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fishmike
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11/10/2009  1:33 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:Holiday was drafted in the lower third of the first round. He's raw, but I bet you he's their starting PG next year. Figure out a way to get high enough to get a guy like that to develop. That should be doable.

when you call Holiday "a guy like that" what kind of guy are you refering to?

Look at Phili's roster... betting on him being a starting PG soon isnt a real stretch. Pretty sure evil could win that job

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
AUTOADVERT
JohnWallace44
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11/10/2009  1:36 PM
cooch2584 wrote:so that guy is a taller duhon??

What is your problem bro? Yes, if we had a bigger, faster, stronger Duhon, that'd probably be good, no?

What is this "original question" you're getting after?

Douglas is a combo guard who's 6'1". Right off the top that sounds like a nice backup.


What would be constructive would be if you'd come back with examples of shooting guards who were 6'1" or smaller who converted to PG's in the NBA and became stars.

Out of;
- Wall - Ky
- Lee - UCLA
- Shumpert - GTech
- Gaddy - Wash
- White - Miss
- Vasquez - Maryland
- Jasper - UNLV
- Warren - OK
- Bradley - Texas

All these guys are PG's or combo guards who are 6'3+ so don't tell me they don't exist.

I think its a pretty vanilla argument to say that we should try to get one of these guys to compete with the other big PG's we have to go through to get deep in the playoffs.

I don't understand why you'd argue otherwise except to prove that you're a Knicks superfan.

You know Tyreke Evans got to the line 19 times the other night? You know what a difference that would make for a team like ours in a system like ours? The scoring droughts would go away immediately for one thing, and if the defense ever tried to double the PG in our system, who do they come off of? They'd have to come off a guy standing at the 3 point line waiting to knock down a trey.

Again, just an opinion, but I don't know why you would disregard the size advantage the best PG's in the league have over us and a lot of other teams.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
kam77
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11/10/2009  1:41 PM
Its not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
franco12
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11/10/2009  1:42 PM
We'll just put TD in a set of these:

JW- that make you happpy????
fishmike
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11/10/2009  1:42 PM
Tyreke Evan's was a top 5 pick. Why are we comparing him to Toney Douglas?

What is a combo guard again?

Douglas is just as "long" as Stephen Curry, Eric Maynor, Jodie Meeks, Jonny Flynn, Ty Lawson, Jerryd Batless, Ramon Sessions, Randy Foye, Monta Ellis, Chris Paul, Jameer Nelson.

Tell me again why that "sounds" like a backup? I seem to be missing a key point somewhere.

Douglas isnt top 5 talent, so I dont expect him to blow people away the minute he gets burn, but he is just as good as half the scrubs you pine over.

Oh... and just as long too!

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
JohnWallace44
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11/10/2009  1:44 PM
fishmike wrote:allow me:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/

Douglas is just as LONG as the other guys. You owe me a shiney nickle
height in shoes/wingpan
Douglas 6'2/6'6
Derrick Rose 6'2.5/6'8
Chris Paul 6'1/6'4
Jameer Nelson 6'0/6'2

We could go on with this all day. Its stupid. Why argue facts when we can just make up our own?

Nice leaving out Rondo and Harris who are the crux of the debate.

Rondo: 6'10 wingspan
Harris: 6'7.5" wingspan
Evans: 7'3" wingspan
Westbrook: 6'7.75" wingspan

I'm not just making this stuff up. These guys have a size advantage on Douglas. That's not debatable. It's not career threatening or anything, I just think that its hard for him to overcome to the point of becoming an all-star.

He may become an all-star despite all that. That is debatable.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
cooch2584
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11/10/2009  1:47 PM
SO NOW WE NEED AN ALL STAR
kam77
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11/10/2009  1:48 PM
What is Duhon's height and wingspan? Are we comparing him to Douglas?? Cuz those other guys aren't on our roster.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
cooch2584
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11/10/2009  1:49 PM
JW your a joke
SupremeCommander
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11/10/2009  1:50 PM
cooch--I feel you dude... take a step back before your skull explodes
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Panos
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11/10/2009  1:52 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:
fishmike wrote:allow me:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/

Douglas is just as LONG as the other guys. You owe me a shiney nickle
height in shoes/wingpan
Douglas 6'2/6'6
Derrick Rose 6'2.5/6'8
Chris Paul 6'1/6'4
Jameer Nelson 6'0/6'2

We could go on with this all day. Its stupid. Why argue facts when we can just make up our own?

Nice leaving out Rondo and Harris who are the crux of the debate.

Rondo: 6'10 wingspan
Harris: 6'7.5" wingspan
Evans: 7'3" wingspan
Westbrook: 6'7.75" wingspan

I'm not just making this stuff up. These guys have a size advantage on Douglas. That's not debatable. It's not career threatening or anything, I just think that its hard for him to overcome to the point of becoming an all-star.

He may become an all-star despite all that. That is debatable.


So the fact that there are 2 guys with more significant "length" in the league means what exactly?
Where is the correlation between length and PG skill here? Is Rondo the best PG in the league since he's the "longest"?
JohnWallace44
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11/10/2009  1:57 PM
cooch2584 wrote:JW your a joke

Cooch, if you're stating that Douglas is bigger than the next generation PG's that are tearing up the league, then you're wrong. It's there in black and white.

