[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Playoffs or Lottery??
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum


Author Poll
eViL
Posts: 5412
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
It's time for the great debate again -- which would you prefer:
I want the Knicks to make the playoffs
I want the Knicks to have a better lottery position
View Results


Page 5 of 6 « First‹ Previous 3  4  5  6 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
1/29/2009  1:03 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by TMS:

i ain't angry bro... i've actually been pretty mild lately... just don't agree w/the predominant opinion around here that making the playoffs is all that important for us this season... sometimes going against the grain will make people think u'r being contentious but i've been avoiding the personal attacks for the most part.

btw, u'r still a douchebag.

Stop being so angry TMS. I can see the fire coming from your font. Just admit you're wrong and submit to the great Allanfan20.

i've remained pretty consistent all year long w/my expectations for this team & i don't plan on waivering now just because we're still in the playoff hunt this year... i said playoffs was meaningless this season, i just wanted to see Walsh free up cap space & give the young guys their run, & so far he's done that... i want him to continue to do it... cabeeshee?

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
AUTOADVERT
sebstar
Posts: 25698
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 6/2/2002
Member: #249
USA
1/29/2009  1:03 PM
Posted by TMS:

i ain't angry bro... i've actually been pretty mild lately... just don't agree w/the predominant opinion around here that making the playoffs is all that important for us this season... sometimes going against the grain will make people think u'r being contentious but i've been avoiding the personal attacks for the most part.

btw, u'r still a douchebag.

Its not that I disagree with your theory in a practical sense, but it just doesnt fit our situation right now. I'm not dumping Lee and Nate for picks in a weak draft. Just not happening. If you had asked me this question last year around this time, hell yeah.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
1/29/2009  1:07 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by TMS:

i ain't angry bro... i've actually been pretty mild lately... just don't agree w/the predominant opinion around here that making the playoffs is all that important for us this season... sometimes going against the grain will make people think u'r being contentious but i've been avoiding the personal attacks for the most part.

btw, u'r still a douchebag.
Its not that I disagree with your theory in a practical sense, but it just doesnt fit our situation right now. I'm not dumping Lee and Nate for picks in a weak draft. Just not happening. If you had asked me this question last year around this time, hell yeah.

what's the difference between this year & last year other than the fact u could probably get back more for Lee & Nate in a trade now that both of them are playing well? doesn't it make sense to sell high rather than low when ur talking about good young talent? it's not like these are Zach & Jamal we're talking about here who both had contracts we really wanted to get rid of... if u trade Lee & Nate u stand to gain some very good picks w/which u can rebuild ur franchise with... aren't we rebuilding? or has that suddenly changed to now being make the playoffs at all costs?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
1/29/2009  1:08 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by sebstar:

Trading Nate and Lee for picks is dangerous and ridiculous. It will stunt out growth and put us on that Atlanta Hawks type lottery treadmill.

Not only is this draft weak, but its by nature a complete crapshoot. Again, Nate and Lee are still hitting their prime, they have not reached their career apex.

i think it's a pretty deep draft myself... maybe lacking in the obvious superstar calibre guys like the Lebron draft class was stocked with, but i can easily some D Lee & Nate level players coming out of this year's draft class.

First of all, I didn't think I hurled anything personal at you, but if I did -- sorry. Not intended.

Second, if you think this is a deep draft coming up, then draft position is of even less importance.

Third, what are we going to trade Nate and Lee for? What do we want? Picks and expirings right? Well, who's gonna give us a pick we like? A losing team. Why would a losing team trade for either Nate or Lee? I don't see it. I see winning teams wanting to boost their firepower adding Nate. Or a winner in need of another solid big adding Lee. But then what? The pick you get in return sucks. Walsh is in a very tricky situation.

If they tore it up, I wouldn't cry about it. But as for right now, the team as currently constructed, I'm down to see some playoffs.
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
1/29/2009  1:13 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by sebstar:

Trading Nate and Lee for picks is dangerous and ridiculous. It will stunt out growth and put us on that Atlanta Hawks type lottery treadmill.

Not only is this draft weak, but its by nature a complete crapshoot. Again, Nate and Lee are still hitting their prime, they have not reached their career apex.

i think it's a pretty deep draft myself... maybe lacking in the obvious superstar calibre guys like the Lebron draft class was stocked with, but i can easily some D Lee & Nate level players coming out of this year's draft class.

First of all, I didn't think I hurled anything personal at you, but if I did -- sorry. Not intended.

Second, if you think this is a deep draft coming up, then draft position is of even less importance.

Third, what are we going to trade Nate and Lee for? What do we want? Picks and expirings right? Well, who's gonna give us a pick we like? A losing team. Why would a losing team trade for either Nate or Lee? I don't see it. I see winning teams wanting to boost their firepower adding Nate. Or a winner in need of another solid big adding Lee. But then what? The pick you get in return sucks. Walsh is in a very tricky situation.

