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Donnie - stop messing with the fanbase and FA's in general
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fishmike
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9/9/2009  4:52 PM
can we just agree to add Sessions to the list of Brigg's player that have set us back a decade by not signing?
Michael Redd
Rodney White
Abdur Rahim
Amare Stoudemire (hey, gotta be fair)
Andew Bynum
Marcus Williams
Anthony Randolph
Ramon Sessions

... and the band played on
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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kam77
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9/9/2009  4:54 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:



I would take a 20% chance at Lebron over watching Ramon Session 7 days a week and twice on Friday. But if you want to fill a roster up with guys that will lead us to 45 wins every year enjoy. I would rather suck and take a shot at something great.



We have cap space to sign Ramon Sessions for 4 yrs 16mm AND sign Lebron to a maximum contract--add it up please so this incessant redundancy will stop. Not trying to break cahones but when you post something atleast bring the right math to the table

Why not sign LBJ and use the rest to pay DLEE.
You're choosing Sessions over Lee.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
cooch2584
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9/9/2009  5:22 PM
Fish I like your thinking.Just throwing this out there WHO SHOULD WE HAVE SIGNED THIS SUMMER SO OUR CAP SPACE IS INTACT FOR 2010/2011?? TALK TO ME!!
BRIGGS
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9/9/2009  5:55 PM
Posted by fishmike:

can we just agree to add Sessions to the list of Brigg's player that have set us back a decade by not signing?
Michael Redd
Rodney White
Abdur Rahim
Amare Stoudemire (hey, gotta be fair)
Andew Bynum
Marcus Williams
Anthony Randolph
Ramon Sessions

... and the band played on

I hate to say this fishmike but that team would put a ripping on the knicks and Im sure Knicks fans would be much happier! I also identified alot of really good players well before certain drafts like Chris Bosh Kaman[he wasnt even on mock drafts!] Wade months before that particular draft we took Sweetney[who i thought was our consolation prize but was a headcase] I made a few bad calls but my man saying we should draft Mike Redd should give anyone a clue about my personal basketball IQ.[no one and their mothers even knew who he was]
hey think I said pick up Anthony Morrow last year and we picked up Anthony roberson.
RIP Crushalot😞
Marv
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9/9/2009  5:57 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by fishmike:

can we just agree to add Sessions to the list of Brigg's player that have set us back a decade by not signing?
Michael Redd
Rodney White
Abdur Rahim
Amare Stoudemire (hey, gotta be fair)
Andew Bynum
Marcus Williams
Anthony Randolph
Ramon Sessions

... and the band played on

I hate to say this fishmike but that team would put a ripping on the knicks and Im sure Knicks fans would be much happier! I also identified alot of really good players well before certain drafts like Chris Bosh Kaman[he wasnt even on mock drafts!] Wade months before that particular draft we took Sweetney[who i thought was our consolation prize but was a headcase] I made a few bad calls but my man saying we should draft Mike Redd should give anyone a clue about my personal basketball IQ.[no one and their mothers even knew who he was]
hey think I said pick up Anthony Morrow last year and we picked up Anthony roberson.

my mother was all over michael redd.
BigSm00th
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9/9/2009  6:09 PM
what about kostas koufas and bj mullens as bigs? briggs i've been a fan of your picks from years -- sometimes you're on the money, other times you whiff badly, either way its as entertaining as

the dwade pick i remember as probably ur best. you were all over anthony randolph & i think he could be a stud. i think you may be beliving the hype a bit too much w/ sessions.

i still think bynum is improving, he will have a big year.
#Knickstaps
BRIGGS
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9/9/2009  6:16 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

? briggs i've been a fan of your picks from years -- sometimes you're on the money, other times you whiff badly, either way its as entertaining as

the dwade pick i remember as probably ur best. you were all over anthony randolph & i think he could be a stud. i think you may be beliving the hype a bit too much w/ sessions.[I dont believe the hype on Sessions Ive seen him play and I know he was a player we shouldve signed for the money!!!!]

i still think bynum is improving, he will have a big year.
what about kostas koufas and bj mullens as bigs?? let them play a season or two--I will lock that both of these guys will be good NBA players LOCK