If you want to tell me that doesn't matter, then that's your opinion and you're welcome to it.

Looking at the top young guards in the league and their size, and the guys like Wall, Warren and White coming in... if I'm a GM then I'm trying to figure out a way to match up from that position.

You say that's not a concern. That's fine. Again. You're welcome to your opinion.

I'd like to hear what you think Douglas can develop into without just throwing out one line insults. You're not hurting my feelings. Sorry.

You might be hurting Bip's feelings though, because it's a cheap way to pump up your post count.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
SupremeCommander
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11/10/2009  2:04 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:You might be hurting Bip's feelings though, because it's a cheap way to pump up your post count.

That's sig worthy

...

But back on point, I'm unsure if TD has the passing/court vision to be a quality starting PG in the league. I don't worry about his physical gifts though because I think he has a stellar combination of physical gifts: height/wingspan/speed/strength. I'm more concerned about how all the physical stuff interacts than whether or not you can check wingspan box

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
fishmike
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11/10/2009  2:05 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:
fishmike wrote:allow me:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/

Douglas is just as LONG as the other guys. You owe me a shiney nickle
height in shoes/wingpan
Douglas 6'2/6'6
Derrick Rose 6'2.5/6'8
Chris Paul 6'1/6'4
Jameer Nelson 6'0/6'2

We could go on with this all day. Its stupid. Why argue facts when we can just make up our own?

Nice leaving out Rondo and Harris who are the crux of the debate.

Rondo: 6'10 wingspan
Harris: 6'7.5" wingspan
Evans: 7'3" wingspan
Westbrook: 6'7.75" wingspan

I'm not just making this stuff up. These guys have a size advantage on Douglas. That's not debatable. It's not career threatening or anything, I just think that its hard for him to overcome to the point of becoming an all-star.

He may become an all-star despite all that. That is debatable.

I didnt leave anyone out.. and I couldnt find Rondo. Can you quote the source of his 6'10 wingspan? Devan Harris? Westbrook? They have him beat by an inch. Wow.. thats a total of half an inch per arm. Is your arguement that that half inch gives them some kind of advantage that Douglas will need to overcome? Seriously dude.. its just silly at this point.

If you want to make it interesting go look up the lane agility and 3/4 court sprint and I will bet YOU a shiney nickel that Douglas is one of the quickest guards in the NBA

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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11/10/2009  2:08 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:You might be hurting Bip's feelings though, because it's a cheap way to pump up your post count.

That's sig worthy

...

But back on point, I'm unsure if TD has the passing/court vision to be a quality starting PG in the league. I don't worry about his physical gifts though because I think he has a stellar combination of physical gifts: height/wingspan/speed/strength. I'm more concerned about how all the physical stuff interacts than whether or not you can check wingspan box

Thats the best post of an otherwise somewhat retarded thread.

Nobody should be debating Douglas's physical gifts. Just look at his wingspan, bench press, and agility scores. His verticle leap isnt overly impressive but his bench press, wingspan and agility scores are excellent. I think he might have even tested as the fasted 3/4 sprint in the draft, or certainly among the top 3.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
JohnWallace44
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11/10/2009  2:11 PM
Panos wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:
fishmike wrote:allow me:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/

Douglas is just as LONG as the other guys. You owe me a shiney nickle
height in shoes/wingpan
Douglas 6'2/6'6
Derrick Rose 6'2.5/6'8
Chris Paul 6'1/6'4
Jameer Nelson 6'0/6'2

We could go on with this all day. Its stupid. Why argue facts when we can just make up our own?

Nice leaving out Rondo and Harris who are the crux of the debate.

Rondo: 6'10 wingspan
Harris: 6'7.5" wingspan
Evans: 7'3" wingspan
Westbrook: 6'7.75" wingspan

I'm not just making this stuff up. These guys have a size advantage on Douglas. That's not debatable. It's not career threatening or anything, I just think that its hard for him to overcome to the point of becoming an all-star.

He may become an all-star despite all that. That is debatable.


So the fact that there are 2 guys with more significant "length" in the league means what exactly?
Where is the correlation between length and PG skill here? Is Rondo the best PG in the league since he's the "longest"?

You want to look at some more guys?
JKidd?
Holiday has a 6'7" wingspan
Calderon is 6'3"

So just in the Atlantic, Douglas is the smallest starting PG.

I'm not comfortable with that if I'm Donnie. I see that you are. That's cool.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
cooch2584
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11/10/2009  2:11 PM
jw i have already told you what i think about TD 4 hours ago. Supreme,fish,etc... tell me im wrong and ill say im sorry. But by the way it sounds you all agree with me except jw. thanks in advance
Panos
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11/10/2009  2:13 PM
But fish, why does speed matter?
oohah
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11/10/2009  2:15 PM
But JohnWallace44, you have to admit that John Wallace was a pretty poor NBA player, and he had a pretty impressive wingspan!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
JohnWallace44
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11/10/2009  2:16 PM
Not trying to make this into the thread of the week, but telling me that Douglas isn't at a size advantage is just not factual.

In addition to that he can't finish at the rim. Is that an issue with any of these other guys?

If our PG can't consistently drive to the basket and get to the line and the other team's can... well that's going to put you in a deficit. Duhon is much worse from that standpoint, but when you're in a division where your guy is the smallest...

My opinion is just that it is a disadvantage. Not earthshaking.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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