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F 2010--go get me Lamar Odom
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fishmike
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2/25/2009  10:58 AM
Posted by knicksbabyyeah:

So wait, you're saying he'll leave 5-8 million on the table to join a rebuilding team that may or may not resign him in the future while he's playing a 6th man role for a championship contender?

We do no have that grabbing power as of yet.

Why would Odom not go with the "show me the money", when there's a major economic downturn and you do not know how the new CBA in 2011 is going to be and there's already talk there might be another lockout.

If you were Odom would you really sign for less, in this current environment?


that's Crazy
I think your missing the point 5-8mm less? Where is that money coming from? I think there are two teams under the cap: Memphis and OKC, and not by much.
So here are Odom's possibilities:
Resign with Lakers (most likely)
Sign big deal with Memphis or OKC (very far fetched)
Sign a MLE deal.

Lakers are at $74mm next year without Odom.

I think the point was its very possible that Lakers wont offer him a big contract because their payroll is so bloated (Bynum goes from 2.7mm to 12.5mm).

That leaves the above choices. I dont think its so far fetched that Odom doesnt get a big offer and has to look around. If thats the case signing here for MLE would is plausable

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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martin
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2/25/2009  11:11 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by knicksbabyyeah:

So wait, you're saying he'll leave 5-8 million on the table to join a rebuilding team that may or may not resign him in the future while he's playing a 6th man role for a championship contender?

We do no have that grabbing power as of yet.

Why would Odom not go with the "show me the money", when there's a major economic downturn and you do not know how the new CBA in 2011 is going to be and there's already talk there might be another lockout.

If you were Odom would you really sign for less, in this current environment?


that's Crazy
I think your missing the point 5-8mm less? Where is that money coming from? I think there are two teams under the cap: Memphis and OKC, and not by much.
So here are Odom's possibilities:
Resign with Lakers (most likely)
Sign big deal with Memphis or OKC (very far fetched)
Sign a MLE deal.

Lakers are at $74mm next year without Odom.

I think the point was its very possible that Lakers wont offer him a big contract because their payroll is so bloated (Bynum goes from 2.7mm to 12.5mm).

That leaves the above choices. I dont think its so far fetched that Odom doesnt get a big offer and has to look around. If thats the case signing here for MLE would is plausable

Detroit will have tons of cap space this summer.
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EwingsGlass
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2/25/2009  11:18 AM
Before he signs an MLE, I think he would investigate (1) the Laker's interest, (2) Laker's sign and trade potential (3) teams with cap space. I still don't think he can be had for the MLE, but if takes it (or RonRon or Rashweed for that matter) I think the price is right...even if you have to give a trade kicker.
You know I gonna spin wit it
fishmike
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2/25/2009  11:21 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by knicksbabyyeah:

So wait, you're saying he'll leave 5-8 million on the table to join a rebuilding team that may or may not resign him in the future while he's playing a 6th man role for a championship contender?

We do no have that grabbing power as of yet.

Why would Odom not go with the "show me the money", when there's a major economic downturn and you do not know how the new CBA in 2011 is going to be and there's already talk there might be another lockout.

If you were Odom would you really sign for less, in this current environment?


that's Crazy
I think your missing the point 5-8mm less? Where is that money coming from? I think there are two teams under the cap: Memphis and OKC, and not by much.
So here are Odom's possibilities:
Resign with Lakers (most likely)
Sign big deal with Memphis or OKC (very far fetched)
Sign a MLE deal.

Lakers are at $74mm next year without Odom.

I think the point was its very possible that Lakers wont offer him a big contract because their payroll is so bloated (Bynum goes from 2.7mm to 12.5mm).

That leaves the above choices. I dont think its so far fetched that Odom doesnt get a big offer and has to look around. If thats the case signing here for MLE would is plausable

Detroit will have tons of cap space this summer.
Only if they release their rights to Rasheed Wallace and Iverson. Sheed is old but still very effective. Iverson still has gas left in the tank. But your getting the point... Say Detroit gives Odom a $8-$10mm deal, it means Sheed or AI are on the MLE market, etc

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
knicksbabyyeah
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2/25/2009  11:29 AM
Posted by fishmike:


So here are Odom's possibilities:
Resign with Lakers (most likely)
Sign big deal with Memphis or OKC (very far fetched)
Sign a MLE deal.

You're missing the most important one, the sign and trade

The Odds:
1.Resign with the Lakers,
2.Be sign-and-traded by the Lakers
3/4.Sign a big deal with a team that has caproom
3/4.Sign for the MLE for 5 yrs
5.Sign for the MLE for 2 yrs
fishmike
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2/25/2009  11:58 AM
Posted by knicksbabyyeah:
Posted by fishmike:


So here are Odom's possibilities:
Resign with Lakers (most likely)
Sign big deal with Memphis or OKC (very far fetched)
Sign a MLE deal.

You're missing the most important one, the sign and trade

The Odds:
1.Resign with the Lakers,
2.Be sign-and-traded by the Lakers
3/4.Sign a big deal with a team that has caproom
3/4.Sign for the MLE for 5 yrs
5.Sign for the MLE for 2 yrs
Not sure I agree. If the Lakers dont care about the tax or payroll then yes, he resigns there, but that puts their payroll over $85k. Odom makes $11.5mm. If the Lakers bring him back for $10mm a year they are effectively playing $20mm (tax $$) for the 4th option on their team. At some point you have to be realistic about the business side. Do the Lakers want to pay $20mm for the 4th guy?

I would say the odds are 75/25 that they DONT want to.

Sign and trade? What does that accomplish? Lakers have to take back matching salaries, so they are still playing that massive luxury tax. If they are willing to do that they would just resign their own player so a sign and trade doesnt factor in here either.

That leaves teams with cap space next year:
Thunder $41,766,516
Hawks $40,865,197
Grizzlies $35,969,532
Pistons $34,069,244

Where is Odom going for $10mm because they have their own FAs to bring back:
Thunder $41,766,516
Hawks $40,865,197 (Bibby, Marvin Williams)
Grizzlies $35,969,532 (Hakeem Warrick)
Pistons $34,069,244 (Iverson, Rasheed, Maxiell)

This doesnt include money counted against the cap for first round draft picks.

There will be some very talented FAs with nowhere to go but to teams with MLE. Question is do the Knicks play that market?




"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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2/25/2009  12:13 PM
Posted by knicksbabyyeah:
Posted by fishmike:


So here are Odom's possibilities:
Resign with Lakers (most likely)
Sign big deal with Memphis or OKC (very far fetched)
Sign a MLE deal.

You're missing the most important one, the sign and trade

The Odds:
1.Resign with the Lakers,
2.Be sign-and-traded by the Lakers
3/4.Sign a big deal with a team that has caproom
3/4.Sign for the MLE for 5 yrs
5.Sign for the MLE for 2 yrs

He's not resigning with the Lakers--they cant afford him. They are already at 75mm for next year. Then you are looking at 3-4 teams who have cap space. I highly doubt he can get it with the number of younger FA's--it's possible but thats not really how you rebuild.

I'd offer him whatever he wants with the MLE 2 years 5 years with the earliest opt out that he wanted. Worst case scenario is injury which is covered by insurance
RIP Crushalot😞
franco12
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2/25/2009  12:17 PM
I'm not a big Odom fan, but there could be a lot of really good players available cheap.

As for resigning with the Lakers, I can see the Lakers taking a pass. It took an injury for him to get minutes, and for whatever reason, Phil doesn't seem to like him.

But we already have a lot of parts that are very similar to Odom, and he doesn't fix any of our biggest problems: Shot blocking, perimeter and interior defense.

If the plan is to field 5 guys all 6'8" t0 6'10" who can shoot the 3, pass and driblle, but don't play defense, great.

Otherwise, I'd rather look at taking a one year MLE deal with Jason Kidd or some other player that better helps cover up our warts.
Finestrg
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2/25/2009  1:17 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by knicksbabyyeah:
Posted by fishmike:


So here are Odom's possibilities:
Resign with Lakers (most likely)
Sign big deal with Memphis or OKC (very far fetched)
Sign a MLE deal.

You're missing the most important one, the sign and trade

The Odds:
1.Resign with the Lakers,
2.Be sign-and-traded by the Lakers
3/4.Sign a big deal with a team that has caproom
3/4.Sign for the MLE for 5 yrs
5.Sign for the MLE for 2 yrs

He's not resigning with the Lakers--they cant afford him. They are already at 75mm for next year. Then you are looking at 3-4 teams who have cap space. I highly doubt he can get it with the number of younger FA's--it's possible but thats not really how you rebuild.