I thought last years draft was great--our chance to get a 5 and we didnt do it--we were chasing???? Mario Chalmers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 Do you think we couldve swapped David Lee at that point for a pick late enough to get Javale Mcgee or Deandre Jordan since we needed a shotblocker--no b alls by the new guys!!!! YES--no doubt about it! We didnt use Lee's value.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 09-09-2009 6:19 PM]
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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9/9/2009  6:21 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by fishmike:

can we just agree to add Sessions to the list of Brigg's player that have set us back a decade by not signing?
Michael Redd
Rodney White
Abdur Rahim
Amare Stoudemire (hey, gotta be fair)
Andew Bynum
Marcus Williams
Anthony Randolph
Ramon Sessions

... and the band played on

I hate to say this fishmike but that team would put a ripping on the knicks and Im sure Knicks fans would be much happier! I also identified alot of really good players well before certain drafts like Chris Bosh Kaman[he wasnt even on mock drafts!] Wade months before that particular draft we took Sweetney[who i thought was our consolation prize but was a headcase] I made a few bad calls but my man saying we should draft Mike Redd should give anyone a clue about my personal basketball IQ.[no one and their mothers even knew who he was]
hey think I said pick up Anthony Morrow last year and we picked up Anthony roberson.
actually you wanted to trade for Redd, not draft him.

I will be totally honest with you. Over the years few have brought better discussions here than you, because you identify players that arent on other's radar. You have nailed some and totally whiffed on others. Obviously some of your more eccentric behaviors have been overlooked because you have started some spirited discussions, and thats good for the board.

However you do not know more about BB than every person that posts here. You are not the only one who can identify talent, NBA, college or otherwise, and you often assume thus.

Your total fixation on one player and inability to let go of that player gets old and fast and honestly it takes away from the other good stuff. I mean there was a Rahim thread every day one summer. There is a Sessions thread 2x a day here. We get it. Its stupid.

Anyway I think you should take a break and a deep breath... but first search for "Ramon" here and let me know if you find any highlights
http://www.redtube.com
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
cooch2584
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9/9/2009  6:49 PM
so no one wants to answer my question??
Marv
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9/9/2009  6:55 PM
briggs seriously - and I mean SERIOUSLY - undervalued jerome james.
Bonn1997
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9/9/2009  7:19 PM
This is one rare instance where I agree with Briggs. You can't ignore Sessions' PER and how many things he does well on the court. I really don't think it would be hard to move Jared if we threw in some sweetener. Ridnour's PER in one season came a little close to Sessions' last year (although it was still almost 2 pts better) like Martin pointed out. But that was an outlier year even relative to his career up to that point. Sessions' PER was pretty good and comparable in both his NBA seasons. All that said, I'm not gonna post a dozen messages in each of a dozen threads on this topic!
JohnWallace44
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9/9/2009  7:23 PM
Posted by cooch2584:

JWall,
Let me get this straight,you said you would like sessions for 4 mil instead of joe johnson for 15?? There you go again comparing apples and oranges. Joe johnson is a proven top tier player and will help more than hurt a team.Sessions is an unproven talent and we wouldnt know what he gives us.How can you compare the 2?? Seems to me you got your Knicks cap on a bit too tight. Oh wait your the nets fan that wants us to trade good young players and their contracts for washed up has beens and their bloated contracts just to win this yr.

Cooch - I didn't say that, but I should have. Have you seen Joe Johnson play lately? He makes Baron Davis look too unselfish. He wins, but you won't win more than the Hawks have with him doing his ball holding act. Not sure if you've been paying attention to my posts whatsoever... when have I talked about trading for older players?

Nobody can say for sure what Sessions would be. I can say for sure that the way that Donnie handled it was completely unprofessional. There are a dozen people who post on this board who knew the cap wouldn't handle multiple Max guys in 2010 with the economy the way it is from the moment the Winter trade deadline passed. Now Donnie has to wait for an August memo from Stern to figure out that he has to stop bidding for FA's? That was strange and worrisome.

So, what then? If Hill had accepted our offer would we be in panic mode, or was that whole thing just BS?

