[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

ESPN: Sessions and T'wolves agree to offer sheet
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 5 of 7 « First‹ Previous 3  4  5  6  7 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
9/8/2009  2:34 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Sessions is better than Duhon. But he's middle of the road NBA talent. whoop de do

Hey fishmike which bucks message board have you been reading?

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=941903&start=960
RIP Crushalot😞
AUTOADVERT
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
9/8/2009  2:51 PM
can we let the sessions thing go? it's very clear that donnie did not make an offer for sessions because if he did we wouldn't have the cap space to sign a max deal next summer.

for all we know sessions is the next marcus banks. banks averaged 12ppg and 5apg heading into his first free agency, too. and d'antoni went gaga over him, too.
¿ △ ?
MS
Posts: 27061
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/28/2004
Member: #724
9/8/2009  3:07 PM
2008-2009
PTS-RBS-ASS
19pts-8rbs-7ass
16pts -10rbs-16ass
10pts -6rbs-8ass
12pts -4rbs-4ass
20pts -5rbs-11ass
19pts -4ass
27pts -4rbs-8ass
12pts -3rbs-4ass
17pts -9rbs-7ass
15pts -7rbs-17ass
44pts -5rbs-12ass
19pts -6rbsass
20pts -4rbs-7ass
16pts -3rbs-3ass
16pts -3rbs-8ass
21pts -7rbs-8ass
7pts -6rbs-8ass
18pts -4rbs-4ass
14pts -4rbs-6ass
22pts -8rbsass
18pts -7rbs-8ass
12pts -9ass

That's with starter minutes last year, 34 minutes and above. I think people are seriously underestimating this kid. Go down the list of starting NBA point guards and see if anyone of them are playing for 4 million. This kid is much more athletic than duhon and would have got easy buckets for everyone on the team. The point is to boast players values. This contract wasn't going to hurt us. We are trying to sign one player and that's Lebron. Wade is not coming here and every other good wing is going to be signed.

If we needed a point guard we should have just drafted Jennings, however have a 23 year old with a year under his belt would have been a very nice asset.

All Duhon does is drive the lane up fake and then kick to the baseline shooter. We needed someone that could get the the rim and really create. Tony Douglas is not the answer. Sessions can really play he isn't a flash in the pants and would actually have an offense and a coach that tailor to him.
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
9/8/2009  3:20 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by fishmike:

Sessions is better than Duhon. But he's middle of the road NBA talent. whoop de do

Hey fishmike which bucks message board have you been reading?

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=941903&start=960


Great post briggs... I guess the difference is I actually took the time to read what the Bucks fans said:
Doesn't make any sense to match this offer......you are trying to get out from long term deals, you draft what is supposed to be your franchise PG

how in the hell could you justify not trading Sessions and Charlie V at the deadline? Even for second round picks?

I don't think Sessions is worth this contract. 4 yrs is too long of a contract. Too much risk.

I'd like to see Sessions retained at this price, or signed and dealt now that his price point is set. If you think Sessions would be a good 3rd guard, this is a good price.

I think this is a good angle. Two years ago we talked a lot about Mo being that "bench combo guard" who can do it all.

Ramon can fill that role. Many times sixth-men need to make things happen. Ramon can enter games and try driving to the hole to create some offense. And he's obviously a good ball-handler. We saw last year that many times in the fourth quarter he did a respectable job at SG.

Considering that we were even contemplating Mo in that role at 6/$52, I think Sessions can do just as good a job of filling it but at the 4/$16mm pricetag.

Thats just from the first page...

There are three groups of people there:
1) the 30% that said good bye and have a nice life
2) the group that said paying him that much to be a 3rd guard is good value so keep him
3) the group that are just pissed he's going for nothing and Bucks didnt get a pick for him at the deadline

Oh wait... lets add a new group for Briggs

4) the one guy that thinks he's the starter of a lifetime and the next Tony Parker.

