AnubisADL wrote:

Cosmic wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Lets not jump to conclusions now folks but Douglas has come back to reality.

How so?

He's playing against the league's elite the past three games so of course he's going to look shaky. He's been given big minutes (about 32 a night now after only doing about 12-15 a night earlier in the year) and you've got to believe he's hitting a bit of the proverbial "rookie wall" as a result. Maybe he's even a bit nicked up and we just don't know it.

Toney Douglas was a great pick and has proven that he may be a very good player for us.

To watch you cherry pick his last two games and gleefully bash Douglas shows you have an agenda.

Seriously man what are you talking about? Rookie Wall? Ok I get it the last 2 games dont count because he didnt put up 20 but the ones before do. Yea and Im the one with the agenda.

Do you see the title of this thread?

I see the title of the thread and I agree with it.

I also see someone who is happy when the Knicks lose or one of their players does poorly and jumps on it to laugh it up.

I also see someone who is in love with Jennings more than his (supposedly) favorite team and in that he is going to be bias in favor of that player.

Cosmic wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Lets not jump to conclusions now folks but Douglas has come back to reality.

How so?

He's playing against the league's elite the past three games so of course he's going to look shaky. He's been given big minutes (about 32 a night now after only doing about 12-15 a night earlier in the year) and you've got to believe he's hitting a bit of the proverbial "rookie wall" as a result. Maybe he's even a bit nicked up and we just don't know it.

Toney Douglas was a great pick and has proven that he may be a very good player for us.

To watch you cherry pick his last two games and gleefully bash Douglas shows you have an agenda.

Sounds like your making excuses for him instead of just facing the fact that he's just not ready

knicks1248 wrote:

Cosmic wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Lets not jump to conclusions now folks but Douglas has come back to reality.

How so?

He's playing against the league's elite the past three games so of course he's going to look shaky. He's been given big minutes (about 32 a night now after only doing about 12-15 a night earlier in the year) and you've got to believe he's hitting a bit of the proverbial "rookie wall" as a result. Maybe he's even a bit nicked up and we just don't know it.

Toney Douglas was a great pick and has proven that he may be a very good player for us.

To watch you cherry pick his last two games and gleefully bash Douglas shows you have an agenda.

Sounds like your making excuses for him instead of just facing the fact that he's just not ready

Getting smoked by Deron Williams doesnt sway my opinion that Douglas is a good player and a keeper.

This is why people say you cant rebuild in NY. Knick fans are incapable of watching players grow and go through growing pains. Its "he's the best" and then "no.. actually he sucks" followed by "he's the best again" followed by "at least he's a rotation guy" then "lets trade him..." you get the idea.

The only guy we have drafted and actually watched mature into a solid all star caliber player since Ewing? Yea.. Lee. And half the people here want to run him out of town for Bosh who's been ineffective since he tore his labia

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Cosmic wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Lets not jump to conclusions now folks but Douglas has come back to reality.

How so?

He's playing against the league's elite the past three games so of course he's going to look shaky. He's been given big minutes (about 32 a night now after only doing about 12-15 a night earlier in the year) and you've got to believe he's hitting a bit of the proverbial "rookie wall" as a result. Maybe he's even a bit nicked up and we just don't know it.

Toney Douglas was a great pick and has proven that he may be a very good player for us.

To watch you cherry pick his last two games and gleefully bash Douglas shows you have an agenda.

Sounds like your making excuses for him instead of just facing the fact that he's just not ready

he got outplayed by one of the elite PGs in the league last night. Does anyone here have a problem with that? He's a good player and he's tough and he's a guy thats going to look at tape of every possesion and figure out what he could do better to defend him next time.

Getting smoked by Deron Williams doesnt sway my opinion that Douglas is a good player and a keeper.

This is why people say you cant rebuild in NY. Knick fans are incapable of watching players grow and go through growing pains. Its "he's the best" and then "no.. actually he sucks" followed by "he's the best again" followed by "at least he's a rotation guy" then "lets trade him..." you get the idea.

