Posted by nykshaknbake:

Wow, I can't beleive the position that those opposed to health care reform are racist is the default position and that it must be proven they are not racist.

Ok point by point. Bush has nothing to do with the current discussion. There's alot of anti-Bush sentiment here. I personally think he's the second worst prez in US history, but invoking him is irrelevant.

There are certainly people who are racist demonstrating against Obama. But to paint the whole movement or all conservatives strongly opposing Obama's plan as motivated by race is unfounded and a conjecture unsupported by any reason or facts. The vast majority of people concerned over health care are not upset that he's black. They're upset about the rush to pass this thing through without reading it and the preceived harm it will have on this country. By painting everything with the racist brush you cut off any legitimate debate. You may disagree but the fact is the overwhelming majority of people in this country disagree with you on this one topic, so I beleive the burden of proof is on you.

Additionally(picky points), I beleive he is from Hawaii and that he is not a Muslim, but last I checked Muslims and Kenyans don't constitute a race.

Posted by sebstar:

Thanks Bonn for those words * daps *

To Shake, man at some point stuff has to add up for your position to have any credibility.

At best this teabagger movement is a collective pandering to an ill-conceived confirmation bias by channeling some radical right pundit's agenda.

Bushs inherited surplus almost immediately turned into a deficit and ballooned from 2001 up to 2006. 9/11 happened under Bush’s watch. Our freedoms were compromised through Patriot Acts, Wiretapping, illegal wars, Guantanomo Bay, color alerts...and the only thing we heard from these people was God Bless America and God Bless our President.

Now that Obama wants to use spending to fix America's infrastructure after inheriting dire economic straits, he’s called a dirty socialist when he is actually trying to keep capitalism afloat...okay, fine. No problem.

And concerning taxes, the top tax rate is consistent with the Reagan Administration.. So the 5% of the richest Americans will be taxed at the roughly the same rate as they were under their beloved demigod. It was Bush’s tax cuts geared to the rich that helped us to get into this mess.

Some of it is just democrat vs. republican posturing, I know. But that doesn’t explain the unchecked racism that has been upheld throughout ths mess. The fantasies from the 08 campaign have mushroomed , he’s from Kenya, he’s DIRTY MUSLIM!", the extreme racial imagery that has been omnipresent at these rallies. All of this has been encouraged within the party and has no basis in reality. And we know enough about history to know how deep racial fissures can be.

We can have a legitimate debate on health care; although we all know conservatives are stoking racial indignation specifically to avoid arguing anything of significance because they have no real solutions. But don’t ask me to put my head in the sand and avoid confronting the obvious racism that is emanating from the right-wing. Even if one disagrees with Obama, he's trying to provide HEALTH CARE for those who are left out. We cant have a more civilized discussion?

At no point in this thread has anyone said that EVERYONE who opposes Universal Health Care is racist nor that every Conservative is racist. However many of the leaders in the Republican Party are playing up this angle to garner more public support. This started with the Palin-freak show and has continued through most of Obama's Presidency. Some Republicans have been getting their based riled up knowing full well that there is a major racial overtone and they have done nothing to denounce racism among their base nor do they discourage it. That's why the Republicans need to be called out and outbursts.

Additionally(picky points), I beleive he is from Hawaii and that he is not a Muslim, but last I checked Muslims and Kenyans don't constitute a race.

I don't know what your point is here because at least to me the fact that his birthplace is even questioned is due to his race. If this was Bill Clinton and he was born under similar circumstances these questions would not be raised. Yes clearly there is prejudice here because apparently expressing hatred against Muslims is okay.

They're upset about the rush to pass this thing through without reading it and the preceived harm it will have on this country.

Are you really going to argue that the reason why you are against Universal Health Care is because it will be too difficult for our legislators to read over the bill in a timely fashion? This argument I never understood because it was used against the Stimulus Bill and to me that is not even worth debating. This is their job furthermore, they have a ton of assistants, interns, aides, etc who can do all this work and present a one page summary if need be.

I believe the opposition of the Health Care bill is motivated by three major factors: greed, Legislators who do not want the tap turned off on them by the Health Insurance Lobbies (this includes Democrats as well), another faction is motivated by sheer ignorance they don't quite understand the Health Care debate but they want "Gumbnit out their business", then there is the extremist that fiercely hates Obama they hate his skin color, what he stands for, and they feel that their country has been stolen from them, so thus they will not support any of his agenda even if it goes directly against their interests. This all is very unfortunate because as Sebstar said there is valuable debate to be had in this country about Health Care.

Additionally(picky points), I beleive he is from Hawaii and that he is not a Muslim, but last I checked Muslims and Kenyans don't constitute a race.

They're upset about the rush to pass this thing through without reading it and the preceived harm it will have on this country.[/quote]

The point is that they don't know it before wanting to vote to pass it. That's somewhat ridiculous, don't you think? DO you normally buy things without knowing what they are?

By classifying all opposition to healthcare reform as greedy bastards, racists or ignorant people you are shutting down any possible debate. It's ironic that you do so while claiming to that such debate is valuable. I think what you guys really want is to hear like minded voices and confirm what you already believe.

Are you really going to argue that the reason why you are against Universal Health Care is because it will be too difficult for our legislators to read over the bill in a timely fashion? This argument I never understood because it was used against the Stimulus Bill and to me that is not even worth debating. This is their job furthermore, they have a ton of assistants, interns, aides, etc who can do all this work and present a one page summary if need be.

I believe the opposition of the Health Care bill is motivated by three major factors: greed, Legislators who do not want the tap turned off on them by the Health Insurance Lobbies (this includes Democrats as well), another faction is motivated by sheer ignorance they don't quite understand the Health Care debate but they want "Gumbnit out their business", then there is the extremist that fiercely hates Obama they hate his skin color, what he stands for, and they feel that their country has been stolen from them, so thus they will not support any of his agenda even if it goes directly against their interests. This all is very unfortunate because as Sebstar said there is valuable debate to be had in this country about Health Care.
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Posted by bitty41:

First thing is first nyshakenbake we are going to have to teah you how to format your posts.

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by izybx:

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by izybx:

The outcry against Obamas healthcare is just as racist as it was when Clinton tried it

How do you explain the birther movement? All the Marxist, communist, socialist, hitler talk and accusing him of hating white people? The actual health care debate isnt even the issue it seems. LOL at you thinking all this right-wing hysteria isnt fueled by race.

[Edited by - sebstar on 09-19-2009 6:10 PM]

You dont seem to get out much and talk to normal people. Just because people dont agree with the President dont make them hysterical racists. I think its sad that you are unable to see that you cant disagree without being racist. It seems that the people who are the first to call someone a bigot and a racist are the most narrow minded of all.

Alright, I know this is going to sound like I'm being snappy but I am asking this in all seriousness. Do you understand english?