Paladin55 wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Ok. Maybe it's a bit too early to write off Beasley. It's only been 2 seasons and perhaps the kid was the inevitable byproduct of placing a kid with millions of dollars in Miami.

But as of right now Beasley being in the same class as Westbrook/Lopez seems ridiculous.

Great players usually hit the ground running.

I was initially going to say maybe Beasley is a Lamar Odom type but Odom was pretty nice in his rookie season.

Beasley
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3327/career;_ylt=Aqge0.4JisSjuUcBTN6FPnNYPKB4

Odom
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3327/career;_ylt=Aqge0.4JisSjuUcBTN6FPnNYPKB4

I'm confused as to why you seem so eager to poop on the Knicks this season. Was the point of this post to say Randolph is overrated or that Beasley is underrated?

You are trying to use reason with someone who has been blinded by this:

You can't have a real argument with someone who has a player-crush on someone.

Funny thing is that you can probably make individual cases that Mayo, Westbrook, Love, Gallo, Gordon, Thompson, and B.Lopez might all have been better picks for Miami at the #2 slot, or that the Heat should have traded out of their position. Then you have guys like Randolph, Speights and McGee who may, when all is said and done, be recognized as players who contributed more to their team's success that Beasley.

But Pal, all those players have done diddily.

Other than Mayo being part of an improving Grizz squad, Westbrook performing pretty damn well against the eventual champions, Love having one of the (if not the) highest rebounding rates in the league, Gallo leading in 3 pointers and not backing down against Melo, Gordon being a valuable player on the first US squad to win the FIBA championships in a while, Brook Lopez establishing himself as one of the best young centers in the league..

other than that these players have done diddily.

Michael Beasley is easily as good as all of them except for MAYBE Lopez or Westbrook.

"You serious? 90% of the players you posted have done diddly in the NBA.
LOL at Pat Riley not trading Anthony Randolph instead of signing Lebron and Bosh."

loved that one.

I'm not saying the guy has no chance at being useful one day but why are you so determined to prove he's better than Randolph? What's the point?

By the way it's funny that dude has had time to post in other threads and hasn't responded since he unleashed this gem:

AnubisADL
Posts: 2285
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 6/29/2009
Member: #2771
USA
9/20/2010 1:37 PM

Russel Westbrook plays PG which means he has the ball in his hands alot more. He also plays next to Durant. Westbrook is super talented but Im pretty sure Miami doesnt let him play the way he does for the Thunder.
Brook Lopez's first year stats arent mind blowing. His 2nd year stats are GREAT for NBA center with 18 and 9 but his team still won only 12 games.
You cant have it both ways. If we just look at stats and negate the teams records then yes Beasley should have been taken after those guys. However, IF Beasley puts up gaudy stats for Minny and they are still bottom feeders then will you say he deserved to be drafted 2nd? I doubt it.

Um..Michael Beasley plays next to Dwayne Wade. What's your point???

Brook Lopez is 7 feet tall, can rebound, block shots and score. There are barely a handful of 7 footers in the entire league who can do that let alone young ones.

I don't get the logic in a lot of your posts.

Are you trying to say that Westbrook had it easier because he was playing next to a star in Durant?
By that logic..Beasley should have had it easier because he was playing next to Dwayne Wade.

You say: Brook Lopez isn't that great because he put up stats on a 12 win team.

but if I say (and I haven't) that Beasley isn't that great after this season because he put up stats on a losing team...then I'm being unfair?

At first I was getting annoyed because you talk down to people like you're an authority on basketball but then ridiculous statements like Beasley vs Westbrook vs Lopez is debatable come out of your mouth.

Now I'm more confused then annoyed because I have no clue what you're trying to say.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Ok. Maybe it's a bit too early to write off Beasley. It's only been 2 seasons and perhaps the kid was the inevitable byproduct of placing a kid with millions of dollars in Miami.

But as of right now Beasley being in the same class as Westbrook/Lopez seems ridiculous.

Great players usually hit the ground running.

I was initially going to say maybe Beasley is a Lamar Odom type but Odom was pretty nice in his rookie season.

Beasley
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3327/career;_ylt=Aqge0.4JisSjuUcBTN6FPnNYPKB4

Odom
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3327/career;_ylt=Aqge0.4JisSjuUcBTN6FPnNYPKB4

I'm confused as to why you seem so eager to poop on the Knicks this season. Was the point of this post to say Randolph is overrated or that Beasley is underrated?

You are trying to use reason with someone who has been blinded by this:

You can't have a real argument with someone who has a player-crush on someone.

Funny thing is that you can probably make individual cases that Mayo, Westbrook, Love, Gallo, Gordon, Thompson, and B.Lopez might all have been better picks for Miami at the #2 slot, or that the Heat should have traded out of their position. Then you have guys like Randolph, Speights and McGee who may, when all is said and done, be recognized as players who contributed more to their team's success that Beasley.

But Pal, all those players have done diddily.

Other than Mayo being part of an improving Grizz squad, Westbrook performing pretty damn well against the eventual champions, Love having one of the (if not the) highest rebounding rates in the league, Gallo leading in 3 pointers and not backing down against Melo, Gordon being a valuable player on the first US squad to win the FIBA championships in a while, Brook Lopez establishing himself as one of the best young centers in the league..

other than that these players have done diddily.

