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RealGM: Which Teams Stand In The Way Of The Knicks Keeping Lee?
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franco12
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1/30/2009  2:03 PM
why does Portland want Lee? They have Oden and LaMarcus up front. Isn't that enough? Is Isiah going to be their GM so they want to pay $11MM for a back up?
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MS
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1/30/2009  4:59 PM
I don't see Detriot making a big play for Lee at the money he wants. If the Thunder make him a nice offer that's a better situation. Durant will be one of the best players in the league in a few years, and Westbrook is special, however they may want to make a run at someone like bosh in a couple of years and just develop their young talent. I can see them adding the kid from OK in the draft.

No one is offering 11 million in this market, I think we resign him for 5 years at 9 per. I can see Portland going after nate, or atlanta though
BRIGGS
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1/30/2009  7:46 PM
Lee will get a 6 year 72mm$ offer--that is what Ok4 got and he comps higher
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crzymdups
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1/30/2009  8:44 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Lee will get a 6 year 72mm$ offer--that is what Ok4 got and he comps higher

who is gonna pony up that much money? exxon mobile?
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Anji
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1/30/2009  10:35 PM
Did I just read that Aldrige and an Expiring is fair Value for Lee & Dumping Curry??? OMG



If Walsh trades Lee, he better get something super star lite, because if he doesn't it appears the back lash will be violent. Whether it be justiced or not.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
30andOverClub
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1/31/2009  8:39 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Lee will get a 6 year 72mm$ offer--that is what Ok4 got and he comps higher

If Lee gets 6 years, it's because the Knicks signed and traded him. The Knicks are the only team that can give Lee a 6 year deal. Any other team can give him 5 years max. You know this.
BRIGGS
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1/31/2009  10:58 AM
Posted by 30andOverClub:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Lee will get a 6 year 72mm$ offer--that is what Ok4 got and he comps higher

If Lee gets 6 years, it's because the Knicks signed and traded him. The Knicks are the only team that can give Lee a 6 year deal. Any other team can give him 5 years max. You know this.



This is what I think the Knicks will offer him. I think it's fair value if you look at comps.

If he does a front loaded 5 year 68mm$ contract from another team---the Knicks could be looking at a 15mm$ figure for 2010. Teams aren't stupid.
RIP Crushalot😞
nyk4ever
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1/31/2009  11:11 AM
I still would not match any contract Lee gets that is a penny over 10 million.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bonn1997
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1/31/2009  11:14 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by 30andOverClub:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Lee will get a 6 year 72mm$ offer--that is what Ok4 got and he comps higher

If Lee gets 6 years, it's because the Knicks signed and traded him. The Knicks are the only team that can give Lee a 6 year deal. Any other team can give him 5 years max. You know this.



This is what I think the Knicks will offer him. I think it's fair value if you look at comps.

If he does a front loaded 5 year 68mm$ contract from another team---the Knicks could be looking at a 15mm$ figure for 2010. Teams aren't stupid.

That's A LOT of money in a terrible economy for a team to have to come up with in the 1st year.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 01-31-2009 11:15 AM]
30andOverClub
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1/31/2009  12:49 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by 30andOverClub:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Lee will get a 6 year 72mm$ offer--that is what Ok4 got and he comps higher

If Lee gets 6 years, it's because the Knicks signed and traded him. The Knicks are the only team that can give Lee a 6 year deal. Any other team can give him 5 years max. You know this.



This is what I think the Knicks will offer him. I think it's fair value if you look at comps.

If he does a front loaded 5 year 68mm$ contract from another team---the Knicks could be looking at a 15mm$ figure for 2010. Teams aren't stupid.

Who's going to be $15MM under the cap to offer him this deal?

Do you think Biedrins is a comp to David Lee, 13.2 points, 12.0 rebounds, 1.6 blocks a game? 55.8% from the field? Hoopshype has him at 6 years, $54MM against the cap, though I know incentives are involved some how.

Also, David has said a million times that he wants to stay with the Knicks. He wants to be here when they turn it around. Maybe I'm naive but I believe him, so why would he sign a contract that would prevent them from resigning him? Wouldn't it be more likely that he would first figure out his market value and ask the Knicks to sign him to a contract which is beneficial to their cap situation?
toodarkmark
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1/31/2009  1:07 PM
7.5, 8.5, 9.5, 10.5, 11.5, 12.5 = 6 years, 60 million. Only 7.5 against the cap in 2010. The biggest problem is moving Eddy Curry, and what to do about Jeffries.

I've argued many times, but to move an almost all-star, and a leader like David Lee, just for the possibility of getting someone is the height of stupidity. Isiah like stupidity.
I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
King1
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1/31/2009  1:36 PM
David is better than Biedrins his stat are inflated because they lead the league in possesions per game and Biedrins cant make anything outside of two feet and cant shoot free throws. You can say he plays defense because Lee got him for 37.
Bonn1997
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1/31/2009  1:47 PM
Posted by toodarkmark:

7.5, 8.5, 9.5, 10.5, 11.5, 12.5 = 6 years, 60 million. Only 7.5 against the cap in 2010. The biggest problem is moving Eddy Curry, and what to do about Jeffries.