Since the fans that watch him play every day think we would make a good 3rd or 4th guard behind a rookie (Jennings), Michael Redd (constantly broken) and or Ridnour (just sucks) I am quiet OK with the Knicks not signing him.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
MS
Posts: 27061
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/28/2004
Member: #724
9/8/2009  4:42 PM
Billups did average 12.5pts 5.5ass on 42% from the field his last year in Minnesota before Dumars came in. Very little was made about him and the signing. Billups was a little more highly touted coming out of school.

BigSm00th
Posts: 24504
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/9/2001
Member: #178
USA
9/8/2009  5:04 PM
i was big on the knicks signing sessions, i watched him several times last yr and had him on my fantasy squad, he's a stud. plus he has a good repetoire with both d'antoni brothers. i think he's certainly coachable and has the talent to be an all-star. that being said, the cap shrunk and the knicks couldn't give him more than a 1 yr deal. it is unfortunate, but damn, we should've just drafted brandon jennings!
#Knickstaps
kam77
Posts: 27664
Alba Posts: 25
Joined: 3/17/2004
Member: #634
9/8/2009  6:15 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

we should've just drafted brandon jennings!

Yup.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Markji
Posts: 22753
Alba Posts: -4
Joined: 9/14/2007
Member: #1673
USA
9/8/2009  6:38 PM
Duhon has a much better shot than Sessions..... especially at 3pt range. Sessions can't shoot from that far out and Duhon lead the team with 39%. 3pt shooting is critical in MDA offense.

Toney Douglas, by the end of this year will be as good as, or better than Sessions so Sessions becomes redundant. We don't need to take up 2010 cap space with him.

What this all boils down to is that we don't have a top PG, but for 2009, this is fine. Come 2010, we can be active again. (unless , of course, Rubio comes back into play beforehand.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
9/8/2009  8:11 PM

-->Toney Douglas, by the end of this year will be as good as, or better than Sessions so Sessions becomes redundant. We don't need to take up 2010 cap space with him.


Im sorry but he isnt close. I could tell right away from watching him--he is quick but he is limited . Sessions could average 17-10-5 here. TD will be lucky to see PT.
RIP Crushalot😞
Markji
Posts: 22753
Alba Posts: -4
Joined: 9/14/2007
Member: #1673
USA
9/8/2009  8:58 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:


-->Toney Douglas, by the end of this year will be as good as, or better than Sessions so Sessions becomes redundant. We don't need to take up 2010 cap space with him.


Im sorry but he isnt close. I could tell right away from watching him--he is quick but he is limited . Sessions could average 17-10-5 here. TD will be lucky to see PT.
Sessions, in his rookie year played only 17 games averaging 26 min. 8.1ppg. He wasn't an instant success. I think Douglas will outperform that. But, we will find out who is better at the end of the season.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
EnySpree
Posts: 44919
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397
9/9/2009  2:10 AM
I agree with Briggs just so he doesn't feel alone...

I'm just annoyed we gotta see Duhon start again. 35ft 3pters and "saw it yesterday" pick and roll passes....oh yeah the drive all the way to the basket, pass up a lay-up to pass out to Jared Jefferies for 3....

Nate is better than all these guys...wish fans, media, and coaches would stop thinking of him as "more of a shooting guard" for christsakes....guy is 5'8"...He's a point guard like it or not. They should just crown him the point guard, and make Duhon back him up.Force Nate to be the man at PG....all the bitching would cease.

Wanna compare? Nate is faster than Tony Parker, he can pass just as well any pg out there. He also can score with any of them and that is a muthaflippin fact of life.

Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC https://instagram.com/diehardknickspodcast
GKFv2
Posts: 26752
Alba Posts: 114
Joined: 1/16/2007
Member: #1259
USA
9/9/2009  2:15 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

I agree with Briggs just so he doesn't feel alone...

I'm just annoyed we gotta see Duhon start again. 35ft 3pters and "saw it yesterday" pick and roll passes....oh yeah the drive all the way to the basket, pass up a lay-up to pass out to Jared Jefferies for 3....

