oohah wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I don't see Amare as a huge upgrade over Lee. Lee gets 3 more assists and 3 more rebounds than Amare. That's a lot of ground Amare has to cover up for elsewhere (tell me where) just to break even with Lee. You can also look at the Hollinger stats that were posted in separate thread comparing the two.

It really isn't so much about numbers. Stoudemire should put up big numbers in this system assuming he isn't injured. I think Stoudemire is a pretty big upgrade over Lee, but he won't make the team "good". So in that respect, the Knicks might as well have kept Lee. But at the same time 80 million for Lee is way too much. Because Lee can't make your team "good".

oohah

Bigger #s in this system than Phoenix's offense run by Steve Nash?

oohah wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:Please- tell me in some detail what the Heat did to get the Prince to play with them. What did that franchise do to put themselves in a situation to get him?

When you figure out the answer you will know why there was simply no way for the Knicks to compete with them.

Better yet, why don't you put down what you would have done so we could have really competed with Miami in this competition. And having Walsh morph into Isiah is not an answer.

A) I don't know what deal they offered LeBron as compared to what the Knicks offered except the chance to have much better players next to him.

B) If there was (Quoting your words) "simply no way for the Knicks to compete with them" then I guess the plan was destined to be a failure from the beginning, huh Paladin55? Thanks for pointing that out! I guess the Knicks should have tried to build a good team instead of trying to get better with one karate chop!

C)What the hell are you talking about? See answer B immediately above.

oohah

The plan was a good one- we had space for two max contracts, and aggressively signed Amare in order for him to be a lure for James. Once Wade did his magic with Bosh, and the Heat stripped their roster, what could we do? Would James have gone there without Bosh and Wade waiting for him. Nothing you can do when players are making agreements with each other. If James feels that he had to be playing with two other FA stars there was nothing else we could have done come crunch time.

As someone also pointed out, we still have options this year and next, and are in a better position cap-wise and player-wise to maneuver. The cap space allowed us to make the trade with GS and get a negotiate a sweetened deal with the Suns for Amare, and who knows what we can pick up from Orlando if we do the S&T with Harrington.

I am as pissed off as anyone that we did not get James, but we took the hit and landed right back on our feet with the GS trade, and our cap space gives us the ability to acquire more assests, and even be in position to compete for Anthony next year if he is available.

I do think that Walsh would be wise to look for a successor during the year- preferably before or during the season so the guy has a chance to evaluate what we have and what we need, but even if Walsh does bow out, I think he has done a decent job given the resources he was left with.

Bonn1997 wrote:

oohah wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I don't see Amare as a huge upgrade over Lee. Lee gets 3 more assists and 3 more rebounds than Amare. That's a lot of ground Amare has to cover up for elsewhere (tell me where) just to break even with Lee. You can also look at the Hollinger stats that were posted in separate thread comparing the two.

It really isn't so much about numbers. Stoudemire should put up big numbers in this system assuming he isn't injured. I think Stoudemire is a pretty big upgrade over Lee, but he won't make the team "good". So in that respect, the Knicks might as well have kept Lee. But at the same time 80 million for Lee is way too much. Because Lee can't make your team "good".

oohah

uh, didnt stoudemire do well before nash came when he was rookie of the year?

Bigger #s in this system than Phoenix's offense run by Steve Nash?

BasketballJones wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:With the acquisition of Randolph we are now in position to trade Randolph/Gallinari and or Chandler in a trade that nets us a Carmelo Anthony or a Chris Paul should they come available. The reason for getting under the cap was clearly to get Lebron. That was an utter failure. But the reason that Walsh's plan is better then Layden's or Isiah's is that we aren't painted into a corner. We still have flexibility.

The benefits of getting under the cap are that now you have the flexibility to acquire players that can help and that can be used in trade. Instead of having overpaid bumbs you now have young guys with potential and expiring contracts. These items are valuable. Should an Anthony/Paul come available at least you are in the game(that's the only way to get them of course) instead of watching other teams acquire them and have your team try to convince themselves they can win by signing Clarence Weatherspoon or Ramon Sessions to MLE's.

I'm as bumbed as anyone that we did not get Lebron. I think this was a failure on Walsh's part. I would not be saddened if Walsh left or was replaced for not completing his Plan A. That being said, we are clearly better off then we were 2 years ago. We just aren't the clear cut winner we hoped.

That's just too reasonable a position.

And for that I apologize

CrushAlot wrote:The plan failed. In trying to execute the plan Walsh was taken advantage of and gave up way too many assets. However, I do think he has bounced back nicely. Getting Randolph in a sign and trade for Lee was a great move in my opinion. He also got extra cap space and a second round pick by doing a sign and trade for Amare. I think he is going to get something for Harrington. He has acquired his type of guys and not just guys that fit with his coach.

i agree with you 100% on the first two points, & i am happy we got something back for Lee rather than just letting him walk for nothing as i feared might happen after we failed to trade him last year... but it is my understanding we are the ones giving up the 2nd round pick in this deal, & the Suns are getting the trade exception... where have you read we are getting extra cap space & a 2nd round pick in the Amare deal?