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David Lee officially crying; Basically wants trade
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sebstar
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7/23/2009  8:36 PM
Posted by King1:

You claim Lee isnt worth anything but then you want a lot back in a trade. If you think he is garbage then trade him for garbage. He was your best player last year and you wont nine more games with him starting and being a vital part of the offense. If he plays for the Knicks next year you make the playoffs if he doesnt you win 25 games again.

I hate to pile on, because you seem to be under pressure from other posters but why are you so emotionally involved with David Lee? Its beyond abnormal if you arent connect to him in one form or another.

Lee is whining right now and people are calling him on it. Get over it.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
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GKFv2
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7/23/2009  8:37 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by King1:

You claim Lee isnt worth anything but then you want a lot back in a trade. If you think he is garbage then trade him for garbage. He was your best player last year and you wont nine more games with him starting and being a vital part of the offense. If he plays for the Knicks next year you make the playoffs if he doesnt you win 25 games again.

I hate to pile on, because you seem to be under pressure from other posters but why are you so emotionally involved with David Lee? Its beyond abnormal if you arent connect to him in one form or another.

Lee is whining right now and people are calling him on it. Get over it.

Apparently he fixed his car or something in Florida and met him...once.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
bitty41
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7/23/2009  8:37 PM
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by bitty41:

Knick fans are really fickle David Lee was among the so-called good guys in a crappy organization. Now that he's dared to even ask for money that might compromise 2010 FA he's a piece of dog poo.

What is amazing to me is how for many "fans" David Lee was always a piece of dog poo. Now those same people are just piling on.

I never loved Lee, always thought he was a good hustle 7th or 8th man on a winning team. This is nothing new.

But he's the best player on this team right now and tin men like Larry Hughes are making serious money so David Lee should what ask for less because that's the nice thing to do?

So we should pay him more because some fool decided to pay Larry Hughes. This is Isiah-style thinking.

No but you do show your appreciation for his work and play. That's what good organizations do anyway. King will tell that I am by no means David Lee fan but I think him and Nate are getting a raw deal.
sebstar
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7/23/2009  8:43 PM
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by King1:

You claim Lee isnt worth anything but then you want a lot back in a trade. If you think he is garbage then trade him for garbage. He was your best player last year and you wont nine more games with him starting and being a vital part of the offense. If he plays for the Knicks next year you make the playoffs if he doesnt you win 25 games again.

I hate to pile on, because you seem to be under pressure from other posters but why are you so emotionally involved with David Lee? Its beyond abnormal if you arent connect to him in one form or another.

Lee is whining right now and people are calling him on it. Get over it.

Apparently he fixed his car or something in Florida and met him...once.

lol...and here I was thinking that he wasnt connected with Lee. Obviously their relationship goes deep.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Nalod
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7/23/2009  8:43 PM
Seems like the only ones whining are fans like he is asking for your money.

The dude wants his chedder he is finding the market changed fast.

No big deal. Some were crying we should have given Lee the money already and the old man is asleep.

It plays the out the way it plays out........
sebstar
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7/23/2009  8:47 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by bitty41:

Knick fans are really fickle David Lee was among the so-called good guys in a crappy organization. Now that he's dared to even ask for money that might compromise 2010 FA he's a piece of dog poo.

What is amazing to me is how for many "fans" David Lee was always a piece of dog poo. Now those same people are just piling on.

I never loved Lee, always thought he was a good hustle 7th or 8th man on a winning team. This is nothing new.

But he's the best player on this team right now and tin men like Larry Hughes are making serious money so David Lee should what ask for less because that's the nice thing to do?

So we should pay him more because some fool decided to pay Larry Hughes. This is Isiah-style thinking.

No but you do show your appreciation for his work and play. That's what good organizations do anyway. King will tell that I am by no means David Lee fan but I think him and Nate are getting a raw deal.