Nate is better than all these guys...wish fans, media, and coaches would stop thinking of him as "more of a shooting guard" for christsakes....guy is 5'8"...He's a point guard like it or not. They should just crown him the point guard, and make Duhon back him up.Force Nate to be the man at PG....all the bitching would cease.

Wanna compare? Nate is faster than Tony Parker, he can pass just as well any pg out there. He also can score with any of them and that is a muthaflippin fact of life.

PG has nothing to do with height. Nate Robinson does not play within a team or know how to run an offense. He's a scorer off the bench at best. Like him or not, Duhon is the best we got. Yeah, he's a backup who happens to be starting but we all knew this when we signed him last year. He's a temporary solution. Let's see if Douglas does anything this year. If he shows signs of being a point guard, he may get his chance next year when Duhon hits the road, If not, we'll sign someone else, probably a veteran.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
RemBee76
Posts: 20755
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #89
USA
9/9/2009  6:58 AM
Seems like two people in the world think Sessions is great. You and GM of the Wolves.

Well, and Mike D'Antoni who was reportedly pushing for him hard. Oh, and Dan too, who coached him in AAU ball.

The only thing that makes Sessions a "2nd Round Talent" is that he happened to be picked in the second round. In essentially his first year in the league his PER at point was 20.6 which would have ranked him 23rd in the league, and would have toped, by far, any of this season's incoming rookies (Kevin Love was at the top with 18.39). Thats just one measure, but its an interesting one that points to a guy who is immensely productive in the NBA at only 23 years of age. There are some real negatives to his game, but also a great deal of potential for improvement.

We can look at it and say acquiring him at a contract that would have been paying him something around 3.5 million per in 2010 would jeopardize our ability to sign a top FA next year. Its true. But the conundrum we are in is that losing like we did last year will jeopardize that just as much. At roughly the price of what we would have paid next seasons first round pick (if we had one) Sessions would have added to our anemic young core, and especially since his stats would have seen a bump under Coach D, he would have been seen as a positive for this team's future. Instead, we have Duhon, one of 7 guys on this team playing under a one-year contract. How is that attractive to a FA?

More than anything, Sessions represented something we sorely need...a PG for our PG coach to actually coach. With Duhon leaving, no draft pick next year, no MLE, and most of our money going to our BIG FA (assuming we get him) I have to wonder now where that player is going to come from.

Toney Douglas? Anyone who has confidence that he will be "as good as, or better than Sessions" was probably making similar proclamations about Mardy Collins and has never seen Ramon Sessions play.

But here's to hoping.





Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
Marv
Posts: 35540
Alba Posts: 69
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #315
9/9/2009  7:19 AM
^ now THAT was the most convincing argument to date.
coolbeans
Posts: 20520
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/29/2009
Member: #2875
Niue
9/9/2009  7:34 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

I agree with Briggs just so he doesn't feel alone...

I'm just annoyed we gotta see Duhon start again. 35ft 3pters and "saw it yesterday" pick and roll passes....oh yeah the drive all the way to the basket, pass up a lay-up to pass out to Jared Jefferies for 3....

Nate is better than all these guys...wish fans, media, and coaches would stop thinking of him as "more of a shooting guard" for christsakes....guy is 5'8"...He's a point guard like it or not. They should just crown him the point guard, and make Duhon back him up.Force Nate to be the man at PG....all the bitching would cease.

Wanna compare? Nate is faster than Tony Parker, he can pass just as well any pg out there. He also can score with any of them and that is a muthaflippin fact of life.

if briggs is saying start nate at point this season then i will join you enyspree in a threeway bond of agreement. hell start darko too nothing to lose everything to gain. every knicks fan in the know has already sold their soul to satan betting on 2010. if darko can play big minutes this season the coaches will get a good look on how he fits into 2010.
coolbeans@in.com
Markji
Posts: 22753
Alba Posts: -4
Joined: 9/14/2007
Member: #1673
USA
9/9/2009  8:32 AM
Toney Douglas? Anyone who has confidence that he will be "as good as, or better than Sessions" was probably making similar proclamations about Mardy Collins and has never seen Ramon Sessions play.
That is quite wrong!