If they tore it up, I wouldn't cry about it. But as for right now, the team as currently constructed, I'm down to see some playoffs.

i wasn't saying u did bro... i just don't think i'm trying to act like i got all the answers, that's all... we're all just voicing opinions like i said... the only one who is gonna be right or wrong when it's all said & done is Walsh & that won't be able to be determined til 2010... til then we're all gonna speculate about what we shoulda done, blah blah blah til the cows come home... that's just what we do on a message board... i ain't knocking u for wanting to see the team make the playoffs, i just don't get excited over it anymore myself... my main focus is on putting together a team that can win championships right now.

as for the draft being deep, that's exactly why i think gaining more picks is important.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
sebstar
Posts: 25698
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 6/2/2002
Member: #249
USA
1/29/2009  1:13 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by TMS:

i ain't angry bro... i've actually been pretty mild lately... just don't agree w/the predominant opinion around here that making the playoffs is all that important for us this season... sometimes going against the grain will make people think u'r being contentious but i've been avoiding the personal attacks for the most part.

btw, u'r still a douchebag.
Its not that I disagree with your theory in a practical sense, but it just doesnt fit our situation right now. I'm not dumping Lee and Nate for picks in a weak draft. Just not happening. If you had asked me this question last year around this time, hell yeah.

what's the difference between this year & last year other than the fact u could probably get back more for Lee & Nate in a trade now that both of them are playing well? doesn't it make sense to sell high rather than low when ur talking about good young talent? it's not like these are Zach & Jamal we're talking about here who both had contracts we really wanted to get rid of... if u trade Lee & Nate u stand to gain some very good picks w/which u can rebuild ur franchise with... aren't we rebuilding? or has that suddenly changed to now being make the playoffs at all costs?

Trading them now would signal a full out rebuild and unless we get a top flight pick that is ready to produce now, a la OJ Mayo, then we are probably looking at team that will be 26-56 heading into 2010. Who's going to sign with us?

Plus, Lee is emerging as a stud. He is becoming the type of player that we are seemingly looking to acquire. If he's not in our future plans we can command a significant package for him and Nate.

Let me ask you, what kind of picks are you looking at in return for Lee, because I remember in earlier discussions we didnt see eye-to-eye on his value. I'm looking at a top three.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
1/29/2009  1:19 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by sebstar:

Trading Nate and Lee for picks is dangerous and ridiculous. It will stunt out growth and put us on that Atlanta Hawks type lottery treadmill.

Not only is this draft weak, but its by nature a complete crapshoot. Again, Nate and Lee are still hitting their prime, they have not reached their career apex.

i think it's a pretty deep draft myself... maybe lacking in the obvious superstar calibre guys like the Lebron draft class was stocked with, but i can easily some D Lee & Nate level players coming out of this year's draft class.

First of all, I didn't think I hurled anything personal at you, but if I did -- sorry. Not intended.

Second, if you think this is a deep draft coming up, then draft position is of even less importance.

Third, what are we going to trade Nate and Lee for? What do we want? Picks and expirings right? Well, who's gonna give us a pick we like? A losing team. Why would a losing team trade for either Nate or Lee? I don't see it. I see winning teams wanting to boost their firepower adding Nate. Or a winner in need of another solid big adding Lee. But then what? The pick you get in return sucks. Walsh is in a very tricky situation.

If they tore it up, I wouldn't cry about it. But as for right now, the team as currently constructed, I'm down to see some playoffs.

It's not that the bad teams wouldn't trade for them b/c they are bad and the good teams would trade for them because they need firepower, even if they do. The losing teams wouldn't trade for them, b/c both are restricted free agents and can make big money elsewhere, that the losing teams wouldn't be able to afford to match. That would instantly scare them off. We'd have to get a good player from the real good teams, and I doubt they would be willing to part with those players simply b/c Nate and DLee are RFAs. Heck, even if Nate has low value this Summer, which I doubt, then he can just take the qualifying offer and bolt in 2010.

If the Knicks want to trade those two guys, they better get something good. Mid round picks and expirings aren't good enough.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
1/29/2009  1:21 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by eViL:

The Bulls, with all the lottery picks they have, are behind us in the standings. Rose, Heinrich, Noah, Thomas, Deng, Gordon... Can someone explain this to me? Shouldn't they be champs by now?

i'm guessing they would have been better had they had the cap space to sign 2 superstar players to go along w/some of their young players.

Like when they killed us and signed Ben Wallace?

um, Ben Wallace is not a superstar... but thanks for playing.

And no he's not a superstar, but he was probably the real most valueable player, when they beat the Lakers in the finals and he is a top all star and was, at his FA point, the top defensive player in the NBA. Or at least neck to neck with Camby.

