Nalod wrote:Melo Vs. ?????? is not a one on one tournament we talking here.

Im not convinced Melo has the heart and desire that a max player should have.

Amare does.

Melo only under Billups steped it up.

I know he is an all star caliber player who scores alot of points. Nice player, no doubt.

Just not a franchise Alpha dog.

And to me thats who gets the big big money!

Melo at the right price.

Before we need to compete at the championship level we need to be middle of the pack first!!!!!

AR is so great he was traded for a sign and trade for DLEE. I love Dlee, but lets not annoint AR god status, but lets not trade him either so fast.

Melo wants to come he knows there is money here for him, and a supporting cast to win. If he just wants a trade, then there is one or the other but no both.

AnubisADL wrote:

tkf wrote:I understand Kroenke's postion here. As an owner of several sports franchises and big corporations he is not going to get bullied by a bunch of clown middlemen and agents. These owners have to protect their interest, they draft players, pay them well, try to surround them with good talent at a huge expense and then all of a sudden guys want to jump up and leave to be close to home, near their families, to play with their homies.. I mean when does it end.... On the other hand, I do think the players at some point should have the right to chose where they want to play , and that is when they are a Free agent.. for melo, it is next year.. play out this year melo and you can go where ever you want bro... Trying to bully teams is becomming a trend I am not sure I like..

It isnt really bullying. I think Melo making it known to the front office that he plans on leaving helps them try to get value for him. He could play the season and bounce at the end of the season and leave Denver with NOTHING. Regardless he can do whatever he wants in less than 10 months.

Melo giving them a heads up lets both parties try to get what they want.

good way to look at it, but reading the story, it seems as if some bullying tactics are being employed... although it may look like a favor, when you come out publicly and say you want out, you are taking a lot of negotiating power from your team.. so really, is carmelo doing the nuggs a favor?

Paladin55 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

tkf wrote:I understand Kroenke's postion here. As an owner of several sports franchises and big corporations he is not going to get bullied by a bunch of clown middlemen and agents. These owners have to protect their interest, they draft players, pay them well, try to surround them with good talent at a huge expense and then all of a sudden guys want to jump up and leave to be close to home, near their families, to play with their homies.. I mean when does it end.... On the other hand, I do think the players at some point should have the right to chose where they want to play , and that is when they are a Free agent.. for melo, it is next year.. play out this year melo and you can go where ever you want bro... Trying to bully teams is becomming a trend I am not sure I like..

It isnt really bullying. I think Melo making it known to the front office that he plans on leaving helps them try to get value for him. He could play the season and bounce at the end of the season and leave Denver with NOTHING. Regardless he can do whatever he wants in less than 10 months.

Melo giving them a heads up lets both parties try to get what they want.

Somehow I don't think the Denver brass saw CAA's/Melos bullying, do it now tactic, as a "heads up."

And demands like his don't really help Denver's leverage with other teams when talking trade. Teams are more likely to tell Denver that they are not going to give up the assets Denver wants because they know for sure that Melo's career in Denver is over, and if they wait they can get him for less, via trade or free agency, when they can sign him for a 5 year deal, instead of the 3 year extension deal probably involved in a S&T.

good post.. you beat me to it..

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:Carmelo Anthony is obviously not as good as LeCon but he's one of few players who can go toe to toe and shot for shot against him. And Melo is 8-4 in his career against LeCon. That should count for something.

Let's say Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Anthony Randolph become and develope to the level of Detlef Schrempf, Corey Maggette and Tayshaun Prince (which is the most realistic scenario). You wouldn't trade these 2 of these 3 for Melo?

Let's say Gallo, Chandler and Randolph become and develop inb Dirk Nowitzki, Xavier McDaniel and Marcus Camby with PG like skills. You wouldnt trade 2 of those 3 for Melo?

No thanks. For Lebron? Yes. For Wade? Yes. Melo isnt a top 10 player. Most like top 20, and he's not making the other guys around him better. Its not like we already have a 25 year old Tim Duncan and need a scorer to put next to him. Melo is like 2 steps forward, 4 steps back. Better short term but its a 50 win ceiling team. Been there done that

Fish, I know you want to keep Chandler, Gallo and AR but lets not discredit Melo's accomplishments it really hurts your point when you say he isn't a top 10 player when he is.

Dirk
Lebron
Wade
Dwight
CP3
Gasol
Deron Williams
Steve Nash
Kevin Durant
Kobe

There's your top 10. Please tell me which guy your knocking off that list for Melo to be a top 10 guy.

the next 10:
Amare
Tyreke Evens
Melo
Billups
Granger
Joe Johnson
Derrick Rose
Gerald Wallace
...
... you get the idea

Sorry. Melo not top ten, and because he does VERY little else than score he's less valuable than some of the other guys in that bottom list. He's not a PG, he doesnt make teammates better, he doesnt defend, average rebounder, etc

Dude can score. Give him that, but I would rather have a couple of 6'10 versatile guys who impact w/ scoring, defense, rebounding...