If there were no salary cap, trust I'd be right there with you. But there is one, and this is a business. Knicks aren't being unreasonable here and if Lee was so in demand he would have gotten an offer from someone by now. He has no leverage and he knows it, so now he wants to lash out.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
King1
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7/23/2009  8:52 PM
Lee loves the Knicks and no one knows what he has asked for and what Walsh has offered we are listening to people like Berman and Hahn as if they know what exactly is going on. I think Lee is more frustrated because he isnt playing in Vegas right now.
codeunknown
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7/23/2009  8:57 PM
No real reason to be angry at anyone here. Both parties are bargaining, as they should. Also don't think there is such a thing as an absolute value here. Lee will get the highest amount that he can attract; the same amount that the team will believe is the lowest they have to offer to lure him; an amount likely determined by either the Portland Trailblazers, the Knicks or the qualifying offer in a market saturated after 1 month of signings; likely a lower amount he would have gotten 3 years ago; an amount difficult to compare to what he would/will get next year; and in the event that it exceeds 7.5 million, an amount the Knicks should be unwilling to match as his marginal on court value in the current milieu of coaching and players is mild.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
s3231
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7/23/2009  9:00 PM
This thread almost makes me embarrassed to be a Knicks fan (I say almost because at least a few fans think along the same lines as I do).

I've never seen someone like this do so little and get bashed so much. We are talking about a homegrown big man that busted his tail for 4 years. Not to mention, he did it at a time when we were clearly one of the most dysfunctional franchises in sports history. You would think that if anything, we would have an appreciation for such a player after watching the garbage that has been our frontcourt in the past several seasons.

Lee isn't perfect, but nobody can dispute the fact that this guy is an above average big man in this league. I don't care what team you are on, when you get 16ppg, 12rpg, and do it with great efficiency, you are not an average player. Some of you call Lee delusional for wanting $10 million, I call you delusional for being so surprised. After seeing the deals that Varejao and Bargnani got, Lee and his agent would be idiots if they didn't try to use that as leverage. 26 year old bigmen that lead the league in double doubles don't exactly grow on trees.

Plus, we don't know exactly what is going on in these negotiations. Honestly, if Walsh is offering this guy $7 million a year, I expect Lee to be frustrated. When you see other guys that are worse than you getting more money than that after all of the years of work you put in, that has to eat at you. Lee carries himself well off the court too and has always been a positive image for this franchise.

Do I think we should pay Lee $10-12 million a year? No I don't. I do think that this fan base underrates him though. He has an above average offensive game and also excels at rebounding. His weakness has always been help defense, but that is something that can be fixed and worked on (unlike other facets of defense such as lateral quickness). Lee has shown the work ethic and ability to improve his game each season. I don't see any reason why he won't improve on the defensive end. I'm not saying he will be the all-league defensive team, but I expect him to get better in that area.

Honestly, I don't see any reason why a compromise can't be reached to bring Lee back. There are ways to be creative here so that we can keep some of our 2010 cap space, I expect Walsh to find a way to make that work, even if it means back-loading Lee's contract. Lee's not worth $12 million a year but you can argue that $9 million is a fair number for both sides and I think it would be enough to get it done.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Caseloads
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7/23/2009  9:01 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by bitty41:

Knick fans are really fickle David Lee was among the so-called good guys in a crappy organization. Now that he's dared to even ask for money that might compromise 2010 FA he's a piece of dog poo.

What is amazing to me is how for many "fans" David Lee was always a piece of dog poo. Now those same people are just piling on.

I never loved Lee, always thought he was a good hustle 7th or 8th man on a winning team. This is nothing new.

But he's the best player on this team right now and tin men like Larry Hughes are making serious money so David Lee should what ask for less because that's the nice thing to do?

So we should pay him more because some fool decided to pay Larry Hughes. This is Isiah-style thinking.

No but you do show your appreciation for his work and play. That's what good organizations do anyway. King will tell that I am by no means David Lee fan but I think him and Nate are getting a raw deal.

If there were no salary cap, trust I'd be right there with you. But there is one, and this is a business. Knicks aren't being unreasonable here and if Lee was so in demand he would have gotten an offer from someone by now. He has no leverage and he knows it, so now he wants to lash out.
+1
djsunyc
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7/23/2009  9:07 PM
this is a business. lee is talking to the media b/c his agent probably told him too. these things are ochestrated.

why do fans use phrases like "we have to pay him" - there is no we. the team pays him, you don't. this is all happening b/c of the savior in 2010. but if the knicks sign lee for $10 and not $8, it's only TWO million towards the cap in 2010. TWO million. TWO million that doesn't prevent a max player from coming. so what's the problem here? once the max guy is signed, the knicks will be over the cap for the next 5+ years so what's two extra mil in 2010 matter so much? i don't understand why so many knicks fans are taking such an extreme and stubborn stance on it. it's two million. he's not untradeable either.

why doesn't walsh get creative and offer curry a buyout for $2 mil less than next year's contract and then pay him the two million as an employee of the knicks organization when his playing days are over. then curry can go someplace else, still play get paid and can recoup the $2 mil that's sitting in an escrow account someplace. there's still 10 months before next year's free agency - you have no faith in walsh to dump another contract by then?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-23-2009 9:09 PM]
Paladin55
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7/23/2009  9:08 PM
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by bitty41:

Knick fans are really fickle David Lee was among the so-called good guys in a crappy organization. Now that he's dared to even ask for money that might compromise 2010 FA he's a piece of dog poo.