Comparing Sessions to Toney Douglas....will have to see how Douglas does. Sessions has obviously improved his game since college. But if you compare Toney Douglas's college game to that of Sessions, Douglas was a far superior college player both offensively and defensively. Plus Douglas is tremendously quick and has excellent basketball sense. So to say Douglas will be better than Sessions after Douglas has 1 year's experience under his belt, I think is a fair evaluation.
Well, and Mike D'Antoni who was reportedly pushing for him hard. Oh, and Dan too, who coached him in AAU ball.
Coaches like the short term fix. "What can u do for me now!" Sessions has established himself as a descent PG. And we need a PG. Therefore MDA wants him. But this reasoning supports the value of having 2 people in charge....a GM and a coach. The GM has the long-term view and Donnie doesn't see Sessions as the long-term answer, not worth taking up cap space in 2010.

And again, Sessions can't shoot from outside, especially terrible at 3 pt range. The Knicks, under MDA took the most 3 pt shots of any team in the league and were only 19th out of 30 in % made. In MDA's system, a guard has to be able to shoot the 3. Sessions can't. I am very aware of what Sessions can do. He destroyed the Knicks....drove past our guards at will last year. And I would be more for him if it didn't hurt our cap. But signing him would have, so we didn't.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
9/9/2009  9:06 AM
Posted by RemBee76:

[quote]Seems like two people in the world think Sessions is great. You and GM of the Wolves.

Well, and Mike D'Antoni who was reportedly pushing for him hard. Oh, and Dan too, who coached him in AAU ball.

The only thing that makes Sessions a "2nd Round Talent" is that he happened to be picked in the second round. In essentially his first year in the league his PER at point was 20.6 which would have ranked him 23rd in the league, and would have toped, by far, any of this season's incoming rookies (Kevin Love was at the top with 18.39). Thats just one measure, but its an interesting one that points to a guy who is immensely productive in the NBA at only 23 years of age. There are some real negatives to his game, but also a great deal of potential for improvement.

We can look at it and say acquiring him at a contract that would have been paying him something around 3.5 million per in 2010 would jeopardize our ability to sign a top FA next year. Its true. But the conundrum we are in is that losing like we did last year will jeopardize that just as much. At roughly the price of what we would have paid next seasons first round pick (if we had one) Sessions would have added to our anemic young core, and especially since his stats would have seen a bump under Coach D, he would have been seen as a positive for this team's future. Instead, we have Duhon, one of 7 guys on this team playing under a one-year contract. How is that attractive to a FA?

More than anything, Sessions represented something we sorely need...a PG for our PG coach to actually coach. With Duhon leaving, no draft pick next year, no MLE, and most of our money going to our BIG FA (assuming we get him) I have to wonder now where that player is going to come from.

Toney Douglas? Anyone who has confidence that he will be "as good as, or better than Sessions" was probably making similar proclamations about Mardy Collins and has never seen Ramon Sessions play.

But here's to hoping.






Wow a post that made sense. How few people have actually watched Ramon Sessions play. My goodness I didn't even have him on my radar because I didn't think he was available. The ONLY reason why he was available was an eery lack of spending by NBA teams due to the economy. Sorry but guys like David Lee and Ramon Sessions will usually get paid. Sessions is an MLE player who had to take what was amount to a 4 pick in the draft. It sounds like you actually watched Ramon play and understand what I'm saying[compared to some posters who are spewing drivel about what some Milwaukee fans said about him on a message board]--this was a HUGE blunder. OK maybe it tightens up FA dollar next year--but lets be real--we couldve managed around it. He REALLY couldve helped this team and HEDGED against many players leaving at a reasonable $$$. We ARE going to lose Duhnon and Nate[most likely] and guess what--they arent Sessions anyway! Who made this decision--I dont think it was Mike D. Who the F is playing PG next year--we couldve had a 23 YO 6-3 200 pound one set for 3-4 years. What were they thinking????
RIP Crushalot😞
RemBee76
Posts: 20755
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #89
USA
9/9/2009  9:26 AM
Posted by Markji:
Toney Douglas? Anyone who has confidence that he will be "as good as, or better than Sessions" was probably making similar proclamations about Mardy Collins and has never seen Ramon Sessions play.
That is quite wrong!