I'd offer him whatever he wants with the MLE 2 years 5 years with the earliest opt out that he wanted. Worst case scenario is injury which is covered by insurance

If you're the Knicks, of course it's a no-brainer to pick him up for the MLE but I don't see that happening at all. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the Lakers have the right to match and exceed any offer he gets? If we come along and offer a max mid-level proposal of $5-6 mil. per, how do the Lakers not match or exceed that? Off course they would. Talk about no-brainers -- that's a no-brainer for the Lakeshow. He gets a new contract exceeding our offer and that's that. I really think the Lakers will Pony up and offer him just value and it won't even get that far. He's gonna get a fair offer to stay, that's my hunch. He's such a huge part of their success - I just don't see them saying "see ya later" to Odom at the end of the year. How would they replace him? They'd be over the cap threshold so signing a FA replacement is out of the question and they can't replace his talent from within (Josh Powell's actually a nice player & a lot better than I ever thought but he's no Lamar Odom). What would Kobe have to say about that btw? You think he'd let this happen?? Consider this - Lakers get to the finals again, match up with Boston again and don't have Bynum AGAIN. Could happen. Very possible. They very well could lose that series again just like last year. Now what do you do if you're the Lakers - scrap the whole thing after being that close minus Bynum two years in a row (a legit excuse btw) or remain patient by keeping the core together (it's a championship level roster WITH ODOM) and wait for Bynum to come back healthy next season and go for it the following year? Of course, the answer's the later. Subtracting Odom from a championship level team FOR NOTHING when they have the ability to re-sign him to proper market value or close to it OR match any substandard offer sheet and still get a bargin OR design a sign and trade with another club to at least get some compensation back in return would be one of the stupidest things any NBA organization's done in recent memory. I know the economy's bad now and times are tight, but I just don't see a title contender like the LA Lakers letting a valuable player like Odom walk for nothing like that. Lakers have options here. They'd be folding with a full house or 4 aces, letting him walk for nothing like that.
fishmike
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2/25/2009  1:32 PM
Posted by Finestrg:
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the Lakers have the right to match and exceed any offer he gets? If we come along and offer a max mid-level proposal of $5-6 mil. per, how do the Lakers not match or exceed that?
wrong. Odom is an unrestriced FA. He can go anywhere he wants. Lakers have no say. What the Lakers have are his bird rights, so they can offer him a big contract > than the MLE regardless of their cap. The arguement is they wont, because they are already at $75mm and Odom costs them double what they pay because of the tax and he's the 4th option on the team.

Most GMs not willing to pay $15-$20mm for the 4th option on their team.

The motivation for Odom to come here under a 2 year MLE contract is 1) the Knicks are getting 2) he's from the area 3)MDA's system

After 2 years he will be 32 and probably be averaging 20/8/5 in 30 minutes a game or there about. That puts him in great position to get one last fat deal either from the Knicks (who always pay) or someone else.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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2/25/2009  1:34 PM
nobody is going to be signed for multiple years this summer. so forget odom coming to ny unless he accepts a 1 year deal. they are not going to jeopardize 2010 and nate will be a casualty.
djsunyc
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2/25/2009  1:34 PM
plus, i could see him going to detroit for 3 years...
BRIGGS
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2/27/2009  7:58 AM
Anyone watch the Lakers last night still call LO soft or no good or whatever? The guy is playing awesome on both ends.

And to expound--the Lakers are built just like the Bulls. They have 3 7 footers[had 4 at one point] three PF's and depth athleticism diversity in skills every where. They seem to get talent and usage from any spot om the team--there is no wasted roster space. I cant tell you how good LO would be for this team.
RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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2/27/2009  2:11 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

nobody is going to be signed for multiple years this summer. so forget odom coming to ny unless he accepts a 1 year deal. they are not going to jeopardize 2010 and nate will be a casualty.

it's pretty clear Donnie's not gonna muck up the 2010 plan for anyone short of a superstar player... i dunno why people waste their time with alternate plans when they know it won't go down like that.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BRIGGS
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2/27/2009  3:32 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by djsunyc:

nobody is going to be signed for multiple years this summer. so forget odom coming to ny unless he accepts a 1 year deal. they are not going to jeopardize 2010 and nate will be a casualty.

it's pretty clear Donnie's not gonna muck up the 2010 plan for anyone short of a superstar player... i dunno why people waste their time with alternate plans when they know it won't go down like that.