I've argued many times, but to move an almost all-star, and a leader like David Lee, just for the possibility of getting someone is the height of stupidity. Isiah like stupidity.
Are you allowed to allocate the money annually in that fashion? I know you can backload contracts but I'm not sure you can do it that drastically.
BRIGGS
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1/31/2009  2:00 PM
Posted by 30andOverClub:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by 30andOverClub:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Lee will get a 6 year 72mm$ offer--that is what Ok4 got and he comps higher

If Lee gets 6 years, it's because the Knicks signed and traded him. The Knicks are the only team that can give Lee a 6 year deal. Any other team can give him 5 years max. You know this.



This is what I think the Knicks will offer him. I think it's fair value if you look at comps.

If he does a front loaded 5 year 68mm$ contract from another team---the Knicks could be looking at a 15mm$ figure for 2010. Teams aren't stupid.

Who's going to be $15MM under the cap to offer him this deal?

Do you think Biedrins is a comp to David Lee, 13.2 points, 12.0 rebounds, 1.6 blocks a game? 55.8% from the field? Hoopshype has him at 6 years, $54MM against the cap, though I know incentives are involved some how.

Also, David has said a million times that he wants to stay with the Knicks. He wants to be here when they turn it around. Maybe I'm naive but I believe him, so why would he sign a contract that would prevent them from resigning him? Wouldn't it be more likely that he would first figure out his market value and ask the Knicks to sign him to a contract which is beneficial to their cap situation?



A fair way to evaluate David Lee is to look at his numbers post trade. Basically we are looking at a 17.5--13.5--3 assists player shooting 60%. If you were Lee's agent--what would you ask the Knicks for?
I would ask for 13.5mm a year or roughly 6 years 81mm and would be willing to negotiate down to 75 or darn close to it. If not I would tell my client to take the QO as there will be 20 clubs with a great deal of cap space the next year. You KNOW that is what the agent will do--in fact the agent might ask for the maximum--I think he can clearly do that.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 01-31-2009 2:10 PM]
RIP Crushalot😞
30andOverClub
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1/31/2009  2:12 PM
Posted by King1:

David is better than Biedrins his stat are inflated because they lead the league in possesions per game and Biedrins cant make anything outside of two feet and cant shoot free throws. You can say he plays defense because Lee got him for 37.

And Lee's stats AREN'T inflated? The Knicks are 2ND in number of possessions.

Biedrins: 6 years, $54MM, $62MM including incentives
Al Jefferson: 5 years, $65MM
Troy Murphy: 6 years, $58MM
Jamison: 4 years, $50MM
Boozer: 6 years, $68MM (a while ago I know)

Also, someone's salary is not what they're worth. Some people are overpaid, some underpaid. If, for example, a team thinks that Okafor is overpaid, why would they give David the same contract if they think his value is the same?

Further, there's the possibility that the following free agent forwards will be available at the end of the year: Boozer (unrestricted), Millsap (restricted), Odom (unrestricted), Drew Gooden (unrestricted), Varejo (unrestricted).

Other players that should be available: Artest (unrestricted), Marion (unrestricted), Turkoglu (unrestricted), Iverson (unrestricted), Okur (unrestricted), Ben Gordon (unrestricted), Felton (restricted).

So, these few teams that are far enough under the cap to screw the Knicks would need:

a. David to sign a contract which would screw the Knicks despite his desire to stay in New York.

b. To sign few or no additional free agents.

c. To pass over the other options on the market and consider him the premier free agent, rather than directing their dollars at someone else.

d. Be willing to have their money tied up into David for up to 7 days while the Knicks get the chance to match. As opposed to making offers to the numerous unrestricted free agents.

Can it happen? Sure. But I don't think it's nearly as likely as all of the worry warts would have you believe.
nyk4ever
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1/31/2009  2:16 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:


A fair way to evaluate David Lee is to look at his numbers post trade. Basically we are looking at a 17.5--13.5--3 assists player shooting 60%. If you were Lee's agent--what would you ask the Knicks for?
I would ask for 13.5mm a year or roughly 6 years 81mm and would be willing to negotiate down to 75 or darn close to it. If not I would tell my client to take the QO as there will be 20 clubs with a great deal of cap space the next year. You KNOW that is what the agent will do--in fact the agent might ask for the maximum--I think he can clearly do that.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 01-31-2009 2:10 PM]

And if I were the Knicks I would laugh in the agents face.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
30andOverClub
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1/31/2009  2:28 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:


A fair way to evaluate David Lee is to look at his numbers post trade. Basically we are looking at a 17.5--13.5--3 assists player shooting 60%. If you were Lee's agent--what would you ask the Knicks for?
I would ask for 13.5mm a year or roughly 6 years 81mm and would be willing to negotiate down to 75 or darn close to it. If not I would tell my client to take the QO as there will be 20 clubs with a great deal of cap space the next year. You KNOW that is what the agent will do--in fact the agent might ask for the maximum--I think he can clearly do that.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 01-31-2009 2:10 PM]

So, what you're saying is that we should be blind to HOW he gets those numbers. Not that he's a bad player, I hope he stays. Are his stats inflated due to pace? Yes. He also doesn't create his own offense for the most part, scoring regularly off of put-backs and pick-and-rolls. Stats should not be considered in a vacuum.

Walsh has also already indicated that he would likely let the market dictate Lee's contract value. So, if his agent asks for something insane, Walsh will ask them to go to the market to determine his value. Per my previous post, I think it's highly unlikely Lee will get any offer that the Knicks won't want to match.

And waiting till 2010? He'll lose MILLIONs. His qualifying offer is $2.7MM, as opposed to $10MM or so he'd make his first year. Also, there are 20 teams with cap space NOW. Lots of players will be signed and extended between now and 2010. That will eat cap space. These teams will also be looking to sign LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Joe Johnson, Amare, and a bunch of other players. The economy might cause the salary cap to contract, per your own words. There's no guarantee there will be more money available in the summer of 2010, sorry.
Anji
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1/31/2009  2:34 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by toodarkmark:

7.5, 8.5, 9.5, 10.5, 11.5, 12.5 = 6 years, 60 million. Only 7.5 against the cap in 2010. The biggest problem is moving Eddy Curry, and what to do about Jeffries.

I've argued many times, but to move an almost all-star, and a leader like David Lee, just for the possibility of getting someone is the height of stupidity. Isiah like stupidity.
Are you allowed to allocate the money annually in that fashion? I know you can backload contracts but I'm not sure you can do it that drastically.

You can only raise a players contract by 10.5%. So for Lee to get a 1million dollar raise from year to year, he has to have about a 10 million dollar a year contract. The only way I've seen teams get around this by paying players on a decreasing scale( Kirk Hinrinch) or pay them an average of there total contract in every year( Boris Diaw).

So you can't pay Lee 7.5 million and give him a raise of 1 million dollars. So basically you would have to sign Lee for Less money then he wants to have him making less then 10million in 2010.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
BRIGGS
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1/31/2009  3:40 PM
Posted by 30andOverClub:
Posted by BRIGGS:


A fair way to evaluate David Lee is to look at his numbers post trade. Basically we are looking at a 17.5--13.5--3 assists player shooting 60%. If you were Lee's agent--what would you ask the Knicks for?
I would ask for 13.5mm a year or roughly 6 years 81mm and would be willing to negotiate down to 75 or darn close to it. If not I would tell my client to take the QO as there will be 20 clubs with a great deal of cap space the next year. You KNOW that is what the agent will do--in fact the agent might ask for the maximum--I think he can clearly do that.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 01-31-2009 2:10 PM]

So, what you're saying is that we should be blind to HOW he gets those numbers. Not that he's a bad player, I hope he stays. Are his stats inflated due to pace? Yes. He also doesn't create his own offense for the most part, scoring regularly off of put-backs and pick-and-rolls. Stats should not be considered in a vacuum.

Walsh has also already indicated that he would likely let the market dictate Lee's contract value. So, if his agent asks for something insane, Walsh will ask them to go to the market to determine his value. Per my previous post, I think it's highly unlikely Lee will get any offer that the Knicks won't want to match.

And waiting till 2010? He'll lose MILLIONs. His qualifying offer is $2.7MM, as opposed to $10MM or so he'd make his first year. Also, there are 20 teams with cap space NOW. Lots of players will be signed and extended between now and 2010. That will eat cap space. These teams will also be looking to sign LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Joe Johnson, Amare, and a bunch of other players. The economy might cause the salary cap to contract, per your own words. There's no guarantee there will be more money available in the summer of 2010, sorry.
I hope you don't work for the Knicks nor do I hope this is the path the Knicks take. Pay the man fair value and don't put it in someone else's hands or we will lose a great player for nothing and we cant afford to do that. A team will frontload a 5 year 65mm$ contract that will make 2010 likely a 15mm number.
RIP Crushalot😞
Anji
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1/31/2009  4:16 PM
I don't Lee is worth that money. He is still the same player he was last year getting 35minutes and a boost from 7seconds or Less being the only low post player on the team. Unless you say Lee was worth that last year, then he shouldn't be getting more then what an Okur or Gooden made IMO.


I would S&T Lee, it would be foolish to pay him that money, then in one year move him to the bench to be the sixth man.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
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