BRIGGS wrote:

djsunyc wrote:morey is going to make a major push for bosh. so if he wants to sign there, hill and those knicks picks will be going back to toronto in the package.

That would be the ultimate scrw job.

Those Knicks picks aren't much. I don't think you can trade a pick swap anyway so it's the 2012.

If those picks turn out important than we all give up because we just watched two more years of garbage basketball and I think just about everyone has had enough of that.

As to Bosh to Texas, well, I guess it's possible. Yet Dallas can't pull it off. Spurs can't pull it off. And even if Houston can why would anyone go there anyway. So I don't put much into that.

Bosh could go to Miami with Wade. He could go to Chicago. He could go to NY or he could stay home.

Not many options but all the same....the fact that you can put these top FA names in NY? Is reason enough to do what we did to be able to get them to NY.

It's a whole lot better than putting your next 6 years into the hands of Eddy McCurry.

I really think this trade was about Lee. I think they will sign a max FA. Hopefully its one we all like. The problem is that meant letting Lee walk for nothing.

I think the Knicks see Hill+pick+swap = David Lee for $10mm. I would have to agree with that. Trueblue can spout all he wants but Lee is frontcourt player that gives you 20/12/55%/3assists every night. I think bringing him back is worth Hill+pick+swap.

fishmike wrote:the Knicks had no reason to force Hill minutes this year. He was under his rookie contract. The hope was to win games with the veterans. When that failed I believe the hope was to get picks or prospects (like w/ Nate) for the veterans. When that failed the option they were left with was including Hill in a deal they didnt want to make, but felt they had to to have a chance for next year.

I really think this trade was about Lee. I think they will sign a max FA. Hopefully its one we all like. The problem is that meant letting Lee walk for nothing.

I think the Knicks see Hill+pick+swap = David Lee for $10mm. I would have to agree with that. Trueblue can spout all he wants but Lee is frontcourt player that gives you 20/12/55%/3assists every night. I think bringing him back is worth Hill+pick+swap.

(the bolded part) why would this have ever been a good idea if true? this was a bad team last year, this year, heck almost 10 years. you have a lotto pick and other 1st rounder you could be finding out what they can do to help with 2010. td is still rotting away.

i hope they didnt make that trade to keep lee... then they screwed up by NOT signing lee to a long term deal and made trades in order to make up for that mistake... thats awful.

nixluva wrote:If DW can get the agents to talk up the idea of winning in NY like A Rod and Jeter have done and

talk up? yanks actually winning titles did the talking for them during the 90's. that and obviously being able to outspend anybody for the player they want.

this summer will prove once and for all if the best want to play in ny if the playing field (i.e. contract offers) is level...

nixluva wrote:One thing that people seem to keep overlooking is that DW has been around for LONG time and he's made friends with bigtime agents like Arn Tellem. These guys are tight and he's already looked out for his boy many times. When it comes time to start picking locations, DW's guys among the Agent fraternity are gonna push NY as a destination, not cuz we have such a strong roster foundation, but because it's the perfect place to make your legacy and win. If DW can get the agents to talk up the idea of winning in NY like A Rod and Jeter have done and they start showing the parades down the canyon of heroes and start talking about the many new marketing partners that will be waiting for them, I think it's going to be a VERY strong pitch.

Guys like Hill shouldn't be our concern at this point. Hill's not going to be the difference between winning a title or not. We already know that it's usually the best players in the league that vie for a title. Those are the kinds of guys we're shooting for and it's worth the risk of whatever Hill is likely to turn into.

Oh really? Please name the top level FA that Walsh signed in Indiana with all his big time connections. Unless Stern is going to make an exception for the Knicks as far as the CBA is concern please don't compare MLB and NBA financial structures.

nixluva wrote:One thing that people seem to keep overlooking is that DW has been around for LONG time and he's made friends with bigtime agents like Arn Tellem. These guys are tight and he's already looked out for his boy many times. When it comes time to start picking locations, DW's guys among the Agent fraternity are gonna push NY as a destination, not cuz we have such a strong roster foundation, but because it's the perfect place to make your legacy and win. If DW can get the agents to talk up the idea of winning in NY like A Rod and Jeter have done and they start showing the parades down the canyon of heroes and start talking about the many new marketing partners that will be waiting for them, I think it's going to be a VERY strong pitch.

Guys like Hill shouldn't be our concern at this point. Hill's not going to be the difference between winning a title or not. We already know that it's usually the best players in the league that vie for a title. Those are the kinds of guys we're shooting for and it's worth the risk of whatever Hill is likely to turn into.

Worked well with Kidd and G Hill this offseason.

BRIGGS wrote:

Cosmic wrote:

Markji wrote:It's times like this that I wish we had Isiah ....uh NO!
Layden .... Uh, NO!

When was the last time we had someone in management who did something well? Probably the Spree trade.