What is amazing to me is how for many "fans" David Lee was always a piece of dog poo. Now those same people are just piling on.

I never loved Lee, always thought he was a good hustle 7th or 8th man on a winning team. This is nothing new.
"In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king," so Lee's value has increased, relatively, as so many other Knicks have done poorly.

I would say that he is a 25-35 MPG 6th man on a good team. He usually makes smart decisions, is good for the flow of an offense, and he has evolved as a player in the 4 years that we had him, even though he came into the league as an "older" player (22), who you would expect to have had a limited upside.

I have been critical of his defense, and his rejection of a weight program that would have put some muscle on his frame, and that is what upsets me a great deal, although this is not the only reason his game hit a plateau on D. The added strength would have helped his defense and allowed him to be an even better rebounder, however there is no denying the fact that he frequently disappeared on the inside when he should, at the very least, have been fouling guys going for shots. Most folks on UK would be happy if they saw Lee banging down low, really moving his feet to stay in position in front of his man, or hacking a guy going up for a shot. If we had a shot blocker on the team last year, Lee's weaknesses would not have been as glaring, but that was not the case.

I don't see why people get annoyed if he expresses some frustration with the Knicks. I just wish that he would admit that he and his agent just may have been wrong about his value as a player, or be puzzled about the lack of interest in him by other teams, and not just repeat the BS his agent has given him about the many teams who want him.

What he is probably most frustrated about is the simple fact that Donnie has not shown him some immediate love after his agent had asked for some of the crazy contract numbers that have been going around (Do we have an actual quote on a $12M demand- or has that always been speculation?), and that by being patient and watching the free agent contract dust clear, Walsh has contributed to the drop in Lee's worth.
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
djsunyc
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7/23/2009  9:08 PM
Posted by s3231:

This thread almost makes me embarrassed to be a Knicks fan (I say almost because at least a few fans think along the same lines as I do).

I've never seen someone like this do so little and get bashed so much. We are talking about a homegrown big man that busted his tail for 4 years. Not to mention, he did it at a time when we were clearly one of the most dysfunctional franchises in sports history. You would think that if anything, we would have an appreciation for such a player after watching the garbage that has been our frontcourt in the past several seasons.

Lee isn't perfect, but nobody can dispute the fact that this guy is an above average big man in this league. I don't care what team you are on, when you get 16ppg, 12rpg, and do it with great efficiency, you are not an average player. Some of you call Lee delusional for wanting $10 million, I call you delusional for being so surprised. After seeing the deals that Varejao and Bargnani got, Lee and his agent would be idiots if they didn't try to use that as leverage. 26 year old bigmen that lead the league in double doubles don't exactly grow on trees.

Plus, we don't know exactly what is going on in these negotiations. Honestly, if Walsh is offering this guy $7 million a year, I expect Lee to be frustrated. When you see other guys that are worse than you getting more money than that after all of the years of work you put in, that has to eat at you. Lee carries himself well off the court too and has always been a positive image for this franchise.

Do I think we should pay Lee $10-12 million a year? No I don't. I do think that this fan base underrates him though. He has an above average offensive game and also excels at rebounding. His weakness has always been help defense, but that is something that can be fixed and worked on (unlike other facets of defense such as lateral quickness). Lee has shown the work ethic and ability to improve his game each season. I don't see any reason why he won't improve on the defensive end. I'm not saying he will be the all-league defensive team, but I expect him to get better in that area.

Honestly, I don't see any reason why a compromise can't be reached to bring Lee back. There are ways to be creative here so that we can keep some of our 2010 cap space, I expect Walsh to find a way to make that work, even if it means back-loading Lee's contract. Lee's not worth $12 million a year but you can argue that $9 million is a fair number for both sides and I think it would be enough to get it done.

now this is a solid solid solid post.
sebstar
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7/23/2009  9:16 PM
now this is a solid solid solid post.