Michael Beasley is easily as good as all of them except for MAYBE Lopez or Westbrook.

"You serious? 90% of the players you posted have done diddly in the NBA.
LOL at Pat Riley not trading Anthony Randolph instead of signing Lebron and Bosh."

loved that one.

I'm not saying the guy has no chance at being useful one day but why are you so determined to prove he's better than Randolph? What's the point?

By the way it's funny that dude has had time to post in other threads and hasn't responded since he unleashed this gem:

AnubisADL
Posts: 2285
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 6/29/2009
Member: #2771
USA
9/20/2010 1:37 PM

Russel Westbrook plays PG which means he has the ball in his hands alot more. He also plays next to Durant. Westbrook is super talented but Im pretty sure Miami doesnt let him play the way he does for the Thunder.
Brook Lopez's first year stats arent mind blowing. His 2nd year stats are GREAT for NBA center with 18 and 9 but his team still won only 12 games.
You cant have it both ways. If we just look at stats and negate the teams records then yes Beasley should have been taken after those guys. However, IF Beasley puts up gaudy stats for Minny and they are still bottom feeders then will you say he deserved to be drafted 2nd? I doubt it.

Um..Michael Beasley plays next to Dwayne Wade. What's your point???

Brook Lopez is 7 feet tall, can rebound, block shots and score. There are barely a handful of 7 footers in the entire league who can do that let alone young ones.

I don't get the logic in a lot of your posts.

Are you trying to say that Westbrook had it easier because he was playing next to a star in Durant?
By that logic..Beasley should have had it easier because he was playing next to Dwayne Wade.

You say: Brook Lopez isn't that great because he put up stats on a 12 win team.

but if I say (and I haven't) that Beasley isn't that great after this season because he put up stats on a losing team...then I'm being unfair?

At first I was getting annoyed because you talk down to people like you're an authority on basketball but then ridiculous statements like Beasley vs Westbrook vs Lopez is debatable come out of your mouth.

Now I'm more confused then annoyed because I have no clue what you're trying to say.

- I'm not trying to prop Beasley above Randolph. Im simply trying to show the parity between the two players.

- As I said Westbrook and Lopez are debatable and I will add OJ Mayo. I will say Westbrook, Lopez, and Mayo are allowed to start for their teams and given more rope to make mistakes without getting sent to the bench. Beasley will have that privilege this upcoming year.

AnubisADL wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Ok. Maybe it's a bit too early to write off Beasley. It's only been 2 seasons and perhaps the kid was the inevitable byproduct of placing a kid with millions of dollars in Miami.

But as of right now Beasley being in the same class as Westbrook/Lopez seems ridiculous.

Great players usually hit the ground running.

I was initially going to say maybe Beasley is a Lamar Odom type but Odom was pretty nice in his rookie season.

Beasley
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3327/career;_ylt=Aqge0.4JisSjuUcBTN6FPnNYPKB4

Odom
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3327/career;_ylt=Aqge0.4JisSjuUcBTN6FPnNYPKB4

I'm confused as to why you seem so eager to poop on the Knicks this season. Was the point of this post to say Randolph is overrated or that Beasley is underrated?

You are trying to use reason with someone who has been blinded by this:

You can't have a real argument with someone who has a player-crush on someone.

Funny thing is that you can probably make individual cases that Mayo, Westbrook, Love, Gallo, Gordon, Thompson, and B.Lopez might all have been better picks for Miami at the #2 slot, or that the Heat should have traded out of their position. Then you have guys like Randolph, Speights and McGee who may, when all is said and done, be recognized as players who contributed more to their team's success that Beasley.

But Pal, all those players have done diddily.

Other than Mayo being part of an improving Grizz squad, Westbrook performing pretty damn well against the eventual champions, Love having one of the (if not the) highest rebounding rates in the league, Gallo leading in 3 pointers and not backing down against Melo, Gordon being a valuable player on the first US squad to win the FIBA championships in a while, Brook Lopez establishing himself as one of the best young centers in the league..

other than that these players have done diddily.

Michael Beasley is easily as good as all of them except for MAYBE Lopez or Westbrook.

"You serious? 90% of the players you posted have done diddly in the NBA.
LOL at Pat Riley not trading Anthony Randolph instead of signing Lebron and Bosh."

loved that one.

I'm not saying the guy has no chance at being useful one day but why are you so determined to prove he's better than Randolph? What's the point?

By the way it's funny that dude has had time to post in other threads and hasn't responded since he unleashed this gem:

AnubisADL
Posts: 2285
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 6/29/2009
Member: #2771
USA
9/20/2010 1:37 PM

Russel Westbrook plays PG which means he has the ball in his hands alot more. He also plays next to Durant. Westbrook is super talented but Im pretty sure Miami doesnt let him play the way he does for the Thunder.
Brook Lopez's first year stats arent mind blowing. His 2nd year stats are GREAT for NBA center with 18 and 9 but his team still won only 12 games.
You cant have it both ways. If we just look at stats and negate the teams records then yes Beasley should have been taken after those guys. However, IF Beasley puts up gaudy stats for Minny and they are still bottom feeders then will you say he deserved to be drafted 2nd? I doubt it.