When we get LeBron, we will forget how bad this trade was because LeBron will single-handedly win 5 Championships for us??? Just poorly executed management and coaching.

Ok, so I read this post. And I do like reading your posts and POV.

But now I have to ask. What did you/do you envision Jordan Hill doing in the NBA?

12/8?
20/10/2 blocks?
Sweetney?
Duncan?

I mean, what do you see? (And everyone that's so irate over dropping this guy).

Franchise building block?
15 min per night 9th man?

What do you see?

...it's an honest question.

Was the Jeffries trade excessive? Yes, it was. To drop 10M in salary you give up your 8th pick from a previous draft (which, btw, I still maintain we essentially used Hill - to get rid of Hill [2.7M]), the 2011 swap, that's fine, but the 2012 pick is the one that was too much.

Regardless what I try to do is look at the entire body of work. The entire 2 year tear down of the roster.

What did we give up to drop 100M in salary?

Mardy Collins, Jordan Hill, 2011 swap, 2012 pick.

When you think of it that way, and you ask yourself "What would I do to have a shot at 2 of LeBron, Amare, Wade, Bosh, JJ, Boozer, etc?" - if someone said that's all it would cost?

There isn't a single fan on this or any forum that wouldn't give up what we gave up to have that shot.

To me, that's the bottom line. What did I give up in TOTAL to get rid of all that trash? In the end, not much. You look at the single trade and yes it WAS excessive. But you look at the entire body of work? Quite a fair price in the end.

And that's the point: THE BODY OF WORK.

The whole thing.

Now, let's see what they do with it... the flexibility. Let's see what happens over the next 2 years. Before we go nuts.

Jordan Hill. Jordan freakin Hill. Knick fans are robbing banks, punching out their girlfriends, throwing old ladies down stairs, and burning down fast food restaurants over Jordan Hill? Really? JORDAN HILL!?!?!?!?

Good LORD have we fallen or what this decade. Jordan freakin Hill. If I shake my head any more it's going to fly off through my wall and kill a next door neighbor.

Jordan Hill. Roberson. Morris. Sweetney. Butler. Yeah, they all have something in common. Some random Knick fan butters them up as a franchise building block and tries to murder everyone who disagrees.

Talk about the strange and bizarre.

Jordan Hill. LMFAO. As if we had only played him we'd have 50 wins or something. We wouldn't even have 21 for crying out loud. Dude's a hack.

Charles Oakley was replaced with Kurt Thomas eventually. Oakley made Thomas look like TRASH. Agree?

Kurt Thomas would bend Hill over his knee and spank him like a child.

...that's what we're dealing with here. Jordan Hill.

Okay, I'm done ranting on the topic. Long live JordanDuncanKareemKevinGarnettWiltChamberlainShaqEwingMaloneHill.

Cosmic--when you watch that video--does he look like a guy who could possibly be pretty darn good one day? He looks big athletic he's got good body control touch active looks like he knows how to play --how does someone come to conclusion this guy scks before he is given a chance? I mean watch the tape

don't waste your time... Cosmic has already come to the conclusion this 22 year old kid is a bust & there's nothing u can do or say to convince him otherwise... he clearly has a better handle on judging NBA talent than mere mortal NBA scouts... 24 games of sporadic play & seeing this kid twisting his hair on the sidelines is all he needs to see... BUST! stop whining!

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

fishmike wrote:its awsome. Pre-trade Hill = massive miskate and bust. Post-trade Hill = player we mismanged and cant live without

speak for yourself... some of us have been high on Jordan Hill from the very beginning & calling for him to get a real chance to play in this system since day one.

I think Hill is a souped up Mikki Moore but we never even got a chance to see if he was just a plain ole original Mikki Moore.

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

fishmike wrote:its awsome. Pre-trade Hill = massive miskate and bust. Post-trade Hill = player we mismanged and cant live without

speak for yourself... some of us have been high on Jordan Hill from the very beginning & calling for him to get a real chance to play in this system since day one.

I think Hill is a souped up Mikki Moore but we never even got a chance to see if he was just a plain ole original Mikki Moore.

everytime i hear the Mikki Moore & Chris Wilcox comparisons i SMH... Jordan Hill is way more active than Chris Wilcox & he's way more of a physical player in the paint than Mikki Moore.

TMS wrote:

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

fishmike wrote:its awsome. Pre-trade Hill = massive miskate and bust. Post-trade Hill = player we mismanged and cant live without

speak for yourself... some of us have been high on Jordan Hill from the very beginning & calling for him to get a real chance to play in this system since day one.

I think Hill is a souped up Mikki Moore but we never even got a chance to see if he was just a plain ole original Mikki Moore.

everytime i hear the Mikki Moore & Chris Wilcox comparisons i SMH... Jordan Hill is way more active than Chris Wilcox & he's way more of a physical player in the paint than Mikki Moore.