Its really just annoying to watch these bozos operate. They won't get my money. Why would anyone buy a ticket to see the New York Placeholders?

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Marv
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9/9/2009  7:25 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by cooch2584:

JWall,
Let me get this straight,you said you would like sessions for 4 mil instead of joe johnson for 15?? There you go again comparing apples and oranges. Joe johnson is a proven top tier player and will help more than hurt a team.Sessions is an unproven talent and we wouldnt know what he gives us.How can you compare the 2?? Seems to me you got your Knicks cap on a bit too tight. Oh wait your the nets fan that wants us to trade good young players and their contracts for washed up has beens and their bloated contracts just to win this yr.

Cooch - I didn't say that, but I should have. Have you seen Joe Johnson play lately? He makes Baron Davis look too unselfish. He wins, but you won't win more than the Hawks have with him doing his ball holding act. Not sure if you've been paying attention to my posts whatsoever... when have I talked about trading for older players?

Nobody can say for sure what Sessions would be. I can say for sure that the way that Donnie handled it was completely unprofessional. There are a dozen people who post on this board who knew the cap wouldn't handle multiple Max guys in 2010 with the economy the way it is from the moment the Winter trade deadline passed. Now Donnie has to wait for an August memo from Stern to figure out that he has to stop bidding for FA's? That was strange and worrisome.

So, what then? If Hill had accepted our offer would we be in panic mode, or was that whole thing just BS?

Its really just annoying to watch these bozos operate. They won't get my money. Why would anyone buy a ticket to see the New York Placeholders?

I watch joe johnson and the problem isn't that he's selfish - it's that he's cowardly. the guy has zero crunch time nuts.
JohnWallace44
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9/9/2009  7:58 PM
Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:

I don't get what the big move is that Donnie missed out on?

Answer: Not packaging Nate and Jeffries together for Sacto was a massive mistake.
DW is not exactly Sam Presti but someone - anyone, please tell me what is the big move that we should have made this summer that we didn't?

And expand..

Ex:

We sign Sessions for 4 seasons this summer. We lock up DLee for 4 years.

Next year we..... ?

Let's not even get into Randolph, but if we drafted Bayless instead of Gallo then we wouldn't have had to get Duhon, and then you've got a nice young PG running the team this year. Not exactly like Bayless was a stretch at the time.

Trading Balkman for nothing seemed dumb for a team that needs defenders. Just buy out Rose if you need the roster spot.

If we had waited until the trade deadline to move ZBo and Crawford maybe you get more value for them, maybe less, but the team wouldn't have fallen apart. The Clips and GS both proved that they could be moved later.

Walsh admitted that the Hughes trade was a mistake himself, so I don't have to talk about that one.

Not trading Jeffries at just about any cost at last year's deadline was pretty much the death knell for the 2010 plan to me. Not having the foresight based on the already crashing economy was an abject failure in my opinion.

Also should have traded the 2009 expirings for 2010 expirings given the economy in order to gain some sort of assets... anything.

Jordan Hill looked god awful in the Summer League. That's the most I've seen of him, but I don't get the resistance to Derozan, Jennings and Holiday. Imagine that our wings at this point are Bayless, Derozan and Chandler... better than where we are today? I think so.

We could have used the Lakers pick to get a defensive sub like Sam Young, or Dujan Summers if we had already had the young backcourt in place.

OK, so let's say that you go into the season with these young players on the roster;
- Bayless
- Derozan
- Sam Young
- Balkman
- Chandler

instead of;
- Gallo
- Chandler
- Hill
- Douglas

The former is much more promising to me. You might be able to make a run at the playoffs with that team.

That's just a couple of things that I think have been avoidable mistakes.




Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
nixluva
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9/9/2009  9:48 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:


OK, so let's say that you go into the season with these young players on the roster;
- Bayless
- Derozan
- Sam Young
- Balkman
- Chandler

instead of;
- Gallo
- Chandler
- Hill
- Douglas

The former is much more promising to me. You might be able to make a run at the playoffs with that team.

That's just a couple of things that I think have been avoidable mistakes.

Ah HELL NO! The things you bring up aren't that serious. EVERY GM makes a few bad calls. Walsh has avoided doing any permanent damage. As for the players you suggest we could have gotten. Bayless is a bigger Nate Robinson! Derozan is what...? Gallo is a gifted big with sniper shooting skills, handle, Passing and even defense! Hill is a young big that already has some impressive offensive skills. He's a bit raw, but should be perfect in our system. Don't get all worried about SL when it comes to Hill. Hill's skills and athletic ability fit perfectly in our system. I'm hopeful that Douglas can provide us with a solid backup PG at the least. I'm much more comfortable with what we'll be getting from the guys we have than the ones you suggested. The guys we have actually all have a good chance to be able to play defense for us.
Panos
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9/9/2009  10:56 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by JohnWallace44:


OK, so let's say that you go into the season with these young players on the roster;
- Bayless
- Derozan
- Sam Young
- Balkman
- Chandler

instead of;
- Gallo
- Chandler
- Hill
- Douglas

The former is much more promising to me. You might be able to make a run at the playoffs with that team.

That's just a couple of things that I think have been avoidable mistakes.

Ah HELL NO! The things you bring up aren't that serious. EVERY GM makes a few bad calls. Walsh has avoided doing any permanent damage. As for the players you suggest we could have gotten. Bayless is a bigger Nate Robinson! Derozan is what...? Gallo is a gifted big with sniper shooting skills, handle, Passing and even defense! Hill is a young big that already has some impressive offensive skills. He's a bit raw, but should be perfect in our system. Don't get all worried about SL when it comes to Hill. Hill's skills and athletic ability fit perfectly in our system. I'm hopeful that Douglas can provide us with a solid backup PG at the least. I'm much more comfortable with what we'll be getting from the guys we have than the ones you suggested. The guys we have actually all have a good chance to be able to play defense for us.


nix, have you ever, ever said anything negative about the knicks?
do you take some kind of special supplements for that kind of positive attitude? I could use some sometimes.
JohnWallace44
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9/9/2009  11:12 PM
Really? That gets a "Hell No!"?

Bayless is a bigger Nate? Hmmm... a bigger Nate would be one of the best players in the league. Size is his only flaw really.

The point of Derozan is to have a size advantage a la Orlando last year. Not sure why you're touting the defensive ability of Hill and Gallo. From what I've seen, you won't be able to put them on the floor at the same time, especially not with Lee.

Hill looks like Wilcox to me. Not sure why we had to draft him if we already had him.

I'm sure we won't convince eachother. I just think this GM has drafted badly even if you remove the 2010 plan, and I don't like the 2010 plan to begin with. Reminds me of the days when we were trying to steal Jordan instead of focusing on our own team. Pretty sad that we can't do it on our own.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
BigSm00th
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9/9/2009  11:30 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by cooch2584:

JWall,
Let me get this straight,you said you would like sessions for 4 mil instead of joe johnson for 15?? There you go again comparing apples and oranges. Joe johnson is a proven top tier player and will help more than hurt a team.Sessions is an unproven talent and we wouldnt know what he gives us.How can you compare the 2?? Seems to me you got your Knicks cap on a bit too tight. Oh wait your the nets fan that wants us to trade good young players and their contracts for washed up has beens and their bloated contracts just to win this yr.

Cooch - I didn't say that, but I should have. Have you seen Joe Johnson play lately? He makes Baron Davis look too unselfish. He wins, but you won't win more than the Hawks have with him doing his ball holding act. Not sure if you've been paying attention to my posts whatsoever... when have I talked about trading for older players?

Nobody can say for sure what Sessions would be. I can say for sure that the way that Donnie handled it was completely unprofessional. There are a dozen people who post on this board who knew the cap wouldn't handle multiple Max guys in 2010 with the economy the way it is from the moment the Winter trade deadline passed. Now Donnie has to wait for an August memo from Stern to figure out that he has to stop bidding for FA's? That was strange and worrisome.

So, what then? If Hill had accepted our offer would we be in panic mode, or was that whole thing just BS?

Its really just annoying to watch these bozos operate. They won't get my money. Why would anyone buy a ticket to see the New York Placeholders?