Its team sport, not a 2on2 playground game

Any player that consistently gets his team into the playoffs year in and year out is an elite player. Melo never had the luxury of having another superstar around. Wade, Kobe and LeBron are prime example of players that were not able to get championships without a superstar. Wade needed Shaq, Kobe needed Shaq and Gasol. LeBron is trying to tag along with star players hoping to get a ring. What I don't understand about the thinking here is that Melo never had the luxury of playing with a star player just look at the players that he has worked with and you will see that never did he play with a superstar that was in his prime Kmart is damaged goods, Nene a serviceable center, JR Smith is not a great player decent player probably a backup on most teams. Billups a steady pg that is past his prime. AI is probably the best player that he has played with and at that time his decline was already evident. Melo as a focal point consistently gets his team to 50+ wins. Team him up with Amare and Felton and you are talking lock for playoffs as an upper seeded team.

I do believe that his extention contract will be a cap constraining deal but I have enough faith in Walsh to get a favorable deal in place. He will make it known that Melo for the current deal and when he becomes a FA he will give him a max FA contract at 6 years. He will let Melo know that he has a plan in effect and an extension deal will severely hinder the plan.

As far as your list is concerned I'm gonna take a few of your guys out of the list. Nash, Dirk, Wade, Williams. I'm taking Nash out because as you say Melo doesn't play defense neither does Nash. Dirk getting old and no longer can make it out of the first round either. Wade seen him get lite up by crawford for 53 points also saw Nate drop point on him at will. Wade didn't make it past first round either. I'm not putting him elite status. If Melo ain't elite then Wade is out too. Melo never had the luxury of playing with Shaq who still was dominant in a league that was basically centerless. Melo is top ten player that is a fact consistently gets his team into playoffs has not missed it since coming into the league. 50+ wins consistently. His team asks him to score he does it and does it well. I don't buy this high volume shooter nonsense. 46% is not a bad percentage go look at Kobe's percentage and you will see that he is right there with Kobe's number. He may not be the stopper that Kobe is Kobe is sg remember that. His game is a little differnet than Melo's. I want Melo on the Knicks. If it means giving some players up for him I will be accepting of the deal as long as he comes in on his current deal.

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:I'd take Carmelo Anthony over Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol and Steve Nash.

good for you. Dirk and Nash have 3 MVPs. Gasol shoots > 50%, lives at the line and gets 12 boards a game. But you would rather have the guy who shoots it 20x a game at < 46% (which is actually below the league average). Melo doesnt even make the all star game every year lol

Who is overrating who now?

Melo couldnt even shut down Gallo! A lousy 15/6 soft euro rookie!

Awesome! Lets give up 10 first rounders for him also.

Sergio.. you used to say David Lee was the worst defensive player in the league. 2nd worst... you forgot Carmello

Gasol is top 10 because he plays with a superstar in Kobe. Take Kobe out and he is no longer top ten. He is as he is was with Memphis. Kobe without Gasol is lower seeded playoff team. You team up Melo, Amare and you are talking a top notch team. May not be top team but 2-3-4 is not out of the question.

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:
THANKS man, and I see your point about the knicks and doing what is best for us. Yes, miami played by what seemed to be their own set of rules, and in order to compete with them, you have to step up your game.. that is true... But here is my problem..

Miami has both lebron and wade.. both guys arguable are better than melo.. lebron especially.. so how is getting melo going to give us a chance vs the Heat? doesn't it make sense to beat them with depth and overall talent? Do you really think a team with amare and melo along with what we will have left will be enough? I don't.. so why take that chance.. lets build onto what we have... I like melo as a player, but the guy is pretty much an elite scorer.. do you think that makes the knicks a contender? this is not a KG trade in which KG came into a situation with two HOF players in pierce and allen joining them.. Plus KG gave you a big who could score and control the paint...and I mean control the Paint!! for me, I am sorry, I don't think melo and his 28ppg is going to scare the heat, and at such a huge price, we really have to think this through..espeically for a guy who is going to be a FA at the end of the season..

boy thats the real kicker. Not only are we better building a superior team w/ size, skill and depth, but the guy in question? could be signed outright at the end of the year.

I get your hungry now. Trading in a bag of groceries for a bigmac you have to pay $50 for is not smart

yea, I like what we are building.. and the fact that melo can be a FA at the end of the year is the kicker..

LOL.. good example with the big mac.. haha

We had Lebron in the bag remember?

The Knicks waiting around for Carmelo to fall into our hands is a recipe for disaster. We thought Stephen Curry was going to fall to us instead of moving up to get him. If we want Melo we need to go get him.

If we wanted to rebuild we wouldnt have invested 100 million in Amare. We get Melo and give him his 3 yr extension and him and Amare both will expire the same year. We'd have a 5 yr window to see what this team can do.

iSergio wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Do not want to give up Gallo or AR + have Anthony with a 25mm $ contract that shuts us down. I want to stay the course and build a nice deep team that will go for 10+ years. I only pray that the Knicks do this.

Some here are not interested in winning 60 games with Stars. They don't want to be the Boston Celtics, Los Angeles Lakers or Miami Heat. They want to be the Portland Trail Blazers, Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Clippers and hope to win 45 games with a bunch of young players.

