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New Hornets brass already facing crisis with Paul [article]
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smackeddog
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7/22/2010  11:37 AM
iSergio wrote:I guess we differ on the potential of Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph. I see Detlef Shrempf and Lamar Odom at best. And if you wouldn't trade Shrempf and Odom for John Stockton/Isiah Thomas/Steve Nash level PG, I think you're nuts.

Out of curiosity iSergio- if we did the CP trade, do you think:
PG- CP
SG- Azubuike/Walker
SF- ?,
PF- Amar'e
C- ? Maybe OK4 if we had to take him back
Bench- Fields, Rautins, JJ?

is a championshionship team, and if not how would you propose improving that team with no draft picks, no cap space or assets for trading? Remember the MLE might go or be reduced under the new CBA

AUTOADVERT
Bonn1997
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7/22/2010  11:41 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/22/2010  11:42 AM
iSergio wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:If Ray Felton is avg 16-10-3.5 why do we need Chris Paul--I dont get it? And then we give away monumental building blocks standing 7 feet tall. Insane and I doubt D Walsh is anywhere near that stupid.

Raymond Felton is not on the same planet as Chris Paul. It's like saying why we do need Carmelo Anthony when we have Wilson Chandler. CP3 is a SUPERSTAR

I think you mean that he WAS a superstar. It remains to be seen if he still is. He didn't play like one post-injury last year but maybe the summer helped him. You seem unjustifiably certain that he still is a superstar though.

Nalod
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7/22/2010  11:51 AM
iSergio wrote:I guess we differ on the potential of Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph. I see Detlef Shrempf and Lamar Odom at best. And if you wouldn't trade Shrempf and Odom for John Stockton/Isiah Thomas/Steve Nash level PG, I think you're nuts.

Camby/Nene for Dice?

If thats your ceiling on those two then you do it.

You think AR is Shrempf?

tj23
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7/22/2010  12:07 PM
I think he meant AR=Odom lol
Nalod
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7/22/2010  12:08 PM
tj23 wrote:I think he meant AR=Odom lol


Really?

Panos
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7/22/2010  12:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/22/2010  12:10 PM
tj23 wrote:I think he meant AR=Odom lol

Why do you assume that?
Why does Gallo have to be Shrempf? Why not Rasheed Wallace?

Ira
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7/22/2010  12:13 PM
My big problem with trading for Paul is the injury. As with a lot of those things, it's hard for a fan to evaluate. But I do remember how the Knicks got shafted when they traded Camby and a lottery pick for MacDyess, who wasn't the same player that he'd been.

The pre-injury Chris Paul was one of the best players in the NBA. He was runner up in MVP voting a few years ago. If the teams doctors feels that he's fixed and there's no danger of re-injury, I'd be willing to give up a lot. But from the article that was posted earlier in this thread, it looks like his best years are behind him.

jazz74
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7/22/2010  12:14 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
iSergio wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:If Ray Felton is avg 16-10-3.5 why do we need Chris Paul--I dont get it? And then we give away monumental building blocks standing 7 feet tall. Insane and I doubt D Walsh is anywhere near that stupid.

Raymond Felton is not on the same planet as Chris Paul. It's like saying why we do need Carmelo Anthony when we have Wilson Chandler. CP3 is a SUPERSTAR

I think you mean that he WAS a superstar. It remains to be seen if he still is. He didn't play like one post-injury last year but maybe the summer helped him. You seem unjustifiably certain that he still is a superstar though.

that is why you have to have a rigorous physical to see. i think he is still at superstar level if not all star. someone mentioned that stars that win championships make everyone around them better. look at every team that won and that is the case. we have a lot of good players but do we have an all star that can make everyone better? no. can paul do that? you damn skippy.

jazz74
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7/22/2010  12:16 PM
smackeddog wrote:
iSergio wrote:I guess we differ on the potential of Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph. I see Detlef Shrempf and Lamar Odom at best. And if you wouldn't trade Shrempf and Odom for John Stockton/Isiah Thomas/Steve Nash level PG, I think you're nuts.

Out of curiosity iSergio- if we did the CP trade, do you think:
PG- CP
SG- Azubuike/Walker
SF- ?,
PF- Amar'e
C- ? Maybe OK4 if we had to take him back
Bench- Fields, Rautins, JJ?

is a championshionship team, and if not how would you propose improving that team with no draft picks, no cap space or assets for trading? Remember the MLE might go or be reduced under the new CBA

first, i think we are trading either ar OR gallo, not both. walsh wouldnt do that and its too much because it would gut our team.

