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Walsh/MDA
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bitty41
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7/20/2009  7:48 PM
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by knicks1248:

Isaih supporter...dude don't make me choke...I could give 2 cents about thomas he made his bed...what I do care about is winning and getting and playing hard and smart, but this current roster is about make utah one happy camper cause this is by far the worse roster I've seen in the last umteen years interm of players who actual care..

You can't criticize Walsh and NOT be a Isiah supporter that's the straw man argument around these parts.

But yet you still haven't analyzed any of the points made...

What points? All I want to see is good basketball doesn't have to be great but just an exciting/competitive team. That's going to make me spend money on tickets and watch games on a consistent basis not the salary cap. There is not one legitimate reason that you or anyone else can give for Walsh not meeting this basic standard.

AUTOADVERT
GKFv2
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7/20/2009  7:50 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by knicks1248:

Isaih supporter...dude don't make me choke...I could give 2 cents about thomas he made his bed...what I do care about is winning and getting and playing hard and smart, but this current roster is about make utah one happy camper cause this is by far the worse roster I've seen in the last umteen years interm of players who actual care..

You can't criticize Walsh and NOT be a Isiah supporter that's the straw man argument around these parts.

But yet you still haven't analyzed any of the points made...

What points? All I want to see is good basketball doesn't have to be great but just an exciting/competitive team. That's going to make me spend money on tickets and watch games on a consistent basis not the salary cap. There is not one legitimate reason that you or anyone else can give for Walsh not meeting this basic standard.

You want to keep trading ourselves into oblivion in hopes we find something that will work, ala the Isiah way. Well guess what? We tried that already and it failed miserably. We're taking a new approach. If you can't handle it, see yourself to the imaginary door.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
bitty41
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7/20/2009  7:53 PM
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by knicks1248:

Isaih supporter...dude don't make me choke...I could give 2 cents about thomas he made his bed...what I do care about is winning and getting and playing hard and smart, but this current roster is about make utah one happy camper cause this is by far the worse roster I've seen in the last umteen years interm of players who actual care..

You can't criticize Walsh and NOT be a Isiah supporter that's the straw man argument around these parts.

But yet you still haven't analyzed any of the points made...

What points? All I want to see is good basketball doesn't have to be great but just an exciting/competitive team. That's going to make me spend money on tickets and watch games on a consistent basis not the salary cap. There is not one legitimate reason that you or anyone else can give for Walsh not meeting this basic standard.

You want to keep trading ourselves into oblivion in hopes we find something that will work, ala the Isiah way. Well guess what? We tried that already and it failed miserably. We're taking a new approach. If you can't handle it, see yourself to the imaginary door.


Let me introduce you to a new concept: there isn't only one way of creating a winning team. It really is amazing how much Knick fans are committed to this idea I would just hate to wake up as Donnie Walsh on the morning after Lebron signs his extension with Clev.
GKFv2
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7/20/2009  7:55 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by knicks1248:

Isaih supporter...dude don't make me choke...I could give 2 cents about thomas he made his bed...what I do care about is winning and getting and playing hard and smart, but this current roster is about make utah one happy camper cause this is by far the worse roster I've seen in the last umteen years interm of players who actual care..

You can't criticize Walsh and NOT be a Isiah supporter that's the straw man argument around these parts.

But yet you still haven't analyzed any of the points made...

What points? All I want to see is good basketball doesn't have to be great but just an exciting/competitive team. That's going to make me spend money on tickets and watch games on a consistent basis not the salary cap. There is not one legitimate reason that you or anyone else can give for Walsh not meeting this basic standard.

You want to keep trading ourselves into oblivion in hopes we find something that will work, ala the Isiah way. Well guess what? We tried that already and it failed miserably. We're taking a new approach. If you can't handle it, see yourself to the imaginary door.


Let me introduce you to a new concept: there isn't only one way of creating a winning team. It really is amazing how much Knick fans are committed to this idea I would just hate to wake up as Donnie Walsh on the morning after Lebron signs his extension with Clev.

