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Kobe he is a great player but he is no M J
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Marv
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6/21/2010  1:26 PM
Panos wrote:
Marv wrote:
Panos wrote:
Marv wrote:
Panos wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:There will never be another MJ.

There will never be another Kobe.

period.

There will never be another Dido.

the blob made a pretty good run at it.


I can't believe you're making that comparison. Dido was the GOAT. He was the original. OBM was good, but he stole all his moves from Dido. Plus, look at the support OBM had: oohah, GKF, etc. And all Dido had was Bonnie. And Bonn faded into obscurity as soon as Dido retired.
The board was much tougher back then. If Dido was on the board today, he'd be killin'. You youngsters johnny-come-lately's don't know jack.

oh you're talking about the pre-MLB dido.

(MLB = Major Looney Bin)


No doubt. I tell you right now, if Dido had stayed focused, and didn't waste part of his prime over at RealGM, he'd have 2 more rings in his collection.

Plus Dido was a true leader. You never saw him getting banned at critical times when the thread was on the line.

good point. plus remember he played in the pre-embedded youtube era.
AUTOADVERT
fishmike
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6/21/2010  2:47 PM
Kobe shoots 33% for the finals and wins MVP? What a joke. Gasol was the MVP. Not even close.

I kill Phil Jackson as an overrated coach who has always had the best talent in the league to win with. I will say this though... 4th qtr of game 7 Lakers run the offense through Gasol because Kobe is having another 4-20 night.

I think Phil is the only coach in the NBA with a wanker bigger than Kobe's who could have done that. Every other coach in the NBA lives and dies w/ Kobe there. I thought that showed balls.

Kobe isnt close to MJ. Not a sniff, because there are a few guys who can do what Kobe does in the league. Wade, Lebron, Durant are all on a par. Kobe won because he had the best team, and once again had a role player to hit a big shot. If Fisher doesnt hit that 3 Celtics probably win that game.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nyk4ever
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6/21/2010  2:52 PM
fishmike wrote:Kobe shoots 33% for the finals and wins MVP? What a joke. Gasol was the MVP. Not even close.

I kill Phil Jackson as an overrated coach who has always had the best talent in the league to win with. I will say this though... 4th qtr of game 7 Lakers run the offense through Gasol because Kobe is having another 4-20 night.

I think Phil is the only coach in the NBA with a wanker bigger than Kobe's who could have done that. Every other coach in the NBA lives and dies w/ Kobe there. I thought that showed balls.

Kobe isnt close to MJ. Not a sniff, because there are a few guys who can do what Kobe does in the league. Wade, Lebron, Durant are all on a par. Kobe won because he had the best team, and once again had a role player to hit a big shot. If Fisher doesnt hit that 3 Celtics probably win that game.

awesome post fish.

phil does get ragged on alot but when he sat kobe down at the end of the 3rd and and beginning of the 4th to show him that the other lakers were capable of not only playing, but playing very good basketball, to me that's when he earned that 11th ring.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
KnicksSince88
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6/21/2010  2:58 PM
Phil didn't even go to the parade today. Whats another ring to him. He probably has a couple of them lying in his couch cushions that he doesn't even think about.
arkrud
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6/21/2010  3:26 PM
fishmike wrote:Kobe shoots 33% for the finals and wins MVP? What a joke. Gasol was the MVP. Not even close.

I kill Phil Jackson as an overrated coach who has always had the best talent in the league to win with. I will say this though... 4th qtr of game 7 Lakers run the offense through Gasol because Kobe is having another 4-20 night.

I think Phil is the only coach in the NBA with a wanker bigger than Kobe's who could have done that. Every other coach in the NBA lives and dies w/ Kobe there. I thought that showed balls.

Kobe isnt close to MJ. Not a sniff, because there are a few guys who can do what Kobe does in the league. Wade, Lebron, Durant are all on a par. Kobe won because he had the best team, and once again had a role player to hit a big shot. If Fisher doesnt hit that 3 Celtics probably win that game.

