What about the existing strip club in the same block of "hallowed ground" as Park51?

Tim McVeigh was a Christian as evidenced by the fact that he asked for and received Catholic last rights prior to his execution.

Given this, I think all Christian Churches and right wing organizations, e.g., the local Republican Party Headquarters, should be kept a respectful distance from the Oklahoma City bombing. Our second worst terrorist attack.

Once this is done, we can talk about moving the Mosque.

misterearl wrote:Burlington Coat Factory

What about the existing strip club in the same block of "hallowed ground" as Park51?

Tim McVeigh was a Christian as evidenced by the fact that he asked for and received Catholic last rights prior to his execution.

Given this, I think all Christian Churches and right wing organizations, e.g., the local Republican Party Headquarters, should be kept a respectful distance from the Oklahoma City bombing. Our second worst terrorist attack.

Once this is done, we can talk about moving the Mosque.

this. and we should also stop calling NY the Mecca of basketball. Just sounds too Muslim.

misterearl wrote:Burlington Coat Factory

What about the existing strip club in the same block of "hallowed ground" as Park51?

Tim McVeigh was a Christian as evidenced by the fact that he asked for and received Catholic last rights prior to his execution.

Given this, I think all Christian Churches and right wing organizations, e.g., the local Republican Party Headquarters, should be kept a respectful distance from the Oklahoma City bombing. Our second worst terrorist attack.

Once this is done, we can talk about moving the Mosque.

I think this argument is a bit out there. Did Tim McVeigh use a holy war for his religion as the basis for his attack? If not, I think this misses the point of why people may feel the way they do.

Again, I don't have strong feelings on this one; it doesn't really matter to me either way. But, I can understand why it might be uncomfortable for some people and why they may view it as a bit tactless.

Say What?

Solace - enough with the generalizations employed such as "some people" or trying to speak for other people, however "they" feel can only be expressed one personal comment at a time.

If it doesn't matter to you either way, just leave it at that. Hiding behind other person's imagined opinion is never cool or courageous.

misterearl wrote:Burlington Coat Factory

What about the existing strip club in the same block of "hallowed ground" as Park51?

Tim McVeigh was a Christian as evidenced by the fact that he asked for and received Catholic last rights prior to his execution.

Given this, I think all Christian Churches and right wing organizations, e.g., the local Republican Party Headquarters, should be kept a respectful distance from the Oklahoma City bombing. Our second worst terrorist attack.

Once this is done, we can talk about moving the Mosque.

martin wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:If a significant number of the residents near the OKC bombing got together and complained how hurtful a church there was, then the church should not be built there. Has this happened? Was the OKC bombing done in the name of Jesus? No and no. your argument is just irrelevant.

misterearl wrote:Burlington Coat Factory

What about the existing strip club in the same block of "hallowed ground" as Park51?

Tim McVeigh was a Christian as evidenced by the fact that he asked for and received Catholic last rights prior to his execution.

Given this, I think all Christian Churches and right wing organizations, e.g., the local Republican Party Headquarters, should be kept a respectful distance from the Oklahoma City bombing. Our second worst terrorist attack.

Once this is done, we can talk about moving the Mosque.

and if so, so is the argument that the terrorists did their terrorism in the name of religion. they did it in the name of terrorism, nothing more. and that is the real point.

OldFan wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:They may not represent Islam or Muslims but they most certainly did do it in Islam's name and not terrorism. There is a difference and that difference doesn't smear Islam. To just state they did it in the name of terrorism and is just to put on the politically correct blinders. Just like the Ft Hood shooter did it in the name of Islam and not some nebulous 'name of terrorism'. Doesn't mean that Islam is intrinsically violent but these acts were done with Islam as inspiration, rightly interpreted or not. These weren't just mindless psychopaths but they believed they were on the side of right.

martin wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:If a significant number of the residents near the OKC bombing got together and complained how hurtful a church there was, then the church should not be built there. Has this happened? Was the OKC bombing done in the name of Jesus? No and no. your argument is just irrelevant.

misterearl wrote:Burlington Coat Factory

What about the existing strip club in the same block of "hallowed ground" as Park51?

