loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

oohah wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Dude, there is nothing incoherent about my thought. You guys keep harping on this trade like it really set our downfall in motion. And based on your own comment here if we HADN"T made this trade we would have this same exact roster Plus Jordan Hill and a worthless lottery pick and minus any cap room. So YEA I am glad we made the trade.

Perhaps you don't understand. The Knicks traded Hill, who is not worth much, swapped a first round pick that has very little protection and traded an additional first round pick to boot. Jefrries contract is also expiring next year if I am not incorrect.

And what is the return. I believe the Knicks would have had the money to sign Stoudemire anyway. And they did not achieve their goal of signing James in addition to a max-contract player. So no I am not happy that the Knicks traded assets for a plan that did not work out. It did not work out. I hope you see that now.

oohah

I think you are the one who doesn't understand. What you are saying is the trade is bad trade because we didn't get Lebron and because we already had the money to sign Amare, right? So then if we didnt make the bad trade we would have ended up with Amare and Jordan Hill on our roster assuming we let Jeffries expire. I am not even saying Amare would sign here if we never had a shot at another max FA, but to say the trade is bad and we could sign Amare anyway means you would be OK with our roster with Amare and J HIll instead of Amare and Cap Space. And that's fine if that's how you feel about it, I personally think that's utterly ridiculous.

the draft picks are meaningless?

Did I say that? Draft picks are lottery tickets, that's all they are and that's all they'll ever be. TOO MUCH value is associated with them.

and the tmac trade was done trading future lottery (draft picks) for a chance at lebron..thats a bigger risk than loterry picks..that was high stakes poker and we lost

EwingsGlass wrote:

alau53 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

alau53 wrote:

martin wrote:

alau53 wrote:if knicks didnt make the tmac trade theyd have everything they have today plus assets like high potential draft picks in '11 and '12 and jordan hill..yes they'd have a little less in salary cap however they could always trade hill for salary cap relief if a deal to their liking comes up..just like reily did when he traded beasley..now thats flexibility baby

This is absolutely 100% false. Before you make your wrong assumptions, show the salary cap and all of the salaries and their implications.

sorry martin i dont have chris broussard on speed dial..why wouldnt they be able to do what reily did by clearing up cap space when a good deal is on the table instead of trading valuable assets for a dollar and a dream

you don't need broussard on speed-dial, he doesn't know anythign anyway. there are plenty of websites, that show each teams salary cap. why don't you back up your statements by proving the facts?

i dont see you or pro walsh guys showing boring salary cap figures when you make statements...show me how the knicks would not be in the same position they are today if they didnt make the briliant tmac trade..me, tms, oohah, and even wfan's evan roberts feel we would have the same team we have right now plus our draft picks the next 2 years and j hill..these additional assets would've given us more flexibility baby..please explain with salary cap figures otherwise

Challenge accepted.

David Lee's Salary for the next 5 years:

13,000,000.00 (First Year)
14,365,000.00
15,873,325.00
17,540,024.13
19,381,726.66

TOTAL
80,160,075.78

Value of Players Knicks Received in trade:

Kelenna Azubuike	 3,364,000.00
Ronny Turiaf	         4,000,000.00
Anthony Randolph	 1,965,720.00
	
Total	                 9,329,720.00

Since in your example, NY and GS would both be over the cap, the trade would have had to comply with trade exception rules, i.e. GS cannot take back more than 125% + $100k of salary of players they send out.

9,329,720.00 * 125% + $100,000 = 11,762,150.00

Since $13,000,000 is greater than $11,762,150.00, it would not have worked unless NY had cap space.

ewing..i dont think the knicks would've been over the cap if we didnt make the tmac trade..and even if they were they could have cleared up space by trading hill and or expiring jeffries contract for draft picks similar to what riley did with beasley..trade hill for draft pick instead of trading hill with a draft pick makes alot more sense

alau53 wrote:the tmac trade only cleared $7m in cap relief space add the $7m to $44,603,014 thats $51,603,014 which is below the salary cap of $56m..thus the knicks could have done the S&T with GS without doing the tmac trade..that trade only cleared enough space for 2 max f/a's

Player             2010-11      2011-12    2012-13     2013-14     2014-15 2015-16 
Amar'e Stoudemire $16,500,000 $18,232,500 $19,965,000 $21,697,500 $23,430,000   
Eddy Curry        $11,276,863           
Ronny Turiaf       $4,200,000 $4,100,000         
Danilo Gallinari   $3,304,560 $4,190,182 Q-$5,589,703       
Kelenna Azubuike   $3,300,000           
Wilson Chandler    $2,130,482 Q-$3,099,851         
Anthony Randolph   $1,965,720 $2,911,231 Q-$4,049,523       
Toney Douglas      $1,071,000 $1,145,640 $2,067,880 Q-$3,101,820     
Bill Walker          $854,389 $916,100         
TOTAL             $44,603,014 $31,495,653 $22,032,880 $21,697,500 $23,430,000 $0

* No Longer With Team

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9155#ixzz0tFFR2tZK

It cleared both Jeffries and Hill's contracts. $6.88M + $2.66M = $9.54M differential. The Sergio dollars are a wash since he has agreed to play over seas. Regardless, I misread the prior posts to beleive we were including some of the prior transactions where we gave up draft picks. So, my assumption of being over the cap was based upon that. Moving past that, even if it scrapes under the cap to make the trade happen, you then have 14 players under contract and no money and TD as your only point guard. I supported clearing cap then. I thouhght giving up Hill was a high cost, but I don't think it was the wrong decision then because it didn't work out as planned now. Now that we are under the cap, I am skeptical and annoyed at how quickly they are spending the cap space.

umynot wrote:

Mray20 wrote:We should have never given up Jared Jeffries I had a feeling he was just about to turn the corner

Yeah and Jordan Hill was just busting out into a Superstar!!