Your way (the starphuck) of building the team failed. We are trying a way we haven't done in about 15 years, probably more. 2010 is not all about LeBron. Gotta keep repeating that ad nauseum.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
knicks1248
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7/20/2009  7:57 PM
No ones saying what happens if LJ, wade, Bosh, Joe,dirk, Roy, sign extentions..should walsh be fired, smack, punked,kicks, or does he get pass.
ES
bitty41
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7/20/2009  7:58 PM
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by knicks1248:

Isaih supporter...dude don't make me choke...I could give 2 cents about thomas he made his bed...what I do care about is winning and getting and playing hard and smart, but this current roster is about make utah one happy camper cause this is by far the worse roster I've seen in the last umteen years interm of players who actual care..

You can't criticize Walsh and NOT be a Isiah supporter that's the straw man argument around these parts.

But yet you still haven't analyzed any of the points made...

What points? All I want to see is good basketball doesn't have to be great but just an exciting/competitive team. That's going to make me spend money on tickets and watch games on a consistent basis not the salary cap. There is not one legitimate reason that you or anyone else can give for Walsh not meeting this basic standard.

You want to keep trading ourselves into oblivion in hopes we find something that will work, ala the Isiah way. Well guess what? We tried that already and it failed miserably. We're taking a new approach. If you can't handle it, see yourself to the imaginary door.


Let me introduce you to a new concept: there isn't only one way of creating a winning team. It really is amazing how much Knick fans are committed to this idea I would just hate to wake up as Donnie Walsh on the morning after Lebron signs his extension with Clev.

Your way (the starphuck) of building the team failed. We are trying a way we haven't done in about 15 years, probably more. 2010 is not all about LeBron. Gotta keep repeating that ad nauseum.

I'm getting paid millions to manage an NBA team that's news to me!
nixluva
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7/20/2009  7:58 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by knicks1248:

I'm not saying get rid of either of them and I'm reluctly giving them there shot at it, but it seems to me that there putting all there chips on the same number hoping to get lucky..the funny thing is MDA says it in almost every single interview.."We need to get lucky" which to some degree he's right.. But what I would like to here is plan B..neither IT or layden had a plan B, and that was there freaken problem.. What happens if none of the top 5 FA land in ny what the hell is your next move..

The knicks aren't selling .lol..what are they doing, cause they aint buying neither.

I've been around long enough to know you need to have another plan in place if sht don't work out, not scratching your head all dress up a pocket full and no date.

This regime as yet to diclose that plan.

Curry and rubio, hill and kidd...lee and nate..these plans are not coming together at all..

People keep saying we don't have a back up plan. I really don't get this. What do you mean???

How can any GM get more specific than Walsh has been in terms of what he's doing? The 1st step is to get under the cap so that we can have flexibility and more options to make moves to improve this team. We obviously would be moving out players that can't help us to win and replacing them with players that they feel we can win with. Now if we don't get the plan A players in FA, then we move to the plan B players. If even that doesn't happen we move on to 2011 and another crop of FA's as well as possible trades. No matter what happens we'll be in a much better situation cap wise and that's always good.
GKFv2
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7/20/2009  7:59 PM
Posted by knicks1248:

No ones saying what happens if LJ, wade, Bosh, Joe,dirk, Roy, sign extentions..should walsh be fired, smack, punked,kicks, or does he get pass.

Why would he get fired when we wouldn't be in a worse position than we were during the Isiah era?
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
djsunyc
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7/20/2009  8:01 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by knicks1248:

I'm not saying get rid of either of them and I'm reluctly giving them there shot at it, but it seems to me that there putting all there chips on the same number hoping to get lucky..the funny thing is MDA says it in almost every single interview.."We need to get lucky" which to some degree he's right.. But what I would like to here is plan B..neither IT or layden had a plan B, and that was there freaken problem.. What happens if none of the top 5 FA land in ny what the hell is your next move..

The knicks aren't selling .lol..what are they doing, cause they aint buying neither.

I've been around long enough to know you need to have another plan in place if sht don't work out, not scratching your head all dress up a pocket full and no date.

This regime as yet to diclose that plan.

Curry and rubio, hill and kidd...lee and nate..these plans are not coming together at all..

People keep saying we don't have a back up plan. I really don't get this. What do you mean???

How can any GM get more specific than Walsh has been in terms of what he's doing? The 1st step is to get under the cap so that we can have flexibility and more options to make moves to improve this team. We obviously would be moving out players that can't help us to win and replacing them with players that they feel we can win with. Now if we don't get the plan A players in FA, then we move to the plan B players. If even that doesn't happen we move on to 2011 and another crop of FA's as well as possible trades. No matter what happens we'll be in a much better situation cap wise and that's always good.

there's nothing wrong with walsh's plan. that's why he should not deviate from it and everyone will see what the deal is in 2010. but it's ok to question it and the moves he's made in the interim. plan B players are obtainable w/o dumping contracts.

the question i have are what assets has walsh accumulated?
bitty41
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7/20/2009  8:04 PM
the question i have are what assets has walsh accumulated?

I heard the Gatorade is off the chain especially with the added Chris Duhon special!
GKFv2
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7/20/2009  8:04 PM
What assets can you accumulate when your roster looks like this:

Balkman, Renaldo
Chandler, Wilson
Collins, Mardy
Crawford, Jamal
Curry, Eddy
James, Jerome
Jeffries, Jared
Jones, Fred
Lee, David
Marbury, Stephon
Morris, Randolph
Randolph, Zach
Richardson, Quentin
Robinson, Nate
Rose, Malik
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
Paladin55
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7/20/2009  8:29 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by djsunyc:

you know, with a coach as heralded as d'antoni, you think they could've been a little more patient to see what they had...

I think everyone is forgetting about the bad vibes around the team. There was no desire to go to bat with that team, win 35 games, grab an 8th seed and pray to god all season that the team doesn't implode and create another headline grabbing mess. It was time to clear this roster. Get some time for Gallo(if he had been healthy), Nate, Lee and Chandler. It was time to move on from the vets and "see what we had" with the young guys, not a group of malcontents.

There is a method to the madness, but we refuse to admit how low we had sunk. We still are on this imaginary trip in which that team was actually good, "they just needed the right coach".

i see no negative for making the playoffs given the state of the franchise and how bad it's been for 7+ years. the bad vibes were created by d'antoni for benching marbury from the get go and not letting walsh in on it.
we have seen 37 win teams make the playoffs... its not a positive.

you're learning disabled so your opinions don't count...

I think they use the term "differently advantaged," now.
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
WindsorPl
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7/20/2009  9:07 PM
On one hand people do not like the idea of signing Kidd, Hill. On the other hand, Walsh is slammed for not having plan B and C.
On one hand, people do not like the idea of having bad contracts. On the other hand, Walsh is being blamed for sacrificing a promising 6-5 season to get rid of bad contracts.
I can go on, but there is a contradiction in the criticism of Walsh/MDA.
We are one year removed from Marbury. One year and Walsh has already failed because we do not have a winning product on the court already.
My view is, Walsh has done an unbelievable job in 1 year to turn over the roster, we are now discussing Gallo, Chandler, trading for Rubio, maybe Sessions, gone are the discussions about JJ, QBrick, Marbury, the culture is already different.
Last year, there was no end in sight to the cap hell the knicks were in. Just one year later, the fans can dream about 2010, yes it maybe a pipe dream, but it is not something they could do last year.
I do not care about 2010, if Lebron comes, he is welcome, if not,we have a bright future regadless.
The day I see Walsh make a bad trade, he will get the business from me and most of this board I presume. But so far, I have not seen a bad trade yet.

PS: I am shocked nobody made the argument yet that Walsh could not get our 2010 1st round pick from Utah. That should be an easy trade. Humm, let's see. Any GM should be able to get that pick back by giving Utah Curry and JJ2. If Walsh cannot make that trade, he is a moron.
knicks1248
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7/21/2009  10:08 AM
I think what most of us who agree on the subject, believe that walsh could have got a better deal done had he been a little more patient..

Then you keep telling the fans that you really want to stay competetive and make the playoff and yet your assembling a roster of a bunch of lame duck players. I mean I really don't see why it would be wrong to seek out a trade for atleast an all star, instead of seeking a 1 year back ups who's heart won't be in it. The same way he jump to get rid of players is the same way he can aquire better talent..we literaly have 12 back ups on our roster.
ES
Bippity10
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7/21/2009  10:19 AM
Posted by knicks1248:

I think what most of us who agree on the subject, believe that walsh could have got a better deal done had he been a little more patient..

