TMS wrote:the way these guys diss on Chris Bosh is pretty funny... the guy's putting up better #'s than Tim Duncan but somehow he's "overrated & overpaid"... we'd be lucky as hell to get Chris Bosh to sign here... suddenly we can pick & choose max FA's like they're all dying to come here... come on.

i think bosh gets heat cuz he has been on teams with very little post season success. to me thats why i would rather not pay him max and get him only. i think he has decent talent now and the team is kinda flat. reminds me of gilbert a (pre knee destruction). dude puts up numbers, and has limited post season success -- is that worth max (or close)? factoring in injuries, talent, future fa signings/picks, etc can swing this for sure.

they screw up and sign the "wrong" guy(s), its gonna be like curry/jj1/jj2 or see the blizzards with gil.

sidsanders wrote:

TMS wrote:the way these guys diss on Chris Bosh is pretty funny... the guy's putting up better #'s than Tim Duncan but somehow he's "overrated & overpaid"... we'd be lucky as hell to get Chris Bosh to sign here... suddenly we can pick & choose max FA's like they're all dying to come here... come on.

i think bosh gets heat cuz he has been on teams with very little post season success. to me thats why i would rather not pay him max and get him only. i think he has decent talent now and the team is kinda flat. reminds me of gilbert a (pre knee destruction). dude puts up numbers, and has limited post season success -- is that worth max (or close)? factoring in injuries, talent, future fa signings/picks, etc can swing this for sure.

they screw up and sign the "wrong" guy(s), its gonna be like curry/jj1/jj2 or see the blizzards with gil.

before KG got traded to Boston he never had much postseason success either... the 1 season he made it past the 1st round was when the T'Wolves brought in Spree & Cassell, then they missed the next 3 years of playoffs altogether... it's funny how a great supporting cast, new environment & different coach & system can change perceptions about a guy.

IMO u don't get the chance to land a player like Bosh very often, when the chance arises u have to go for it, case closed... he's not a player like Zach Randolph that comes w/all kinds of baggage... Bosh is averaging 20 & 9 over his career & he's only 25... this season he's putting up MVP calibre stats... judging a player based on his team's W-L record is a copout argument IMO... there's so many other factors that go into winning & losing than any single player... thinking that only players like Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, CP3, Dwight Howard & D Wade are the only ones worthy of the max is unrealistic thinking... there are 30 teams in the NBA, each one of them have the desire to pay a guy to be the face of their franchise.

sidsanders wrote:thats why i put in the line: "factoring in injuries, talent, future fa signings/picks, etc can swing this for sure.". while it may be unfair, perception of elite/franchise players is gonna be tied into W's (at least by fans/media types). look how ewing took a beating back in the day cuz he got "close but no cigar".

right but that's why i say u can't fairly judge Bosh based on his team's W-L records... if a guy like KG can come to BOS & completely turn around the misconceptions of his ability to take his teams to the next level, then so can Bosh IMO... same goes for Ewing, if he ever had a worthy sidekick he'd have won championships... sorry but as much as i loved John Starks (he's my alltime favorite Knick) he was never close to a superstar player & neither was Oakley, Mason, Charles Smith or Derek Harper during those years... if Ewing had been in his prime when we had Allan, Spree & Camby here we would have won in '99 w/o a doubt.

McK1 wrote:

TMS wrote:

sidsanders wrote:thats why i put in the line: "factoring in injuries, talent, future fa signings/picks, etc can swing this for sure.". while it may be unfair, perception of elite/franchise players is gonna be tied into W's (at least by fans/media types). look how ewing took a beating back in the day cuz he got "close but no cigar".

right but that's why i say u can't fairly judge Bosh based on his team's W-L records... if a guy like KG can come to BOS & completely turn around the misconceptions of his ability to take his teams to the next level, then so can Bosh IMO... same goes for Ewing, if he ever had a worthy sidekick he'd have won championships... sorry but as much as i loved John Starks (he's my alltime favorite Knick) he was never close to a superstar player & neither was Oakley, Mason, Charles Smith or Derek Harper during those years... if Ewing had been in his prime when we had Allan, Spree & Camby here we would have won in '99 w/o a doubt.

Didn't kg's wolves win 50 2 or 3 times and make the play-offs like 8 straight seasons in a very tough West?
Bosh has had nowhere near that kind of run in a very mediocre East.

the East was the tougher conference by far when KG started that playoff run in '96... the East had MJ's Bulls, Dumars & Grant Hill's Pistons, Ewing, LJ & Houston's Knicks, Zo & Hardaway's Heat, Rice & Divac's Hornets & Mutombo's Hawks... all 6 teams were 50+ game winners... the West only had 4 teams that won more than 50 games & u didn't have the greatest player to ever play in that conference either... plus KG had Marbury at his side the first 3 of those seasons... who did Chris Bosh have to play with his 1st 3 seasons in the NBA? Vince Carter only played 20 games during Bosh's rookie season... his 2nd year was Jose Calderon's rookie season & they had no one else but Mo Peterson... his 3rd season they made the playoffs & then again in his 4th season w/no one else but Bosh, TJ Ford & a buncha role players (Bargnani was a rookie in '07 & still getting his bearings in the NBA)

right now the East sucks, it's true, but u can't pin Toronto's failures on Bosh's shoulders... last year the Bosh & JO experiment was clearly a failure & this year Calderon's been out for several games but still they're in the playoff picture, albeit with a 2 games under .500 record... even KG missed out on the playoffs for 3 straight seasons after their loss in the WCF in '04... did that make him any less of a player before he got to Boston & won his championship?

