subzero0 wrote:Face it guys, it was a dumb plan and it is going to result in the continual failure for us all over again.

(Repost from http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=34740)

Anybody with a brain knows Lebron isn't going to sign with New York. He doesn't want to be looked at as a villain, which is how he would be viewed because if it did happen everyone will know that he left just for the money. It really is as simple as that.

This plan was destined to fail. Why? Because you don't start the build of the foundation of a championship team with free agency, you start with the draft. Just ask the Los Angeles Lakers who scored Kobe from the draft (albeit a trade, but a draft addition nonetheless) or ask the Celtics, who picked Paul Pierce from the draft. If you want to spin your wheels and become a perennial playoff loser then yes, the Knicks are heading in the right direction. If the Knicks want to become a dynasty then their approach is all wrong. But I dont expect Mike D'Antoni (formerly of the perennial playoff loser Phoenix Suns) and Walsh (formerly of the perennial playoff loser Pacers) to understand this fact.

Go to the draft and get a championship level talent. If you dont score one in that particular year, bide your time and wait for the next year. After you have your young championship level player go to free agency and add to your team. Everyone knows this, I am not sure why this is such a mystery to some people. But as I said, I am not expecting Walsh or D'Antoni to know this.

OK, so why hasn't LeBron James re-signed with Cleveland yet? Do you know him personally? If you're not related to him or one of his boys, stop assuming you know what he's thinking and what he's going to do. You don't know what is going to happen. LeBron has been in Cleveland his entire life. He didn't go to college. He's never had the chance to get away and experience something new. Until now.

Nalod wrote:

Marv wrote:

Nalod wrote:They could not move Paul Pierce with his contract. I would not say them built around him but built despite him and it worked. It would be like Marbury if we surrounded him with starphuch talent and it worked provideing the douche bag got on board, which Pierce did.

Of course you rebuild with top 3 draft picks. But we don't go down that deep to rebuild because of ownership and fans. So the old saying "you can't rebuild in NY" holds true cuz we don't do it for what ever reason.

Kobe was basically a 13th pick. Lakes took a HS kid and commited to let him develop. Took Kobe 3 years to become Kobe.

Closest time we could have rebult was under Layden when we had expirings coming off the books and our picks. Would have still taken a year or two longer. Nobody would have it, it was a "crisis" and the Ssvior Isiah come in and the big buzz became him and Marbury.

Yeah, Im all for rebuilding and Im long on record for it.

you’re letting layden off way too easy imo. He got canned after he had traded camby and nene for dice who immediately crumbled to the floor. that was his equivalent of the eddy curry gamble and the mcgrady gamble. so far we're 0-2 on these big gambles.

But Dice's injury was not related and Dice was a big time in prime player.

dice came off a huge injury and played exactly 10 games the year before layden traded for him, averaging 11 and 6 in those 10 games. it was a huge gamble based on the type of injury it was.

That is an old arguement but if you recall the 18mos that followed we did nothing. We drafted, we did not trade a pick, we did nothing but be PATIENT.

Im not saying Layden did not deserve to be fired, Im saying that we were in a position to tank and rebuild and I really believe its Dolan (as any owner) who determines the direction of the franchise and the GM follows. Layden was bad at exectution I certainly agree. Layden had teh Marbury deal on his desk and maybe he didn't think it was a good Idea. Maybe he did, but it didn't get done on his watch.

I by saying we were ready to rebuild under Layden was not an endorsement of his acumen but the assets that we had and expiring at that time.

Camby was always hurt and Nene is really not that good. Dice was spectacular! Dice in his return has been better than NENE. Camby has been quite a suprise.

dice was spectacular BEFORE his injury, over a year prior to layden's trading for him. layden gambled his bankroll that he would regain it. in his return he's averaged less points than nene, shot a lower percentage, had fewer blocks, and the same number of rebounds.

it may have taken 18 months, but especially since he did nothing after, i think you can fairly point to that gamble as his do-or-die deal.

Nalod wrote:Lets not forget Lebron can go to Chicago (doubt it), Miami and with the Russian to Brooklyn.

Fear the Russian my friends http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/sports/basketball/27nets.html?src=twt&twt=nytimes

You think a ride on his 200 ft yacht might on the Riveria might convince him that Akron kind of blows and hanging with him can make his Billioniare dreams possible, have fun, win, and learn about business kind of appealing? Dolan can pay him and play tamborine in his band.