Um..Michael Beasley plays next to Dwayne Wade. What's your point???

Brook Lopez is 7 feet tall, can rebound, block shots and score. There are barely a handful of 7 footers in the entire league who can do that let alone young ones.

I don't get the logic in a lot of your posts.

Are you trying to say that Westbrook had it easier because he was playing next to a star in Durant?
By that logic..Beasley should have had it easier because he was playing next to Dwayne Wade.

You say: Brook Lopez isn't that great because he put up stats on a 12 win team.

but if I say (and I haven't) that Beasley isn't that great after this season because he put up stats on a losing team...then I'm being unfair?

At first I was getting annoyed because you talk down to people like you're an authority on basketball but then ridiculous statements like Beasley vs Westbrook vs Lopez is debatable come out of your mouth.

Now I'm more confused then annoyed because I have no clue what you're trying to say.

- I'm not trying to prop Beasley above Randolph. Im simply trying to show the parity between the two players.

- As I said Westbrook and Lopez are debatable and I will add OJ Mayo. I will say Westbrook, Lopez, and Mayo are allowed to start for their teams and given more rope to make mistakes without getting sent to the bench. Beasley will have that privilege this upcoming year.

- Why are you trying to show the parity of the two players? I am not understanding this.

- I don't think it's debatable at all.

- Again... you poo-pooed the accomplishments of other players in that draft because they were on teams with low win totals. (by the way..generally if you're a high draft pick..you're going to a crappy team)

So if Beasley puts up stats but his team doesn't win..should his accomplishments be discounted?

Again YOU did that not me.

How are you measuring these players against each other anyway???

Again I think Beasley still has a shot at getting his crap together but your arguments just seem very disjointed and all over the place.

How about comparing Wins produced per 82 games? or Wins produced by 3000 minutes?

WP82

Beasley 2009: 2.8
Randolph 2009: 1.1

Beasley 2010: 4.5
Randolph 2010: 0.4

Beasley averaged 29:53 and played in 78 games.
Randolph averaged 22 minutes and played in 33 games.

If you go to per minute stats instead (Randolph was injured and in the doghouse for the majority of the year)

Wins produced per 3,000 minutes

Beasley 2010: 8.6
Randolph 2010: 8.9

Randolph:

Advanced Value Statistics
AGE	Year	TM	        Min%	P40	R40	A40	eFG%	TS%	Reb%	Pass	Usg	+/-40	ORtg	DRtg	Bias	Win%	WARP
20	2009	Golden State     0.3	17.7	12.9	1.7	0.462	0.506	17.5	0.06	0.188	-3.3	105.7	103.5	-3.0	0.571	3.6
21	2010	Golden State     0.2	20.5	11.5	2.2	0.445	0.521	16.1	0.14	0.247	0.0	106.4	102.9	-1.7	0.615	3.1
Advanced Skill Statistics
AGE	Year	TM	         FG%	FT%	3P%	2P%	OR%	DR%	Ast%	Stl%	Blk%	2A%	3A%	FTA%	TO%	BA%	PF%
20	2009	Golden State     0.462	0.716	0.000	0.466	12.4	22.7	1.9	1.8	4.6	0.75	0.01	0.11	0.1	0.08	0.05
21	2010	Golden State     0.443	0.801	0.200	0.447	10.7	21.5	2.4	1.8	4.9	0.73	0.01	0.14	0.1	0.00	0.05

Beasley
Advanced Value Statistics
AGE	Year	TM	        Min%	P40	R40	A40	eFG%	TS%	Reb%	Pass	Usg	+/-40	ORtg	DRtg	Bias	Win%	WARP
20	2009	Miami Heat	0.5	22.4	8.7	1.7	0.490	0.559	13.2	0.06	0.279	0.1	105.7	106.3	-0.2	0.478	2.6
21	2010	Miami Heat	0.6	19.9	8.6	1.7	0.463	0.505	12.4	0.07	0.275	0.0	104.0	104.7	-2.3	0.477	2.8
Advanced Skill Statistics
AGE	Year	TM	        FG%	FT%	3P%	2P%	OR%	DR%	Ast%	Stl%	Blk%	2A%	3A%	FTA%	TO%	BA%	PF%
20	2009	Miami Heat	0.472	0.772	0.407	0.478	6.5	19.8	2.0	1.1	1.5	0.74	0.07	0.09	0.1	0.08	0.04
21	2010	Miami Heat	0.450	0.804	0.263	0.468	6.3	18.5	2.0	1.8	1.7	0.74	0.08	0.08	0.1	0.00	0.04

If you go by something like WARP, Randolph seems a bit better than Beasley.

Let's see what happens this year. I'm rooting for both kids to take the next step in their careers but I'm rooting much harder for Randolph because

a) He's a Knick
b) He never really got playing time. Most of the time I would say that happens because the Coach is smart and he doesn't like what he sees in practice or something. But Don Nelson is a bit crazy.