You know what is funny--Lamar odom is a superstar especially in this type of system. If anyone doubts what I say I would suggest watching a tape of last night's Lakers game. The guy is the most versatile PF in the league with skills that are off the charts. He's not Lebron James but he's in the next tier under him--he's better than Joe Johnson. I don't know what the Lakers are going to do. It will be interesting how things play out but they are so far up in the salary cap as is--and Kobe can opt for a raise as well. It depends on what the few teams with cap space do. After that he really may be looking at some kind of MLE deal with an early opt out--maybe the Lakers sign him to a 1 year 10mm $ deal but it would cost them 20mm$. If I was Lamar I would take the FULL MLE with an early opt out if there is no money on the table. Secure 35mm$ and see if I can get a better deal IF the economy changes in the next 2 years. the MLE might look like a fat contract in 3 years.
RIP Crushalot😞
nyk4ever
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2/27/2009  3:34 PM
In one ear out the other TMS.
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TMS
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2/27/2009  4:38 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by djsunyc:

nobody is going to be signed for multiple years this summer. so forget odom coming to ny unless he accepts a 1 year deal. they are not going to jeopardize 2010 and nate will be a casualty.

it's pretty clear Donnie's not gonna muck up the 2010 plan for anyone short of a superstar player... i dunno why people waste their time with alternate plans when they know it won't go down like that.

You know what is funny--Lamar odom is a superstar especially in this type of system. If anyone doubts what I say I would suggest watching a tape of last night's Lakers game. The guy is the most versatile PF in the league with skills that are off the charts. He's not Lebron James but he's in the next tier under him--he's better than Joe Johnson. I don't know what the Lakers are going to do. It will be interesting how things play out but they are so far up in the salary cap as is--and Kobe can opt for a raise as well. It depends on what the few teams with cap space do. After that he really may be looking at some kind of MLE deal with an early opt out--maybe the Lakers sign him to a 1 year 10mm $ deal but it would cost them 20mm$. If I was Lamar I would take the FULL MLE with an early opt out if there is no money on the table. Secure 35mm$ and see if I can get a better deal IF the economy changes in the next 2 years. the MLE might look like a fat contract in 3 years.

Donnie Walsh is not gonna sacrifice the 2010 plan for Lamar Odom, i'm sorry to break the news to you... Walsh is on a mission to free up as much cap space as possible right now... don't u see the pattern w/every acquisition he's made since taking this job? no contracts that extend past 2010... zero... he values that flexibility over any player short of superstar level talent & indicated as much with every public statement he's made since he got here... there's 1 way Lamar Odom will ever become a Knick, & that's if some type of sign & trade is made w/the Knicks... they're not gonna straight out sign the guy unless they dump a ton of cap before doing so.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
oohah
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2/28/2009  8:30 AM
Lamar Odom BRIGGS?

Man, I want you to join up with Fantasy basketball, because I could trade you any player who just played hot for 3 weeks!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
BRIGGS
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2/28/2009  8:55 AM
Posted by oohah:

Lamar Odom BRIGGS?

Man, I want you to join up with Fantasy basketball, because I could trade you any player who just played hot for 3 weeks!

oohah

Since he was inserted into the starting line up--he has led the entire NBA in rebounding at over 14 a game. That isn't a hot streak stat--that is an effort stat. LA is also 13-2 18 points 14 reb 3 assists and a block--not bad--I think that could help any team:) how much could that help this team. It would bring it to another level.
RIP Crushalot😞
Bonn1997
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2/28/2009  9:04 AM
Why was Lamar ever coming off the bench? Why on earth would you start Luke Walton ahead of him?

Briggs, since you watch them a lot, do you think Lamar is better than Pau? I think Lamar could start at the 3, but if they insisted on playing him at the 4, I'm not even convinced that Pau is better than Lamar and that Pau should have been the one starting with Lamar coming off the bench.
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