Comparing Sessions to Toney Douglas....will have to see how Douglas does. Sessions has obviously improved his game since college. But if you compare Toney Douglas's college game to that of Sessions, Douglas was a far superior college player both offensively and defensively. Plus Douglas is tremendously quick and has excellent basketball sense. So to say Douglas will be better than Sessions after Douglas has 1 year's experience under his belt, I think is a fair evaluation.

I don't share that view. I don't think Douglas will be capable of putting up 16-8 as a starter in this offense, as Sessions is, after one year in the league.

In time, maybe. Maybe. Though I think you would find precious few people who share your view that this is his ceiling. Unfortunately for scouts, college success doesn't often translate directly to the NBA.

And Ramon is a moving target. Toney Douglas is 22. Ramon Sessions is 23. If we are going to allow that Douglas has room to grow and establish himself in the NBA, any fair evaluation would also have to allow the same for Sessions.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
Markji
Posts: 22753
Alba Posts: -4
Joined: 9/14/2007
Member: #1673
USA
9/9/2009  9:55 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Markji:
Toney Douglas? Anyone who has confidence that he will be "as good as, or better than Sessions" was probably making similar proclamations about Mardy Collins and has never seen Ramon Sessions play.
That is quite wrong!

Comparing Sessions to Toney Douglas....will have to see how Douglas does. Sessions has obviously improved his game since college. But if you compare Toney Douglas's college game to that of Sessions, Douglas was a far superior college player both offensively and defensively. Plus Douglas is tremendously quick and has excellent basketball sense. So to say Douglas will be better than Sessions after Douglas has 1 year's experience under his belt, I think is a fair evaluation.

I don't share that view. I don't think Douglas will be capable of putting up 16-8 as a starter in this offense, as Sessions is, after one year in the league.

In time, maybe. Maybe. Though I think you would find precious few people who share your view that this is his ceiling. Unfortunately for scouts, college success doesn't often translate directly to the NBA.

And Ramon is a moving target. Toney Douglas is 22. Ramon Sessions is 23. If we are going to allow that Douglas has room to grow and establish himself in the NBA, any fair evaluation would also have to allow the same for Sessions.
My "quite wrong" comment was about believing in Mardy! I never did. I should have separated that out.
If we are going to allow that Douglas has room to grow and establish himself in the NBA, any fair evaluation would also have to allow the same for Sessions.
I agree with this. I don't think Sessions is a bad player. He is a good young point guard who can grow and I was for signing him originally. But not if it hurts our cap space for 2010 which it now does since the revised cap figures. By 2010, TD will have had a chance to prove himself. And I think TD's ceiling is higher because he has better tools and has shown to be a top caliber talent in college.
Unfortunately for scouts, college success doesn't often translate directly to the NBA.
Agree. Many college stars don't make it in the NBA. I am only projecting and giving my opinion. I am high on Douglas becoming a solid NBA player. We'll have to wait until April to find out.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
9/9/2009  10:06 AM
Briggs relax. I am sure Marcus Williams will be available anyway. Then we can get back that player that set us back 3 years.

Can you imagine if the cap does go down as warned and Walsh is unable to move JJ/Curry during the year, the offseason comes and we cant offer Lebron a max contract because we have $4mm tied up with Sessions? Hey at least the PG problem will be resolved.

Briggs.. your posts dont make sense because you totally ignore the reason Session or other guys were signed or added is because Walsh is keeping options open to aquire a star player to build AROUND. If you get Lebron who cares who your PG is?

If he doesnt come here you have a ton of cap space to trade/sign other guys or your bring your own back. Thats the hedge. Huge flexibility.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Page 5 of 7 « First‹ Previous 3  4  5  6  7 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
ESPN: Sessions and T'wolves agree to offer sheet
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy