CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Cosmic wrote:It's pathetic the hate Walsh has gotten. Completely unfair.

Rather than repeat myself just look to my post on it back in this thread somewhere.

Yet don't lock this up. I like watching the Zach Randolph, Jamawful Crawful, and Jordan Hill fanboys still cry over their departure as we build a new winning team....that will actually, get this, WIN GAMES and not suck their way to 30 wins and "it's the coaches' fault" type failures.

I don't hate Walsh but I think he has made a lot of obvious mistakes that in my opinion are inexcusable. I think the most obvious is that he always lets everyone know what his goal is. Everyone knew who the Knicks were going to pick in 08 and 09 if he was available. In 08 other teams planned their draft strategy around the Knicks picking Gallo.

generally speaking, the top 10 picks are figured out by EVERYONE. Check out DraftExpress, Chad Ford.. these guys have it nailed down.

The Knicks were really locked in on Gallo in a very talented draft. Teams knew that might not need to trade up to get to guys that might fall to 6. It devalued their position. Speculation is different from other teams GMs saying they knew the Knicks were taking Gallo. I do follow draftexpress, draftnet and Chad and I agree that they pretty close most years. However, letting everyone know who you are picking if you aren't picking first is a poor strategy in my opinion.

I think people also knew that the Knicks really wanted a PG, since it was obvious that Marbury was not acceptable as a PG to MDA.

I just don't think the situation was as simple as what you are putting forth.

TMS wrote:
so let me get this straight... if u lay out a plan to go after a chick you think is hot, & you sell some valuable possessions of yours to raise money to buy this chick a gift, & she still turns you down, you're gonna tell me it was all worth it just to try? sorry, but "try" is not good enough when you're gambling with the future of your franchise... "do or do not, there is no try" as a wise, short little green guy once said.

You are not dealing with a situation that you have complete control over. If you don't do the things above, never even have the chance to ask the woman out, and then years later find out that she was disappointed that you did not do what you had to do to get her, how do you feel then?

Too many dynamics and too much chance involved to lay out some linear plan of action that proceeds exactly as planned.

If Evan Turner does not take himself out of last year's draft we probably could have ended up with him, Curry, or even Flynn, but he drops out, we are unable to move up, teams pick who they pick, and we don't get the guys we really wanted- Evans, Rubio, or Curry.

Walsh believed that the only way to get us in position for one of the top FAs was to have two max slots open. He knew that we were not going to have the kind of roster that would draw James, or Wade, or Bosh, so he put us in a position where we could sign two of them, and dramatically increase our chances of winning next year. Who know, if Hill had averaged 18/10 last year, we might have just kept him and used our possession of a dynamic young center as a chip for attracting one of the FAs we really wanted- Lebron, Wade, or Bosh, but everyone know that the draft is a crapshoot, and you just don't know how your drafted players will turn out, even though some around here believe they are 100% sure about how certain picks will turn out.

You have to be flexible, and Walsh seems to have done the best he could do with the resources he was given when he came on. Not perfect, but still a good job on his part.

If LBJ does not come, ask Wade. If Wade does not come. DW will be smart and make some moves that improve the team and preserve the future. He has built teams before. I trust he can do it again.

Douglas G
Chandler G-F
Gallinari F
Rautins G
Fields F
Curry C
Walker G
Stoudemire F
Jerome Jordan C

MS wrote:We just didn't need guys like Larry Hughes on the team in the first place.

Chandler and Gallo were given rotation spots regardless of how guys were playing or was making what. I have no doubt there was a hope that if we could get some of these guys playing well and winning some games there would be some interest at the trade deadline. They didnt play well and there was no interest. Life goes on. Douglas had a good rookie campain and by his own admission learned a ton. Heck.. we learned a ton about him.

Right now we know exactly what Douglas is. Great defender. Very good scorer, shooter and ball handler. He doesnt turn it over. Good passer, but limited court vision and doesnt do well starting the offense. He's got Billups like potential at PG with his offense and excellent ball handling. I dont know if he will ever be a great point man, but he can certainly be a bigtime player. You dont need to average 10 assists to be a bigtime player at the PG. Tony Parker, Billups and Sam Cassell all come to mind as excellent players who played PG without being your typical PG.

Regardless this thread was about Walsh and his plan looking bad. Looking better every day to me. Dude is so patient.

misterearl wrote:The Crush A Lot Chronicles

"
I think my biggest problem with Walsh is that he has never confronted D'Antoni and made him do what was right for the team."

Spoken like someone who has walked into the offices at 2 Penn Plaza or Greenburgh

"Marbury, Darko, Nate, Hill, Hughes, Douglas, all could have been assets for the team if D'Antoni had handled things differently."

Spoken like a true amateur GM with a baseball card collection, not an executive negotiating with his adversaries

Utter nonsense

Paladin55 wrote:

TMS wrote:
so let me get this straight... if u lay out a plan to go after a chick you think is hot, & you sell some valuable possessions of yours to raise money to buy this chick a gift, & she still turns you down, you're gonna tell me it was all worth it just to try? sorry, but "try" is not good enough when you're gambling with the future of your franchise... "do or do not, there is no try" as a wise, short little green guy once said.

You are not dealing with a situation that you have complete control over. If you don't do the things above, never even have the chance to ask the woman out, and then years later find out that she was disappointed that you did not do what you had to do to get her, how do you feel then?

Too many dynamics and too much chance involved to lay out some linear plan of action that proceeds exactly as planned.

If Evan Turner does not take himself out of last year's draft we probably could have ended up with him, Curry, or even Flynn, but he drops out, we are unable to move up, teams pick who they pick, and we don't get the guys we really wanted- Evans, Rubio, or Curry.

Walsh believed that the only way to get us in position for one of the top FAs was to have two max slots open. He knew that we were not going to have the kind of roster that would draw James, or Wade, or Bosh, so he put us in a position where we could sign two of them, and dramatically increase our chances of winning next year. Who know, if Hill had averaged 18/10 last year, we might have just kept him and used our possession of a dynamic young center as a chip for attracting one of the FAs we really wanted- Lebron, Wade, or Bosh, but everyone know that the draft is a crapshoot, and you just don't know how your drafted players will turn out, even though some around here believe they are 100% sure about how certain picks will turn out.

You have to be flexible, and Walsh seems to have done the best he could do with the resources he was given when he came on. Not perfect, but still a good job on his part.

i actually don't have a problem with the idea of having cap space to be able to sign 2 max FA's, but i feel we gave up an awful lot to get to that point & we could still have had other options for sign & trades this summer without having to panic a few months ago to dump Fishlips' contract... the Bulls & Heat showed you there were teams out there willing to take on salary for mid 1st round picks on Draft night... i think Donnie panicked bigtime & went all in on suited connectors before he even saw the flop.

Thursday, July 8, 2010
LeBron's decision disastrous for Knicks
By Chris Sheridan
ESPNNewYork.com

NEW YORK -- One word: Disaster.

Check that. Let's make it two words: Utter disaster.

LeBron James isn't coming. David Lee is gone. The best player on the team, for the long term, is Danilo Gallinari. And if Eddy Curry walks (waddles?) through that door, it ain't helping much.

The New York Knicks have now sewn up another half-decade of irrelevance, but there is a silver lining. Tourists will still be able to pick up a pair of ducats in the lower bowl for $20 a pop or less if they hold out long enough with the scalpers, or if they lowball sellers on Craigslist.

Knicks blog

Knicks Looking for more information on your Knicks? ESPNNewYork.com has you covered.

Did LeBron even mention the Knicks on that telecast? I don't recall him doing so. It was so bad, the Knicks got the Clippers treatment.

So here's what Knicks fans can look forward to in the next few years: regular updates on the amount of knee pain Amare Stoudemire is tolerating as he eats up their cap space for a longer period of time than Stephon Marbury did.

Andy Rautins as the new Greg Butler.

Nate Robinson's second homecoming game.

Public abuse and ridicule from Marbury.

Over/under wagers on which comes first: Mike D'Antoni's firing, or Donnie Walsh's retirement.

If you think LeBron looked shaken up when he watched that video of his jersey being burned in Cleveland, wait until you see Spike Lee around Thanksgiving.

This is going to be bad, Knicks fans. Worse than the Travis Knight era.

In case you missed it, while LeBron was making his announcement, ESPN.com's Chad Ford reported that New York has reached an agreement to trade Lee to the Golden State Warriors for a package of Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf and Kelenna Azubuike.

I don't know: Is that worse than Patrick Ewing for Glen Rice and Luc Longley?

It's right in that neighborhood.

Maybe Charles Barkley was right: The Knicks should be forever cursed for trading Ewing exactly one decade ago.

They certainly seem cursed now.