LOL i'm joking man I wanted Jeffries out of here more than anyone he disgraced the number 20

skeng wrote:

Mray20 wrote:

umynot wrote:

Mray20 wrote:We should have never given up Jared Jeffries I had a feeling he was just about to turn the corner

Yeah and Jordan Hill was just busting out into a Superstar!!

LOL i'm joking man I wanted Jeffries out of here more than anyone he disgraced the number 20

Sir, I think umy is just playing along

alau53 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

oohah wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Dude, there is nothing incoherent about my thought. You guys keep harping on this trade like it really set our downfall in motion. And based on your own comment here if we HADN"T made this trade we would have this same exact roster Plus Jordan Hill and a worthless lottery pick and minus any cap room. So YEA I am glad we made the trade.

Perhaps you don't understand. The Knicks traded Hill, who is not worth much, swapped a first round pick that has very little protection and traded an additional first round pick to boot. Jefrries contract is also expiring next year if I am not incorrect.

And what is the return. I believe the Knicks would have had the money to sign Stoudemire anyway. And they did not achieve their goal of signing James in addition to a max-contract player. So no I am not happy that the Knicks traded assets for a plan that did not work out. It did not work out. I hope you see that now.

oohah

I think you are the one who doesn't understand. What you are saying is the trade is bad trade because we didn't get Lebron and because we already had the money to sign Amare, right? So then if we didnt make the bad trade we would have ended up with Amare and Jordan Hill on our roster assuming we let Jeffries expire. I am not even saying Amare would sign here if we never had a shot at another max FA, but to say the trade is bad and we could sign Amare anyway means you would be OK with our roster with Amare and J HIll instead of Amare and Cap Space. And that's fine if that's how you feel about it, I personally think that's utterly ridiculous.

the draft picks are meaningless?

Did I say that? Draft picks are lottery tickets, that's all they are and that's all they'll ever be. TOO MUCH value is associated with them.

and the tmac trade was done trading future lottery (draft picks) for a chance at lebron..thats a bigger risk than loterry picks..that was high stakes poker and we lost

Go ahead and explain how this was a "bigger" risk please.

CrushAlot wrote:Hill never was given a chance with D'Antoni so I don't think it is fair to judge him on his time in NY. When he got to Houston Shane Battier said it was like he had missed an entire year of development because of how he was handled in NY. He put up good numbers in Houston for the quarter of the season that he got playing time. Yesterday I heard an interview with Aaron Brooks where he called Hill a great player. I think judegement on Hill should be withheld until he has been given a legitimate chance to play and have a training camp where a coach is focused on his development. Coming into the draft last year Hill was considered the second best big man after Blair and was rated as high as a top 4 player. You can like or hate the T-Mac trade but I don't think it is fair to judge Hill at this point. He wasn't given a shot in NY and there is no excuse for that. His lack of value and lack of development is on the coach.

Hill was not stunted by MDA. I don't know how many times this has to be pointed out, but you don't learn more in games than you do in practice and in training over the summer. He may have felt a bit more comfortable, but his level of development stayed the same. You see more solid numbers only cuz he got more minutes. His skills don't get better just cuz he plays 15 mins a game over may 10. This is such a fallacy. Hill's major improvements were always going to come from HOURS of practice and reps on his footwork, learning positioning and finer points of the game etc.

The Knicks staff worked with him on the side the entire time, from SL thru the season. It's not like the kid didn't receive any attention. Trust me if he was ballin in practice he would've been put in games more often. I'm done talking about this kid. Wish him well, but we have replaced him with better talent and that's the entire point of moving him. It allowed us to go for players we feel have better skills now and/or more upside.

loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

oohah wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Dude, there is nothing incoherent about my thought. You guys keep harping on this trade like it really set our downfall in motion. And based on your own comment here if we HADN"T made this trade we would have this same exact roster Plus Jordan Hill and a worthless lottery pick and minus any cap room. So YEA I am glad we made the trade.

Perhaps you don't understand. The Knicks traded Hill, who is not worth much, swapped a first round pick that has very little protection and traded an additional first round pick to boot. Jefrries contract is also expiring next year if I am not incorrect.

And what is the return. I believe the Knicks would have had the money to sign Stoudemire anyway. And they did not achieve their goal of signing James in addition to a max-contract player. So no I am not happy that the Knicks traded assets for a plan that did not work out. It did not work out. I hope you see that now.

oohah

I think you are the one who doesn't understand. What you are saying is the trade is bad trade because we didn't get Lebron and because we already had the money to sign Amare, right? So then if we didnt make the bad trade we would have ended up with Amare and Jordan Hill on our roster assuming we let Jeffries expire. I am not even saying Amare would sign here if we never had a shot at another max FA, but to say the trade is bad and we could sign Amare anyway means you would be OK with our roster with Amare and J HIll instead of Amare and Cap Space. And that's fine if that's how you feel about it, I personally think that's utterly ridiculous.

the draft picks are meaningless?

Did I say that? Draft picks are lottery tickets, that's all they are and that's all they'll ever be. TOO MUCH value is associated with them.

you called the pick worthless & you failed to even mention the swap rights to next year's pick, so seems to me you don't equate much value to them... in my view those are probably the biggest reasons why most people hated to make the trade to begin with.