The only guy we have drafted and actually watched mature into a solid all star caliber player since Ewing? Yea.. Lee. And half the people here want to run him out of town for Bosh who's been ineffective since he tore his labia

I agree 100%.. It just can't be done if you ask me.. not with this fan base.. I find it funny, because NY fans feel they have the right to have a winner, but are unwilling to go through the pains of building one. we want a mansion built in a day, but are ready to criticize the Builder if the foundation crumbles because it didn't have proper time to cure. we seem to have a hard time seeing the finished product from the stick framing... really, rookies are going to have good and bad games, but you have to look past the growing pains and look at the player... we are told if Douglas or gallo has a good game, to "calm down", but one bad game and all of a sudden they are rookie busts...

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Cosmic wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Lets not jump to conclusions now folks but Douglas has come back to reality.

How so?

He's playing against the league's elite the past three games so of course he's going to look shaky. He's been given big minutes (about 32 a night now after only doing about 12-15 a night earlier in the year) and you've got to believe he's hitting a bit of the proverbial "rookie wall" as a result. Maybe he's even a bit nicked up and we just don't know it.

Toney Douglas was a great pick and has proven that he may be a very good player for us.

To watch you cherry pick his last two games and gleefully bash Douglas shows you have an agenda.

Sounds like your making excuses for him instead of just facing the fact that he's just not ready

he got outplayed by one of the elite PGs in the league last night. Does anyone here have a problem with that? He's a good player and he's tough and he's a guy thats going to look at tape of every possesion and figure out what he could do better to defend him next time.

Getting smoked by Deron Williams doesnt sway my opinion that Douglas is a good player and a keeper.

This is why people say you cant rebuild in NY. Knick fans are incapable of watching players grow and go through growing pains. Its "he's the best" and then "no.. actually he sucks" followed by "he's the best again" followed by "at least he's a rotation guy" then "lets trade him..." you get the idea.

The only guy we have drafted and actually watched mature into a solid all star caliber player since Ewing? Yea.. Lee. And half the people here want to run him out of town for Bosh who's been ineffective since he tore his labia

I'll tell you why most knick fans flip flop, we have these young players who play good for a few games show real promise for a week or 2, then turn into pure garbage for longer stretches. Gallo is a perfect exmaple of that. Now if you take a look at some of the more consistant rookies "Like Jenneings/Collison, , they may have 2 bad games out of 6 our rookies are just the opposite your probably going to think, well they were getting consistant minutes, well there,s no way MDA is going to continue with a struggling DUHON and a eratic sergio, while he has a much better pg in TONEY sitting there, it's completey naive to even think that.

Douglas has not played consistant, and at this point he's looking like every other PG we have had, good one minute horrible the next

AnubisADL wrote:

fishmike wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:No one pretends Jennings is perfect but comparing Jennings to Douglas is like comparing Blake Griffin to Dejuan Blair.

thats not fair. Was Jennings universally regarded as a franchise player? I dont think so.

Jennings is the far more talented player but it doesnt mean he's better or going to be better.

I think the title thread is knee jerk and designed to get people's attention and thats 100% ok.

I will say that as a defender Douglas is better now and has a higher ceiling. He's stronger, has a longer wingspan and was the quickest player in the draft. We will know in 4 years for sure.

I think the gist is Douglas is pretty good and at the very worst will be a solid rotation guy. Pretty solid grab for a last first rounder picked up for cash only

Jennings isnt a Franchise player.

Douglas was drafted late because his PG skills are non-existent and he is already 24. Douglas is basically a young Mike James. Now I know some dont want to hear that but a young Mike James on a rookie deal is great value for where he was drafted.

I don't think I'd go that far. I think Douglas plays quite a bit better than James does at his best. We haven't seen Toney's best. Albeit he isn't young so you wouldn't project a high ceiling either here.