Then you keep telling the fans that you really want to stay competetive and make the playoff and yet your assembling a roster of a bunch of lame duck players. I mean I really don't see why it would be wrong to seek out a trade for atleast an all star, instead of seeking a 1 year back ups who's heart won't be in it. The same way he jump to get rid of players is the same way he can aquire better talent..we literaly have 12 back ups on our roster.

What are you giving up to get that all-star talent?
I just hope that people will like me
McK1
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7/21/2009  10:25 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by knicks1248:

I think what most of us who agree on the subject, believe that walsh could have got a better deal done had he been a little more patient..

Then you keep telling the fans that you really want to stay competetive and make the playoff and yet your assembling a roster of a bunch of lame duck players. I mean I really don't see why it would be wrong to seek out a trade for atleast an all star, instead of seeking a 1 year back ups who's heart won't be in it. The same way he jump to get rid of players is the same way he can aquire better talent..we literaly have 12 back ups on our roster.

What are you giving up to get that all-star talent?

expirings for Baron
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
NYKBocker
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7/21/2009  10:30 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by GKFv2:

No. I'm not a rocket scientist but apparently you are Nostradamus.

was Nostradamus a rocket scientist? i didn't know they had rockets back in his day.

rockets were invented in china..duh.
Bippity10
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7/21/2009  10:30 AM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by knicks1248:

I think what most of us who agree on the subject, believe that walsh could have got a better deal done had he been a little more patient..

Then you keep telling the fans that you really want to stay competetive and make the playoff and yet your assembling a roster of a bunch of lame duck players. I mean I really don't see why it would be wrong to seek out a trade for atleast an all star, instead of seeking a 1 year back ups who's heart won't be in it. The same way he jump to get rid of players is the same way he can aquire better talent..we literaly have 12 back ups on our roster.

What are you giving up to get that all-star talent?

expirings for Baron

So you are assuming that's all Los Angeles wants. You're also assuming that this conversation has never occured. So let's leave those assumptions out there and just say they are true.

What does Baron do for us?
I just hope that people will like me
jazz74
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7/21/2009  10:31 AM
i too was confident about 2010 but then i see some b level free agents this year refusing us it causes me to doubt. we need a competitive team this year, straight up. we dont have a first round pick so even if we suck we wont get "rewarded" and we have to be competitive for the free agents to say, "hey, we have a chance to win" in a league that i think is close to parody anyway.
fishmike
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7/21/2009  10:33 AM
Posted by knicks1248:

I think what most of us who agree on the subject, believe that walsh could have got a better deal done had he been a little more patient..

Then you keep telling the fans that you really want to stay competetive and make the playoff and yet your assembling a roster of a bunch of lame duck players. I mean I really don't see why it would be wrong to seek out a trade for atleast an all star, instead of seeking a 1 year back ups who's heart won't be in it. The same way he jump to get rid of players is the same way he can aquire better talent..we literaly have 12 back ups on our roster.
whats the better deal your upset about him not getting?

I mean talk about nit picking and being the arm chair QB. So the Knicks were 6-5. Your going to sit here and tell me Crawford and Zach were leading us to the playoffs? Then maybe we should have just stuck with Isiah then?

There are a group of fans on this board that see every trade that happens in the NBA as a missed opportunity for the Knicks. Its lunacy.

You asked earlier what Walsh has done to merit patience in the past? More than most any GM.. he's built two contendors from scratch. The Pacers of the 90s made it to the finals, and did so without a star player. Then when that team got a little old, rather than be happy to make the playoffs for the next few years he rebuilt it again into one of the more promising and talented teams in the NBA. If not for the malice in the palace that team could have made title runs for a few years. Reggie, Oneil, Artest, Harrington, Tinsley, Foster, Fred Jones and Pollard was a good squad he build, and did so with no high draft picks.

So we can sit here and 2nd guess this guy for not giving big money to players from a 23 wins team or not taking the guy you coveted in the draft or 2nd guessing every NBA trade... or we can see if he can do here what he's done in the past. Which is build a team that can contend for an NBA title.

When he starts trading away the future for an overweight center OK.. I will hear your beefs. So far all he's done is set up for the future
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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