Isn't it the main achievement of a coach to have best talent in the league?
He may not be the best coach in NBA but he is the smartest man for sure.
What we get lately - inertia, stupidity, senility, and egomania.
You can substitute these words with latest line of Knicks coaches in any order you like.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
KnicksSince88
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6/21/2010  3:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/21/2010  3:51 PM
The Phil Jackson stuff is way overdone. Has he had amazing talent? Sure he has. But with great talent comes great expectations, and its basically impossible to meet those expectations any more consistently than he has. The last 6 years in Chicago that he had MJ for a full season, they won it all every single year. The 8 years in LA he had either Shaq or Pau next to Kobe, hes made the finals 7 times and won 5 rings. By my count the guy has coached 14 teams who had legit championship talent, and hes delivered 13 finals appearances and 11 rings with those groups. You just can't do better than that. That doesn't even include 94 w/o Jordan which may have been his best coaching job ever

Would Phil have rings if he was coaching average talent? Of course not. But I don't think you can just plug in any coach and expect his teams would have won ALL 11 rings he won. They surely would have won many, because he had talent that was too good not to win rings at some point, but i don't know that they get all 11

Who do you consider the greatest coach of this last 15 years if not for Phil Jackson. Larry Brown? Guy couldn't win with the 2004 olympic team, had a greater talent advantage than Phil ever did with that group and pissed it away by feuding all summer with 'Bron and Melo. To me that will forever be a knock on his legacy as i think its the worst coaching job ive ever seen in any sport, ever. Coach Pop? Phil is the best coach of his generation, hes also happened to have the best players, but hes gotten as much out of those players as you possibly could
JrZyHuStLa
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6/21/2010  5:37 PM
"Phil has the best talent."

"Kobe has the best team."

No shyt, which is why they're back to back champs.
PresIke
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6/21/2010  7:24 PM
magic > kobe
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Marv
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6/21/2010  9:08 PM
PresIke wrote:magic > kobe

agreed.
iSergio
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6/21/2010  9:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/21/2010  9:31 PM
Kobe Bryant is the second best player I've ever seen. Nothing wrong with that.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. LeBron James
4. Hakeem Olajuwon
5. Karl Malone
KnicksSince88
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6/21/2010  9:33 PM
iSergio wrote:Kobe Bryant is the second best player I've ever seen. Nothing wrong with that.

I disagree. Its obviously apples and oranges to compare Big men and wing players, but prime Shaq was someone id take on my team over Kobe 10 times out of 10. He was just an absurdly dominant force.
iSergio
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6/21/2010  9:35 PM
KnicksSince88 wrote:
iSergio wrote:Kobe Bryant is the second best player I've ever seen. Nothing wrong with that.

I disagree. Its obviously apples and oranges to compare Big men and wing players, but prime Shaq was someone id take on my team over Kobe 10 times out of 10. He was just an absurdly dominant force.

Eh, forgot about Shaq. You're right, that prime Shaq from 2000-2003 was a monster.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe Bryant
4. LeBron James
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
KnicksSince88
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6/21/2010  9:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/21/2010  9:54 PM
Also, people put a lock of stock into titles. I'll say this, keeping it to wing players, ive seen LeBron and Wade play on levels higher than I've ever seen Kobe play. Does anyone really think they wouldn't have his rings if they had his team? Kobe was collectively .500 over 3 years of his prime when he didn't have a great cast and never won a playoff series. Could he win 60+ games with the Cavs? To me what LeBron did to get a team to a final in 2007 was more impressive than any championship ive seen Kobe win. He beat an excellent Piston team by himself. Wade won with an older Shaq who took a backseat to him. Does anyone not think he would have won with prime Shaq? Does anyone not think these guys could not win with Gasol and Co.? And its not like Kobe has lit the finals on fire in his career

I think Wade and LeBron, in addition to being more efficient offensively (much more) bring more to the table. I know most will disagree simply because Kobe has 5 titles. What are the chances a LeBron or Wade led team could win a game 3 at Boston shooting 10 for 29 (like Kobe did) or win a game 7 shooting 6 for 24. LeBron drops 45 in a game 7 vs Boston and loses (in 08). Kobe has a much better team
kam77
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6/22/2010  3:08 PM
I would also take a certain guy by the name of Larry Bird, in his prime, over Kobe.

Larry was LeBron-like (minus the hyper athleticism, but plus a deadly shooting game) in terms of court vision.
Larry could score with anyone.
Larry could rebound way better than Kobe.
Basketball IQ, team leadership, game winning clutch shots...

BIRD!