But Toney is playing quite well. Not sure why any fan would have a problem with him. You look at our draft and it's a no-brainer that you do it over again and you select Douglas at 8 and Hill at 29 as your project.

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

fishmike wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:No one pretends Jennings is perfect but comparing Jennings to Douglas is like comparing Blake Griffin to Dejuan Blair.

thats not fair. Was Jennings universally regarded as a franchise player? I dont think so.

Jennings is the far more talented player but it doesnt mean he's better or going to be better.

I think the title thread is knee jerk and designed to get people's attention and thats 100% ok.

I will say that as a defender Douglas is better now and has a higher ceiling. He's stronger, has a longer wingspan and was the quickest player in the draft. We will know in 4 years for sure.

I think the gist is Douglas is pretty good and at the very worst will be a solid rotation guy. Pretty solid grab for a last first rounder picked up for cash only

Jennings isnt a Franchise player.

Douglas was drafted late because his PG skills are non-existent and he is already 24. Douglas is basically a young Mike James. Now I know some dont want to hear that but a young Mike James on a rookie deal is great value for where he was drafted.

if TD turns into Mike James at his peak, i'd be happy with that... the dude was a big shot maker down the stretch of games & a serious threat to score on the perimeter... very reminiscent of Tim Hardaway in many respects... dude was a 20 & 6 player at one point... i happen to think TD plays defense at a higher level than James ever did, so overall i think he'll be more, but u could do a lot worse than Mike James with a #29 pick in the draft.

What mike James are you talking about, the one i recalled is an inconsistant scorer, who never could sustain a high level of play.

IF TD turns into Billups I'd be okay with that.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Cosmic wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Lets not jump to conclusions now folks but Douglas has come back to reality.

How so?

He's playing against the league's elite the past three games so of course he's going to look shaky. He's been given big minutes (about 32 a night now after only doing about 12-15 a night earlier in the year) and you've got to believe he's hitting a bit of the proverbial "rookie wall" as a result. Maybe he's even a bit nicked up and we just don't know it.

Toney Douglas was a great pick and has proven that he may be a very good player for us.

To watch you cherry pick his last two games and gleefully bash Douglas shows you have an agenda.

Sounds like your making excuses for him instead of just facing the fact that he's just not ready

he got outplayed by one of the elite PGs in the league last night. Does anyone here have a problem with that? He's a good player and he's tough and he's a guy thats going to look at tape of every possesion and figure out what he could do better to defend him next time.

Getting smoked by Deron Williams doesnt sway my opinion that Douglas is a good player and a keeper.

This is why people say you cant rebuild in NY. Knick fans are incapable of watching players grow and go through growing pains. Its "he's the best" and then "no.. actually he sucks" followed by "he's the best again" followed by "at least he's a rotation guy" then "lets trade him..." you get the idea.

The only guy we have drafted and actually watched mature into a solid all star caliber player since Ewing? Yea.. Lee. And half the people here want to run him out of town for Bosh who's been ineffective since he tore his labia

I'll tell you why most knick fans flip flop, we have these young players who play good for a few games show real promise for a week or 2, then turn into pure garbage for longer stretches. Gallo is a perfect exmaple of that. Now if you take a look at some of the more consistant rookies "Like Jenneings/Collison, , they may have 2 bad games out of 6 our rookies are just the opposite your probably going to think, well they were getting consistant minutes, well there,s no way MDA is going to continue with a struggling DUHON and a eratic sergio, while he has a much better pg in TONEY sitting there, it's completey naive to even think that.

Douglas has not played consistant, and at this point he's looking like every other PG we have had, good one minute horrible the next

I bet we can go through game logs for most of these young players and find that.. I am looking at jennings game logs now and I can point to several stretches where he had 4 stinkers and 2 good games. And a good game, I am not talking about him taking 22 shots and getting 17 points and calling that good..