Please, you're not even a Knick fan. You probably want the Knicks to overpay for Lee, so it would be one less suitor for your man Bosh or something to that effect.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
BasketballJones
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7/23/2009  9:16 PM
Posted by s3231:

This thread almost makes me embarrassed to be a Knicks fan (I say almost because at least a few fans think along the same lines as I do).

So after everything that's happened up till now, you're only now feeling embarrassed?
https:// It's not so hard.
crzymdups
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7/23/2009  9:18 PM
any team that signs dlee to a deal worth an average of $10M a season will live to regret it. he doesn't impact a game with his numbers. i like him, but he's not worth $10M a year. he's not a definite starter. look at all the teams with cap room this season who don't have a definite starter at the 4. if dlee is worth $10M, shouldn't they be lining up to sign him? i'm talking about detroit (went with charlie v), memphis, okc, etc. portland is looking for a backup and he's perfect for them. they want to pay a backup $9M a year? fine. they don't seem to be jumping at it, either, investigating hedo and miller first.
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Paladin55
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7/23/2009  9:20 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

this is a business. lee is talking to the media b/c his agent probably told him too. these things are ochestrated.

why do fans use phrases like "we have to pay him" - there is no we. the team pays him, you don't. this is all happening b/c of the savior in 2010. but if the knicks sign lee for $10 and not $8, it's only TWO million towards the cap in 2010. TWO million. TWO million that doesn't prevent a max player from coming. so what's the problem here? once the max guy is signed, the knicks will be over the cap for the next 5+ years so what's two extra mil in 2010 matter so much? i don't understand why so many knicks fans are taking such an extreme and stubborn stance on it. it's two million. he's not untradeable either.

why doesn't walsh get creative and offer curry a buyout for $2 mil less than next year's contract and then pay him the two million as an employee of the knicks organization when his playing days are over. then curry can go someplace else, still play get paid and can recoup the $2 mil that's sitting in an escrow account someplace. there's still 10 months before next year's free agency - you have no faith in walsh to dump another contract by then?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-23-2009 9:09 PM]

Some of the feelings folks around here are expressing also come from their frustration over having seen the Knicks pay out so many millions to so many undeserving players over the past few years. If overpaying for Lee was an aberration, people would not be reacting this strongly. The team has a history of overpaying, and fans, at least those on UK, are reacting strongly to the possibility of the team doing it again.

I don't think Lee is deserving of the enmity he seems to be getting here, but timing is everything, and his initial asking price of $12M/yr did not exactly endear him to many fans.
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
djsunyc
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7/23/2009  9:21 PM
Posted by sebstar:
now this is a solid solid solid post.

Please, you're not even a Knick fan. You probably want the Knicks to overpay for Lee, so it would be one less suitor for your man Bosh or something to that effect.

lol...if bosh wants to play in ny, he will. doesn't matter to me either way. but the knicks always do things at extremes. isiah kept spending and spending and spending. and walsh is all about 2010...which may cost him two very good players in lee + nate. it is VERY difficult to win games in the nba. there's a subtle difference. most games comes down to the final 2 minutes. and then, it's a key stop or someone making some big shots that makes up the difference between a 23 win team and a 43 win team. so on one hand, people say lee can't help you win games, but then on the other, people think this squad is better than cleveland and lebron would win more with this roster. if that's so, then what's the difference between verejao getting $50 mil and not lee? b/c the knicks will STILL HAVE THE MONEY to sign lebron. that's what i don't get at all. overpaying means jack squat. now if you're telling me overpaying a few players means you no longer have the max to spend, ok, that's one thing, but that's not the case here.
sebstar
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7/23/2009  9:26 PM
Posted by s3231:

This thread almost makes me embarrassed to be a Knicks fan (I say almost because at least a few fans think along the same lines as I do).

No need to be embarrassed. Trust, if Lee had 5-10 legitimate suitors and he knew he could get the kind of deal he's seeking he would be on the first thing smoking and he wouldnt give a damn about NY.

But he doesnt. So far nobody wants to pay what he's asking. So faced with this, he has taken to whining and bitching and some knick fans are calling a spade a spade.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
King1
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7/23/2009  9:39 PM
No one knows what Lee is asking for and Walsh is offering. I know none of you buy cars but you never pay sticker. Lee has a sticker price and then Walsh should offer something and then you negotiate.
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