Bonn1997
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7/22/2010  12:21 PM
jazz74 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
iSergio wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:If Ray Felton is avg 16-10-3.5 why do we need Chris Paul--I dont get it? And then we give away monumental building blocks standing 7 feet tall. Insane and I doubt D Walsh is anywhere near that stupid.

Raymond Felton is not on the same planet as Chris Paul. It's like saying why we do need Carmelo Anthony when we have Wilson Chandler. CP3 is a SUPERSTAR

I think you mean that he WAS a superstar. It remains to be seen if he still is. He didn't play like one post-injury last year but maybe the summer helped him. You seem unjustifiably certain that he still is a superstar though.

that is why you have to have a rigorous physical to see. i think he is still at superstar level if not all star. someone mentioned that stars that win championships make everyone around them better. look at every team that won and that is the case. we have a lot of good players but do we have an all star that can make everyone better? no. can paul do that? you damn skippy.


I don't think that's the answer. All an MRI is going to show is that, like the article said, his meniscus was removed and he now has bone rubbing on bone, which is the leading reason players need microfracture surgery. I don't think any physical or MRI can indicate what the long-term effects of lots of NBA minutes in his circumstance will be. He might even test fine now. He has only played about 10 NBA games with bone rubbing on bone post-surgery, which likely isn't enough for a negative impact. Bone rubbing on bone is a recipe for the gradual buildup of problems though.
nyk4ever
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7/22/2010  12:25 PM
AnubisADL wrote:If we get Paul we will have officially come full circle. Capped out with players with bad knees with no future picks.

and your the guy who wants arenas. yeah he doesn't have a huge contract and horrible knee.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
eViL
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7/22/2010  12:25 PM
only thing i'd give to NO for paul is cap relief. it's time to start dealing from a position of strength. they are the team that have a player who wants to go. they are the ones on the hook to pay him for two more seasons. he's not gonna be much help if we have to gut the roster to get him.
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TMS
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7/22/2010  12:25 PM
BRIGGS wrote:If Ray Felton is avg 16-10-3.5 why do we need Chris Paul--I dont get it? And then we give away monumental building blocks standing 7 feet tall. Insane and I doubt D Walsh is anywhere near that stupid.

Ray Felton hasn't sniffed those kinds of numbers in his entire career... stop over exaggerating to make a point... CP3 could easily attain those numbers w/or w/o MDA's system.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Uptown
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7/22/2010  12:26 PM
Starphuckin? What does that mean, exactly? If you define starphucking by what the Celts did to win a "Ship" then we need to proceed with no vaseline.
Uptown
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7/22/2010  12:27 PM
CrushAlot wrote:There are some cliches in sports that generally hold true, defense wins championships, don't trade big for small. I hope the logic of the latter is applied in this situation. Randolph has too much upside to trade for Paul in my opinion. I also want to see what the coach can do with this roster.

What if the upside never materializes, then what?

AnubisADL
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7/22/2010  12:30 PM
nyk4ever wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:If we get Paul we will have officially come full circle. Capped out with players with bad knees with no future picks.

and your the guy who wants arenas. yeah he doesn't have a huge contract and horrible knee.

Fall back man.

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nyk4ever
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7/22/2010  12:39 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:If we get Paul we will have officially come full circle. Capped out with players with bad knees with no future picks.

and your the guy who wants arenas. yeah he doesn't have a huge contract and horrible knee.

Fall back man.

fall back for what? you have been very outspoken about wanting arenas on this team since the offseason started and now you're going to say all the knicks need is more guys with bad knees and huge contracts? show some consistency.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TMS
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7/22/2010  12:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/22/2010  12:44 PM
i'll tell you guys what's stupid... that's trading away young assets for a player you don't even know if you'll be able to sign in a year's time... giving up young assets to attain a superstar in a trade is not stupid... that's what teams like the Celtics did to get KG & the Heat did to get Shaq, both on their way to winning a championship because of it... i love how the notion of giving up young assets for a player like CP3 now is so out of the question for the same people that were so adamant in their defense of the all-in for Lebron plan over the past 2 years.

not wanting to give up the entire farm for CP3 is understandable, i don't think anyone advocates giving up AR, Gallo & Chandler all in the same deal for a player who had a major surgery... you can draw to flashbacks of the ill-fated McDyess deal in some respects... but in other respects CP3 is a much more valuable player, especially when you already have a player like Amare in the fold who would be at the receiving end of his 10 assists a night over Ray Felton's 5... & you would also likely be adding a player like OK4 to the fold as well which shores up your frontcourt even more... but no, people would rather wait out another season & get strung along once again by Melo hoping he'll decide to sign here next summer... the time for waiting is over... if a superstar player is available in a trade, you go for it... that's what amassing young assets is supposed to net us afterall... giving up AR is not going to make or break this franchise... attaining a player like CP3 very well could... of course there's a risk, just like there was a risk giving away assets before we even knew what Lebron was going to do this summer... i'd rather give up assets knowing who you're getting personally... this is CP3 we're talking about... you won't find a better PG in the NBA anywhere & people are hedging on giving up AR... wow.

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Bonn1997
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7/22/2010  12:46 PM
Uptown wrote:Starphuckin? What does that mean, exactly? If you define starphucking by what the Celts did to win a "Ship" then we need to proceed with no vaseline.

I'd consider it to be going after high-paid big name players with huge concerns (be it personality baggage or physical health issues). Marbury, McDyess, and Paul meet that description. The Celtics' acquisitions (KG & Ray Allen) did not.
BigSm00th
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7/22/2010  12:51 PM
TMS wrote:i'll tell you guys what's stupid... that's trading away young assets for a player you don't even know if you'll be able to sign in a year's time... giving up young assets to attain a superstar in a trade is not stupid... that's what teams like the Celtics did to get KG & the Heat did to get Shaq, both on their way to winning a championship because of it... i love how the notion of giving up young assets for a player like CP3 now is so out of the question for the same people that were so adamant in their defense of the all-in for Lebron plan over the past 2 years.

not wanting to give up the entire farm for CP3 is understandable, i don't think anyone advocates giving up AR, Gallo & Chandler all in the same deal for a player who had a major surgery... you can draw to flashbacks of the ill-fated McDyess deal in some respects... but in other respects CP3 is a much more valuable player, especially when you already have a player like Amare in the fold who would be at the receiving end of his 10 assists a night over Ray Felton's 5... & you would also likely be adding a player like OK4 to the fold as well which shores up your frontcourt even more... but no, people would rather wait out another season & get strung along once again by Melo hoping he'll decide to sign here next summer... the time for waiting is over... if a superstar player is available in a trade, you go for it... that's what amassing young assets is supposed to net us afterall... giving up AR is not going to make or break this franchise... attaining a player like CP3 very well could... of course there's a risk, just like there was a risk giving away assets before we even knew what Lebron was going to do this summer... i'd rather give up assets knowing who you're getting personally... this is CP3 we're talking about... you won't find a better PG in the NBA anywhere & people are hedging on giving up AR... wow.

agreed. i think there is a fine line b/w what constitutes a "good deal" in trading for CP3. That being said, Briggs, ray felton for his career is a 14 pt 6 assist guy. i agree his #'s will get inflated, but saying he'll lead the league in assists is a bit much.

chris paul is a year younger than felton is. for his career he's legit put up 19/10/5reb!/2.5 stl. those are superstar #'s. look at isiah thomas' career #'s, very very similar. this guy, in d'antoni's offense, could legitimately put up 20 points/15 assists/6 rebounds/2.5 steals. just eye popping stuff. if nash won 2 back to back MVPs i can't imagine what CP3 would do in the prime of his career playing with a big like amare. (CP3's best year in 08-09 he put up 23/11/6/3 those are real numbers not inflated briggs #s thats what this guy did with byron scott as a head coach)

felton was signed to a very very realistic contract. if the knicks made this move i don't see why they couldn't turn around and get some assets for felton.

obviously the knicks have the leverage here. they have had a succesful offseason so far, have accumulated a few nice picks, and CP3 is the one that demanded a trade. the hornets are the one with the disgruntled superstar, not the knicks.

walsh has made his name as a GM pulling off good trades. his pacer teams post reggie were forged with a few wily trades (getting JO for dale davis, getting artest and brad miller for jalen rose), i think everyone agrees lee was gonna go for nothing and he managed to get AR, turaif, and azabuike out of it --- a great deal when the flip side of the coin is nothing.

we'll see what happens, but how can you NOT want a guy like CP3? i know he has an injury issue -- guess what, so does amare. you can be in the conversation as a championship contender with a duo of CP3 and amare.

#Knickstaps
New Hornets brass already facing crisis with Paul [article]

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