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
KnicksSince88
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6/22/2010  3:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/22/2010  3:52 PM
D-Wade this year against the Celts played about as well as a player could conceivably play. He averaged 33 pts, 7 ast on over 56% shooting. And his team still lost 4-1. In order to win the game they did win, he had to go off for 46 on 16 for 24 shooting. He has no one on his team, Boston was doubling him in the back court at times, it was ridiculous. This is a guy who won with a lesser Shaq and may have won 2 if they both didn't get hurt late in the conference finals in 2005. If he had Kobe's teams, he'd have his rings. Same with LeBron. What are the chances a Wade or LeBron led team could get by Oklahoma City and Boston with Wade or LeBron shooting 40% for the whole series like Kobe did? Basically 0%.

Wade is right now where Kobe was after Shaq left and before Pau got there. He has no team. And just like when Kobe had no team, his squads were barely above .500
MS
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6/22/2010  3:51 PM
Wade and Lebron are better then Kobe right now. If the roles were reversed Kobe couldn't carry a team. He is an amazing player and was off the charts in the playoffs but he has guys that step up time and time again. Fisher is about a clutch a player as there is in this league. With Kobe have a rough game 7 Gasol and Artest carried the team to victory. Odom, Gasol, Artest are all better than any supporting cast member lebron had.

And for Wade to get the Heat into the playoffs was amazing. The also lost a home game at the buzzer to the Celtics so Wade could have actually won two games by himself. Kobe had Bulter and Odom and couldn't get the team to the playoffs.
KnicksSince88
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6/22/2010  4:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/22/2010  4:05 PM
MS wrote:Wade and Lebron are better then Kobe right now. If the roles were reversed Kobe couldn't carry a team. He is an amazing player and was off the charts in the playoffs but he has guys that step up time and time again. Fisher is about a clutch a player as there is in this league. With Kobe have a rough game 7 Gasol and Artest carried the team to victory. Odom, Gasol, Artest are all better than any supporting cast member lebron had.

And for Wade to get the Heat into the playoffs was amazing. The also lost a home game at the buzzer to the Celtics so Wade could have actually won two games by himself. Kobe had Bulter and Odom and couldn't get the team to the playoffs.

LeBron as well as Wade definitely had better individual series vs Boston this post-season than Kobe did. And they both took L's for it. Everyone wants to harp on LeBrons poor game 5 where he shot 3 for 14 vs the Celts, he had an excellent series otherwise. And unlike Kobe, who's team can still win when he shoots 10 for 29 (gm 3 vs Celts) and 6 for 24 (gm 7 vs Celts) LeBron's team can't survive that poor a performance from him. They can't beat an OKC or a Boston if Wade or LeBron shot 40% for the series, like Kobe just did. Heck compare Kobe and LeBron game 7 against the Celts. LeBron drops 45 in 08 in the Boston Garden and loses. Kobe shoots 6 for 24 and wins. People can make rings the end all be all all they want, but to me LeBron and Wade are better players (not by a ton) and would surely have Kobe's rings if they had his team
anrst
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6/22/2010  6:13 PM
what's kobe's greatest momemnt? I can't think of any.

Jordan, i can think of plenty and cant' settle on one.
Vmart
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6/22/2010  6:20 PM
This should be moved to the NBA discussion board. After Kobe wins this same debate seems to comeback. It already has more repeats than Kobe and Jordan combined. This is one debate that has no answer as you can not compare players from different era. If you can do it it is very difficult to do so accurately. Why can't we just chalk it up and say they both are great talents in their own way.
KnicksSince88
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6/22/2010  6:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/22/2010  7:32 PM
You can certainly compare players from different eras. Sure, its harder than it is to compare guys of the same era, but i feel pretty safe in saying LeBron is better than Brian Quinnet. Or can i not make that comparison because they played in different eras? Can I say Hakeem was better than Brook Lopez? Or can i not come to a real conclusion because they played in different eras? I understand these are extreme examples, but if you watched both guys play, you can draw your own conclusion. Jordan was a better player than Kobe, era or not. And its not like we are comparing back 50 years, where we would wonder how Wilt would fare in a league where the average Center was not 6'6" - 6'9" ish.(Still would have been great, but not posted quite the same numbers, also would be used differently) To me its fairly obvious to anyone who saw both Kobe and MJ

Im still not convinced hes better than Wade or LeBron (I dont think he is)
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