Tim McVeigh was a Christian as evidenced by the fact that he asked for and received Catholic last rights prior to his execution.

Given this, I think all Christian Churches and right wing organizations, e.g., the local Republican Party Headquarters, should be kept a respectful distance from the Oklahoma City bombing. Our second worst terrorist attack.

Once this is done, we can talk about moving the Mosque.

and if so, so is the argument that the terrorists did their terrorism in the name of religion. they did it in the name of terrorism, nothing more. and that is the real point.

So if the terrorists said they did it for "ShakeandBake" - you would then avoid ground zero.

The issue is that unless you believe the people building the Mosque have something to do with the terrorists there is no reason for them not to build their Mosque and there is no reason it would be offense. Indeed not doing it would be playing into the hands of those who want to associate them with terrorism.

Unless you actually believe they are associated with the terrorists what reason can you give for them not to build the Mosque?

They are not responsible for what other people believe. If someone accused you of being associated with some crime you did not commit would you say - "Because you think I'm guilty I'll leave town to avoid offending you".

martin wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:If a significant number of the residents near the OKC bombing got together and complained how hurtful a church there was, then the church should not be built there. Has this happened? Was the OKC bombing done in the name of Jesus? No and no. your argument is just irrelevant.

misterearl wrote:Burlington Coat Factory

What about the existing strip club in the same block of "hallowed ground" as Park51?

Tim McVeigh was a Christian as evidenced by the fact that he asked for and received Catholic last rights prior to his execution.

Given this, I think all Christian Churches and right wing organizations, e.g., the local Republican Party Headquarters, should be kept a respectful distance from the Oklahoma City bombing. Our second worst terrorist attack.

Once this is done, we can talk about moving the Mosque.

and if so, so is the argument that the terrorists did their terrorism in the name of religion. they did it in the name of terrorism, nothing more. and that is the real point.

Ok, martin, you can make this argument if you wish. But what you're claiming simply isn't true. They did not perform their actions saying that, "we're doing it to be terrorists". They proclaimed a holy war and did it in the name of Allah. This is factual information. Are they extremists? Yes. But they did it for a proclaimed holy war. They are certainly not indicative of the majority of muslims, but let's not lose sight of the facts.

misterearl wrote:"I have friends who are bothered by it, and I think they are justified in feeling that way."

Solace - you have any friends who are not bothered by it?

Yes, of course. I think they have valid points, as well. Like I said, my response was only due to your argument which I just did not feel was an accurate representation of the reasoning.

But to get away from all of that, this is America. We are supposed to be better than other countries. Better than Iran, Saudia Arabia,and Nazi Germany. You know what makes the First Amendment great? When you HATE what it protects. It's not supposed to protect the ideas that you like, it's supposed to protect the ideas that you hate. That is freedom, and separates us from third world dictatorships.

This Mosque will fail. They've attacked the funding, the concept, the religious leader. There is no way this could go forward now. But the black eye this gives America will never go away. You know who does win from all of this? Al Queda. I can see them now, in caves, "Look at the Americans, they hate Islam, they hate Allah." And their power and rank grows, and for what? So Gingrich can have something to run on in 2012? So Dick Armey can raise more money for his Tea Party Movement? So that someone here can talk about conquests and insults to those who died, when this guy who wanted to build it envisioned a community center to prove that Islam was not evil and that America accepted religious freedom? I also wonder if people don't see that they are crucifying this concept, and there is nothing that defeats faith and religious belief like a good crucification. Right?

nykshaknbake wrote:I don't get what foxnews, BUsh or even Karl Rove have to do with this. I think you gotta take deep breath and try to take people's views as they are and not attach them to those you hate.

misterearl wrote:"I have friends who are bothered by it, and I think they are justified in feeling that way."

Solace - you have any friends who are not bothered by it?

The imam of this mosque, as we have read this week and before, has done more to combat terrorists' perversion of Islam than Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Karen Hughes, W. Bush, Rudy Giuliani, Newt Gingrich and the others sucking every drop of demogogic blood they can out of this manufactured wedge issue.

The whole sorry Fox News/ Republican attack is so clearly Karl Rove-like. It comes up in my throat like recently swallowed, rotten fish.