I watch joe johnson and the problem isn't that he's selfish - it's that he's cowardly. the guy has zero crunch time nuts.



Silent Joe Johnson. I've always been a fan. You never hear about the guy but I think he's definitely good enough to be a top 3-4 guy on a championship team. is he a pippen to lebron? possibly.
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martin
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9/9/2009  11:50 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Martin, I feel like I have described it in detail, but here goes again...

From the top...
- Signing of MikeD - fine, would have tried to do the same
- 2008 Draft - At the time, I was for Randolph or Bayless, as was most everyone on here
- Craw/Randolph trades - I would have let the roster roll until the trade deadline - if we were in a position to make the playoffs then I would have traded expirings for 2010 or 2011 expirings to gain assets. If we were out of it, then I would have seen what you can get for any of them at that point. In addition, if we were out of it I would have put Nate and Lee into deals to help clear the books.
- 2009 draft - we would have been drafting later, so I probably would have gone for someone like Johnson, and if the Lakers pick were available I would go with Beaubois.
- Going into 2009 - I like the Darko trade. I would use our market advantage to take on 2010 salary and look to 2011 and beyond for salary flexibility. "Flexibility," meaning room to sign one major player each year, or resign your own guys.

A John Wallace GM'ed 2009 roster could have looked like

PG: Bayless (Randolph is just to easy to beat Donnie up on)
SG: The Mayor (assume Craw was traded like GS did to ATL)
SF: James Johnson
PF: ZBo,
C: Darko, Jeffries

Bench: Beaubois, Mardy Collins, Balkman

Assuming that you couldn't pull off anything decent, you'd have a roster like that.

First off, that roster is more balanced. You have a clear PG, SG, SF, PF, C. Who is what on our team?

I don't think it would take much to have bettered what Donnie has done. Maybe its just me. As a fan, I would rather be competitive. Donnie cut the team apart twice last season. Its really hard to put a value on at least having a shot year to year. Giving up multiple years for something way down the road is pretty tough to swallow. The biggest Knicks story this year will be that nobody is showing up to the games. Good luck selling the team when there's no fans in the building Dolans.

JW, These are your statements:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

I get it Donnie. The Knicks aren't even attempting to compete this year.

He's had opportunities to upgrade the roster.

Maximize on the league's desperation for 2010 cap space and grab talent and 2011 cap space instead.

And after I have asked you to flesh out a plan, you have come up with this 2009-2010 lineup:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

A John Wallace GM'ed 2009 roster could have looked like

PG: Bayless (Randolph is just to easy to beat Donnie up on)
SG: The Mayor (assume Craw was traded like GS did to ATL)
SF: James Johnson
PF: ZBo,
C: Darko, Jeffries

Bench: Beaubois, Mardy Collins, Balkman

Interestingly, the lineup for 2009-2010 will most likely be this:

PG: Duhon
SG: The Mayor
SF: Harrington
PF: Lee
C: Darko

PG: Duhon > Bayless
SG: Chandler
SF: Harrington >>>>>> James
PF: Lee same as Zbo but without the headaches
C: Darko

How did your plan make it such that it's competing any more than what we currently have? How does you plan maximize free agents by taking on 2010 salary and waiting until 2011?

Mostly all you are suggesting is what Isiah wanted to do: Add Zbo to the roster.

For what I can tell by your post, you are suggesting that we should have kept Zbo and drafted Bayless instead of Gallo. And you can't draft Beaubois with the Laker pick cause he was already gone.
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BigSm00th
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9/9/2009  11:50 PM
JohnWallace, you base your entire argument on complete assumptions:

a) the purported sacramento deal for jeffries/nate. given that you aren't privy to donnie walsh's personal email account, i doubt you know what is and isn't proposed. if we missed on that opportunity for cap room, who cares. jeffries isn't bad, its curry thats the worse contract. jeffries for $6 mil isn't terrible, at least he contributes something.
b) galinari, hill, douglas are all way too young to definitively conclude a debate regarding the draft and who went where. hill hasn't even played an nba game and you're writing the guy off.

quit being disgruntled, it is what it is. derozan is like 6'6', what size advantage does he bring that jordan hill doesnt, please explain that to me.
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