The Knicks can still get some new talent into the Garden through sign-and-trade deals involving Al Harrington, Eddie House and/or Tracy McGrady, but those players' values have diminished precipitously.

As things stand now, here is your 2010-11 opening night lineup, Knicks fans (get the tissues out):

PG: Toney Douglas, TBD.
SG: Wilson Chandler, Azubuike, Rautins.
SF: Gallinari, Bill Walker, Landry Fields.
PF: Stoudemire, Randolph.
C: Turiaf, Curry, Jerome Jordan.

Right now, they have a better chance of chasing the 2009-10 Nets than they do of becoming even the slightest bit relevant in this city. Oh, and let's not forget: They have no first-round draft pick in 2012, and the Rockets have the right to swap picks with them next year. So it doesn't look as though it's getting any better anytime soon.

The one saving grace: Knicks fans don't have it as bad as Cavs fans.

New Yorkers (older ones) will at least have the memories of Clyde, Willis, Dollar Bill. Cavs fans now have a signature memory all their own: the night LeBron abandoned them.

As I said, those folks in Cleveland have it worse.

But they also might have a team -- even without James -- that's better than the Knicks.

Another Knicks hater.

masterjedidarkcaster wrote:http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5365731

Thursday, July 8, 2010
LeBron's decision disastrous for Knicks
By Chris Sheridan
ESPNNewYork.com

NEW YORK -- One word: Disaster.

Check that. Let's make it two words: Utter disaster.

LeBron James isn't coming. David Lee is gone. The best player on the team, for the long term, is Danilo Gallinari. And if Eddy Curry walks (waddles?) through that door, it ain't helping much.

The New York Knicks have now sewn up another half-decade of irrelevance, but there is a silver lining. Tourists will still be able to pick up a pair of ducats in the lower bowl for $20 a pop or less if they hold out long enough with the scalpers, or if they lowball sellers on Craigslist.

Knicks blog

Knicks Looking for more information on your Knicks? ESPNNewYork.com has you covered.

Did LeBron even mention the Knicks on that telecast? I don't recall him doing so. It was so bad, the Knicks got the Clippers treatment.

So here's what Knicks fans can look forward to in the next few years: regular updates on the amount of knee pain Amare Stoudemire is tolerating as he eats up their cap space for a longer period of time than Stephon Marbury did.

Andy Rautins as the new Greg Butler.

Nate Robinson's second homecoming game.

Public abuse and ridicule from Marbury.

Over/under wagers on which comes first: Mike D'Antoni's firing, or Donnie Walsh's retirement.

If you think LeBron looked shaken up when he watched that video of his jersey being burned in Cleveland, wait until you see Spike Lee around Thanksgiving.

This is going to be bad, Knicks fans. Worse than the Travis Knight era.

In case you missed it, while LeBron was making his announcement, ESPN.com's Chad Ford reported that New York has reached an agreement to trade Lee to the Golden State Warriors for a package of Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf and Kelenna Azubuike.

I don't know: Is that worse than Patrick Ewing for Glen Rice and Luc Longley?

It's right in that neighborhood.

Maybe Charles Barkley was right: The Knicks should be forever cursed for trading Ewing exactly one decade ago.

They certainly seem cursed now.

The Knicks can still get some new talent into the Garden through sign-and-trade deals involving Al Harrington, Eddie House and/or Tracy McGrady, but those players' values have diminished precipitously.

As things stand now, here is your 2010-11 opening night lineup, Knicks fans (get the tissues out):

PG: Toney Douglas, TBD.
SG: Wilson Chandler, Azubuike, Rautins.
SF: Gallinari, Bill Walker, Landry Fields.
PF: Stoudemire, Randolph.
C: Turiaf, Curry, Jerome Jordan.

Right now, they have a better chance of chasing the 2009-10 Nets than they do of becoming even the slightest bit relevant in this city. Oh, and let's not forget: They have no first-round draft pick in 2012, and the Rockets have the right to swap picks with them next year. So it doesn't look as though it's getting any better anytime soon.

The one saving grace: Knicks fans don't have it as bad as Cavs fans.

New Yorkers (older ones) will at least have the memories of Clyde, Willis, Dollar Bill. Cavs fans now have a signature memory all their own: the night LeBron abandoned them.

As I said, those folks in Cleveland have it worse.

But they also might have a team -- even without James -- that's better than the Knicks.

Another Knicks hater.