Read this article. IT makes Dolan look bad. And Dolan ain't going no where.

Don't forget Dallas. They can put together a sign and trade with Eric Dampier's non guaranteed final year

iSergio wrote:

subzero0 wrote:Face it guys, it was a dumb plan and it is going to result in the continual failure for us all over again.

(Repost from http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=34740)

Anybody with a brain knows Lebron isn't going to sign with New York. He doesn't want to be looked at as a villain, which is how he would be viewed because if it did happen everyone will know that he left just for the money. It really is as simple as that.

This plan was destined to fail. Why? Because you don't start the build of the foundation of a championship team with free agency, you start with the draft. Just ask the Los Angeles Lakers who scored Kobe from the draft (albeit a trade, but a draft addition nonetheless) or ask the Celtics, who picked Paul Pierce from the draft. If you want to spin your wheels and become a perennial playoff loser then yes, the Knicks are heading in the right direction. If the Knicks want to become a dynasty then their approach is all wrong. But I dont expect Mike D'Antoni (formerly of the perennial playoff loser Phoenix Suns) and Walsh (formerly of the perennial playoff loser Pacers) to understand this fact.

Go to the draft and get a championship level talent. If you dont score one in that particular year, bide your time and wait for the next year. After you have your young championship level player go to free agency and add to your team. Everyone knows this, I am not sure why this is such a mystery to some people. But as I said, I am not expecting Walsh or D'Antoni to know this.

OK, so why hasn't LeBron James re-signed with Cleveland yet? Do you know him personally? If you're not related to him or one of his boys, stop assuming you know what he's thinking and what he's going to do. You don't know what is going to happen. LeBron has been in Cleveland his entire life. He didn't go to college. He's never had the chance to get away and experience something new. Until now.

Yea, because it is obvious that Lebron is going to sign with the Knicks right? /Sarcasm

It doesn't even make sense to argue this. Reply to this comment when Lebron signs with the Knicks iSergio.

fishmike wrote:

Marv wrote:

misterearl wrote:What fishmike said

Repeat after us, "there is no quick fix... even in New York... and even with (cough) cap space"

Lebron is happy where he is, Dwayne is a better fit in Chicago and Joe Johnson is not clutch in the playoffs

Chris Bosh and David Lee are redundant

and I love David Lee

and then the big question will be, are we better off with what we have to show for our signings or would we have been better off with 1 max slot + jordan hill + our 2012 first-round pick + not giving Houston the right to swap first-round picks in 2011.

To me thats not a question at all.

We are doing this because it gives us a shot at a star player, the most elusive thing to aquire in the NBA. Its no different than a firesale for draft picks and then tanking. You dont know if your going to win the lottery, or if you do its going to yield you a franchise player. You do it because it gives you the best *chance* and thats the focus here.

Someone mentioned how good a chance is that?

I dont know. What if its 10%? Would you do it still? I would. Phuck yea. I will take a 10% chance to get a guy like Lebron. We gave up one pick w/ protection and we switched another. Could it burn us? Sure, but this plan doesnt leave us devoid of other options.

We have been over tons of scenarios where the cap space lets us make 1000 different trades. We can be the always coveted 3rd team in sign and trade scenarios. We can take back players with bigger contracts.

MS.. you ask what has Walsh done? He's done something no GM has done here in the last 10 years. He's stuck to a plan for more than half a season. He came in and was determined to purge the roster and current practice of collecting marginally talented cast off players with lucrative contracts. He hasnt improved the team, but he has done something, and thats stick to his plan. NOW its his turn to prove that plan is worth it. Lets see what he does with his flexibility and who is on the roster next year. Its going to be a very interesting draft. Many teams are selling picks to afford resigning their big players. Many teams have multiple picks. Many teams need cheap players. Walsh showed he values the draft with the Douglas pick. $3mm is $3mm... we went out and got a good player.

yeah well what if that draft pick turns out to be jan vesely???

The supporting cast the Knicks surround whatever free agent they are fortunate to sign will take time to cohere as a team. The leadership in the front office MUST be consistent in their decisions. The key is continuity and courage. Maintaining the same GM is critical. Win or lose.

Forget the press speculation. The direction of the Knicks franchise for the next decade is on the clock.

this ain't a pickup game

and RealGM don't mean a thing