if we can get AZ healthy again. Then you have a lineup that is nearly perfect. Timo, Amar'e, Melo, AZ & Felton. That's a good five right there. Donnie and Mike have to be thinking that Amar'e and Melo are both RIGHT NOW players, whereas we have to wait on Gallo and AR. It could happen that they develop faster than it seem right now, but realistically they look like they could take another year or 2 and you won't have to wait one second for Melo!!! That is a huge incentive.

That is exactly my sentiment. You lock up your superstars then build around them. In the Knicks case the starting five would be very strong and the bench would still have exceptional depth. I have to admit that if a deal needs to be made to add consistency to the Knicks then it needs to be made.

iSergio
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10/20/2010  2:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/20/2010  2:25 PM
I know it's only been Preseason but hasn't Landry Fields, Timofey Mozgov, Bill Walker, Kelenna Azubuike and Toney Douglas proven they can be rotation players? I don't get this idea that we're a team with no depth if we trade Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph for Carmelo Anthony. And if we are a little thin for a year, so what? We'll have a 1st Rounder and the MLE next summer to add that depth. Getting bench players is the least of importance when you're building a team. The main objective is getting those 3 Star players. With Amar'e Stoudemire and Melo, we'll have two and you never know - maybe Mozgov, Felton, Wilson Chandler or Douglas might develop into that third piece.
Childs2Dudley
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10/20/2010  2:26 PM
iSergio wrote:I know it's only been Preseason but hasn't Landry Fields, Timofey Mozgov, Bill Walker, Kelenna Azubuike and Toney Douglas proven they can be rotation players? I don't get this idea that we're a team with no depth if we trade Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph for Carmelo Anthony. And if we are a little thin for a year, so what? We'll have a 1st Rounder and the MLE next summer to add that depth. Getting bench players is the least of importance when you're building a team. The main objective is getting those 3 Star players. With Amar'e Stoudemire and Melo, we'll have two and you never know - maybe Mozgov, Felton, Wilson Chandler or Douglas might develop into that third piece.

Toney Douglas would also be traded in a potential Melo deal.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
oohah
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10/20/2010  2:30 PM
I'll take Stoudemire, Carmelo, and 3 random Ultimate Knicks free agent walk-ons over the Knicks as currently constructed, so if the deal is available, they should make the deal!

Seriously though, one can fill in a lot of role player type of positions with ingenuity, second round picks and free agent pickups. Stars don't come so easily.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
simrud
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10/20/2010  2:53 PM
Am I reading the article wrong, but where does it say that they are talking about including both Gallo and Randolph?

Sounds like the deal is either Gallo or Randolph + Curry + 1st round pick. Where Gallo/Randolph are traded to a 3rd team for a player the Nugs want more.

I don't see anything wrong with a deal like that. I would rather include Gallo since Camerlo is a SF and we already have Chandler and Fields deserving minutes at the 3 as well.

It might even make sense to include Chanlder in the trade for a more traditional as in a good shooter SG.

A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
ESPN: Knicks make significant progress on Carmelo trade

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