I don't understand why people can't get over the right to build and whether you think its right. This is america and you can have an opinion that its not right. You can have an opinion if its right. That makes us better than IRan, Saudi Arabia and the others. get it? I protect the right for them to build it but I don't agree it shold be built. If they really want to build it nothing will stop them. But why does everyone have to like it? I agree you should protect the ideas you hate, but I don't see you doing that at all in your post. Quite the opposite.

Your last paragrapgh is not at all pertinent to the discussion. Over 60% of the country doesn't like the mosque and it has nothing to with the Tea Party, Dick Armey, crucifications or whatever other names you read about today. Your bost reminds me of that Bing commercial.

toodarkmark wrote:Because Fox News and the Republican Party are using it to drum up hate and fear in this election season. Just part of the illegal immigrants, black people, muslim smearing that goes on all day on Fox News. Hate mongering at it's best and finest. If all I watched was Fox and listen to leaders like Gingrich and Palin, I would believe Democrats hate white christian Americans and are doing everything they can to offend and hurt them. Even though the majority of Democrats are white christian Americans, but hey, what's reality got to do with good ol' GOP hate politics.

But to get away from all of that, this is America. We are supposed to be better than other countries. Better than Iran, Saudia Arabia,and Nazi Germany. You know what makes the First Amendment great? When you HATE what it protects. It's not supposed to protect the ideas that you like, it's supposed to protect the ideas that you hate. That is freedom, and separates us from third world dictatorships.

This Mosque will fail. They've attacked the funding, the concept, the religious leader. There is no way this could go forward now. But the black eye this gives America will never go away. You know who does win from all of this? Al Queda. I can see them now, in caves, "Look at the Americans, they hate Islam, they hate Allah." And their power and rank grows, and for what? So Gingrich can have something to run on in 2012? So Dick Armey can raise more money for his Tea Party Movement? So that someone here can talk about conquests and insults to those who died, when this guy who wanted to build it envisioned a community center to prove that Islam was not evil and that America accepted religious freedom? I also wonder if people don't see that they are crucifying this concept, and there is nothing that defeats faith and religious belief like a good crucification. Right?

nykshaknbake wrote:I don't get what foxnews, BUsh or even Karl Rove have to do with this. I think you gotta take deep breath and try to take people's views as they are and not attach them to those you hate.

misterearl wrote:"I have friends who are bothered by it, and I think they are justified in feeling that way."

Solace - you have any friends who are not bothered by it?

The imam of this mosque, as we have read this week and before, has done more to combat terrorists' perversion of Islam than Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Karen Hughes, W. Bush, Rudy Giuliani, Newt Gingrich and the others sucking every drop of demogogic blood they can out of this manufactured wedge issue.

The whole sorry Fox News/ Republican attack is so clearly Karl Rove-like. It comes up in my throat like recently swallowed, rotten fish.

martin wrote:

Solace wrote:

martin wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:If a significant number of the residents near the OKC bombing got together and complained how hurtful a church there was, then the church should not be built there. Has this happened? Was the OKC bombing done in the name of Jesus? No and no. your argument is just irrelevant.

misterearl wrote:Burlington Coat Factory

What about the existing strip club in the same block of "hallowed ground" as Park51?

Tim McVeigh was a Christian as evidenced by the fact that he asked for and received Catholic last rights prior to his execution.

Given this, I think all Christian Churches and right wing organizations, e.g., the local Republican Party Headquarters, should be kept a respectful distance from the Oklahoma City bombing. Our second worst terrorist attack.

Once this is done, we can talk about moving the Mosque.

and if so, so is the argument that the terrorists did their terrorism in the name of religion. they did it in the name of terrorism, nothing more. and that is the real point.

Ok, martin, you can make this argument if you wish. But what you're claiming simply isn't true. They did not perform their actions saying that, "we're doing it to be terrorists". They proclaimed a holy war and did it in the name of Allah. This is factual information. Are they extremists? Yes. But they did it for a proclaimed holy war. They are certainly not indicative of the majority of muslims, but let's not lose sight of the facts.

great. it's a fact. a pointless one that adds nothing.

Well, I could not disagree more. You may find the point irrelevant, but I think you are being entirely unrealistic.