TRANSLATION: iSergio is a starphucker with his sights set on winning now (a la Jimmy D, Isaiah, Layden, etc.); Briggs is more patient, prefers to build through yoots and looking for longer term success.

Both positions have merit. We've waited a long time for a good team. I don't think adding Melo makes us a contender right away. I am more in the Briggs camp on this, unless we can get away with trading Curry/Gallo + 2014 pick. I'd HATE losing Gallo, but if we get Melo in return, they are redundant to some extent. AR offers more for us long term if we are going with Melo.

Like Briggs, however, I don't think we need Melo. I think Gallo is going to turn a lot of heads this season and may actually turn out to BE our future superstar. No matter what we do, we should nt jump in with both feet and offer BOTH Gallo and AR. Hell, we shouldn't even offer BOTH Gallo and Chandler. Why overpay? We have a solid team now. If other teams want him so bad and he's willing to forego that legacy thing, so be it.

A little birdie told me that Melo has his eyes on the real prize, which can only be found on the hardwood at the Garden.

Moonangie wrote:

fishmike wrote:
Me too. I want to challenge Miami also and win titles, which is exactly why I DONT want Melo.

Sorry, but blowing your wad on Melo doesnt = 60 wins. He's never won 60 w/ some loaded teams in Denver, why is he doing it here.

If you goal is to beat a team like Miami getting Melo isnt getting it done. I thing Amare (easily) wins the Bosh matchup. After that? Wade and Lebron will destroy Melo and Felton in a 7 game series. Melo just isnt in the same class as those guys.

IF you want to beat a star loaded team like Miami the only way to do it is build a TEAM that can smother you on BOTH ends of the court and on the glass as well.

You do that with SIZE and SKILL. Just like Detroit did against the Lakers a few years ago.

Gallo and Randolph arent stars (yet), but they are the kind of player you need to build a team like I am talking about. You have 3 gays who are 6'10 and can play 2-3 different positions at any time, that can give you problems on both ends of the court.

You also need great defense. Gallo has already shown he's dedicated to defending. AR has first team NBA potential. You talking about a guy w/ a PG's handle who can push the ball up the floor, but can also block shots and rebound with anyone.

You trade AR+Gallo for Anthony and you just signed up for 5 years of 48-52 wins and maybe a trip or two to the ECF only to get beat by one of the 2-3 teams that are better than you every year.

I'll pass and work on something better.

Melo plays ZERO defense.

Funny little typo there.

so that's his plan. i bet he's gonna want to go after bargnani now to bring in a 4th.

Until someone makes a "decision", im going on a self imposted all out exclusion deletion of my inner Nalod and will not speak or be spoken too about this.

I was talking the other day about knicks with other hoop fans and I found myself way too knowlegeable about this abstract situation and the complexity and yet I forgot to pick up napkins at the grocery store after my wife asked me to.

So I might actually know all about melo but when my family needed simple precut absorbing generic paper product to which extract excess neutrition around their mouths, but I, the hunter and gatherer of my clan was unable to perform even such a simple task. But yet, I know the details about Carmelo's house for sale, his current contract, the extension, the CBA, team cap space, the Denvers ownership divesture to allow NFL owernship, There GM hiring details, Still can't spell the new GM's name, and Briggs and Sergio's position in minute detail then perhaps its time to lay low.

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:I'd take Carmelo Anthony over Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol and Steve Nash.

good for you. Dirk and Nash have 3 MVPs. Gasol shoots > 50%, lives at the line and gets 12 boards a game. But you would rather have the guy who shoots it 20x a game at < 46% (which is actually below the league average). Melo doesnt even make the all star game every year lol

Who is overrating who now?

Melo couldnt even shut down Gallo! A lousy 15/6 soft euro rookie!

Awesome! Lets give up 10 first rounders for him also.

Sergio.. you used to say David Lee was the worst defensive player in the league. 2nd worst... you forgot Carmello

Gasol is top 10 because he plays with a superstar in Kobe. Take Kobe out and he is no longer top ten. He is as he is was with Memphis. Kobe without Gasol is lower seeded playoff team. You team up Melo, Amare and you are talking a top notch team. May not be top team but 2-3-4 is not out of the question.

really? Funny... you could say Kobe is a superstar because he played w/ Shaq and then Gasol

Lets recap:
After Shaq and no Gasol:
Kobe: lottery
Kobe: lost in first round
Kobe: lost in first round
Gasol comes to Lakers:
Kobe + Gasol: West Conf Champs
Kobe + Gasol: NBA champs
Kobe + Gasol: NBA champs

Pretty sure over a 6 year sample there is a clear pattern there. And by the way, Gasol got the Grizz into the playoffs at least 3 years.

Gasol is good but top 10 is CRAZY talk. Swap KG with Gasol and I dont see Boston winning a dam thing.

AnubisADL wrote:
Gasol is good but top 10 is CRAZY talk. Swap KG with Gasol and I dont see Boston winning a dam thing.

What's crazy is that we've agreed twice in one day now.
Gasol totally over-rated, IMO.
He just flails around hoping to get bumped so he can flop to the floor and shoot free throws.
Painful on the eyes.