McK1 wrote:

TMS wrote:overall i would say i take KG over Bosh cuz of the defense that KG played, but i think Bosh is as close as you're gonna get to KG among players playing right now who are in their prime... maybe someone like Anthony Randolph or someone else will take on that mantle in a few years, but until then Bosh is the best bigman available on the market in the best free agent class in the history of the NBA, & anyone who would pass up the opportunity to get him is a fool... no way Dirk is gonna leave DAL imo, Cuban will get him re-signed, & Amare w/o the injury issues might have been preferable but right now i'd have to give the nod to Bosh, tho i wouldn't complain 1 bit if the Knicks signed Amare either.

David Lee = no need for Bosh or Amare. Lebron loves playing with Varajeo. Lee is everything he is energy wise plus 20 ppg.

that's up to Lebron to decide... if the rumors are true then Lebron, D Wade & Bosh are already talking to each other about teams they might wanna play for next season... if they're not true & Lebron would sign w/the Knicks w/o another max guy, i'm totally fine w/signing D Lee to an extension, but IMO we'll be closer to a championship roster if we sign Lebron & Bosh or Amare than Lebron & D Lee.

McK1 wrote:David Lee has to be one of the most underappreciated talents ever.

who's underappreciating him? saying guys like Bosh & Amare are better than Lee is disrespecting Lee? i'd rather have Lee than Carlos Boozer even tho Boozer's putting up better stats... i'd rather have Lee than Zach Randolph... i'd rather have Lee than David West, a former Allstar... how is this underappreciation of David Lee?

McK1 wrote:

TMS wrote:

McK1 wrote:David Lee has to be one of the most underappreciated talents ever.

who's underappreciating him? saying guys like Bosh & Amare are better than Lee is disrespecting Lee? i'd rather have Lee than Carlos Boozer even tho Boozer's putting up better stats... i'd rather have Lee than Zach Randolph... i'd rather have Lee than David West, a former Allstar... how is this underappreciation of David Lee?

Lee is on the same tier as a basketball player as bosh and the current version of amare (so is boozer zach and david west for that matter) and wil not require a max contract to woo.

the only ones who view David Lee on the same tier as a basketball player as Bosh & Amare are you & a few other Knick fans on this forum.

simrud wrote:Lee would only be on the same level as Bosh if he develops a post game.

He seems to have developed a great jumper, and he can finish in all kinds of ways. If he could put it together and develop a back to the basket game, THEN he is on the same level.

And by the way, why can't he?

IMO there are lots of facets to Chris Bosh's game that D Lee just isn't on a par with & likely never will be (athleticism, shotblocking, ball handling, shooting range)... yes, Lee is an awesome finisher & he's a very intelligent player who rebounds w/the best of them & has developed a ton of his offensive skills since he's been in this league, but at 26 years of age how much better do we really expect D Lee to become? i think it's reasonable to think he'll improve on his low post game, maybe one day be able to put up 22 & 11 type averages over the course of a season & make an Allstar team... there's nothing wrong w/the player that D Lee is, but there's very few players in the NBA w/the skillset that Bosh has as an NBA bigman & to compare Lee to Bosh is a little unfair to Lee if u ask me.

TMS wrote:

simrud wrote:Lee would only be on the same level as Bosh if he develops a post game.

He seems to have developed a great jumper, and he can finish in all kinds of ways. If he could put it together and develop a back to the basket game, THEN he is on the same level.

And by the way, why can't he?

IMO there are lots of facets to Chris Bosh's game that D Lee just isn't on a par with & likely never will be (athleticism, shotblocking, ball handling, shooting range)... yes, Lee is an awesome finisher & he's a very intelligent player who rebounds w/the best of them & has developed a ton of his offensive skills since he's been in this league, but at 26 years of age how much better do we really expect D Lee to become? i think it's reasonable to think he'll improve on his low post game, maybe one day be able to put up 22 & 11 type averages over the course of a season & make an Allstar team... there's nothing wrong w/the player that D Lee is, but there's very few players in the NBA w/the skillset that Bosh has as an NBA bigman & to compare Lee to Bosh is a little unfair to Lee if u ask me.

I agree. bosh is longer, more athletic(probably) and more refined offensively.. but is bosh game that much better than lee, where we should blow 6-7 mil a year more on bosh? just curious..