Regardless, the Bulls had all the capspace and picks in the world and didn't do squat with it.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
1/29/2009  1:27 PM
Trading them now would signal a full out rebuild and unless we get a top flight pick that is ready to produce now, a la OJ Mayo, then we are probably looking at team that will be 26-56 heading into 2010. Who's going to sign with us?

Plus, Lee is emerging as a stud. He is becoming the type of player that we are seemingly looking to acquire. If he's not in our future plans we can command a significant package for him and Nate.

Let me ask you, what kind of picks are you looking at in return for Lee, because I remember in earlier discussions we didnt see eye-to-eye on his value. I'm looking at a top three.

top 3 is unrealistic... i would be fine w/a top 8 pick for Lee & a top 15 pick for Nate... w/those picks combined w/our own lottery pick u can easily rebuild the roster w/cheap young talent that are cost controlled for years to come... or u can choose to parlay those picks to a crappy team looking to rebuild for a top 3 pick & take a guy u can possibly build ur franchise around in Blake Griffin... u give urself lots of different options that way.

as for who would want to sign here in 2010... this team wouldn't appeal to prospective FA's? i think it would:

Max FA
Max FA
2009 rookie (Griffin, Jennings, Rubio, Thabeet or Hill - if u parlay the picks)
Gallinari
Chandler
Jefferies
Curry
2010 2nd rd. pick
vet min player
vet min player
vet min player
vet min player

& maybe throw Duhon in there if u can somehow dump Jefferies or Curry's contracts next season... or if u don't parlay the picks u can pick up some nice young depth with 3 of the following:

Patterson
Budinger
S. Curry
Teague
Monroe
Lawal


the difference between my scenario & urs if that u're replacing Lee & Nate instead of a 2nd Max FA, & ur rookie prospect is looking to be just 1 from that second list of prospects i listed

Max FA
Lee
Nate
Gallo
Chandler
Jefferies
Curry
2009 rookie (Teague, Monroe, Mills or Lawal)
2010 2nd rd. pick
vet min player
vet min player
vet min player


i think my team would be more appealing to a Lebron, Bosh or Wade personally.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-29-2009 10:36 AM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
sebstar
Posts: 25698
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 6/2/2002
Member: #249
USA
1/29/2009  1:36 PM
I just cant agree with that approach TMS. Too risky and its not giving those players enough time to develop before 2010.

If I'm going to trade Lee, I want established talent back. BTW, Griffin is not a franchise talent to me. He's more David Lee than anything else. I cant see making serious maneuvers for the likes of him.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
1/29/2009  1:39 PM
Posted by sebstar:

I just cant agree with that approach TMS. Too risky and its not giving those players enough time to develop before 2010.

If I'm going to trade Lee, I want established talent back. BTW, Griffin is not a franchise talent to me. He's more David Lee than anything else. I cant see making serious maneuvers for the likes of him.

it definitely is risky but like i like to say, now is not the time to play it safe IMO... we gotta go drastic on an all out rebuild & do this right like we shoulda done it from the very beginning... that's how i think this team will become a championship team the fastest... i think we definitely need 2 superstars to build around, not just 1, if we ever wanna have any realistic shot at winning a championship.

as for Griffin, i think he can be better than Carlos Boozer.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Vmart
Posts: 31800
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/23/2002
Member: #247
USA
1/29/2009  1:41 PM
I agree with you Isles to some degree. I would like a good tank job but right now I can only see a half azzed tank job. The team currently constructed is actually more talented than most teams they face. Like most I'm not completely sold on 2010 because I don't think LeBron or Wade are going to leave their situations for NY.

Playoff experience is vital. Duhon, Lee and Nate will be resigned, Chandler and Gallinari are the future for the Knicks. Maybe a second tier star like Bosh and Johnson might be part of the NYK future plan. One thing I know from the draft your never guaranteed anything Knicks are cursed with bad luck when it comes to the draft positioning. 7th or 8th seed right now sounds good. Besides there is a lot of season left. And by no circumstance are the Knicks in the playoffs right now. They have a tough week coming up lets see how they handle the Lakers, Cavs and Boston lets not forget the road game in Indy. They could easily be 9 games under the .500 mark and at that point the season would basically be over. But if they come out of the the stretch with a 4-0 record or even a 3-1 record you can't tell me you wouldn't be excited about the KNicks. I know I would be going ape shyt if they pulled out even a 2-2 mark from the next four games. The team has to keep improving if they make the playoffs you have to consider the other aspects of that which is increased value of the current players which could yield draft picks. Learning to win which I think probably is the most important thing in the NBA. Confidence is increased and when a team has confidence they feel like they can accomplish anything. Confident 7th or 8th seed the team can do damage. If the Knicks make the playoffs by default like they did the last time vs Nets then it can be disaster.
eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
1/29/2009  1:41 PM
Posted by TMS:

I think Griffin can be better than Carlos Boozer.

I guess my problem is I know nothing of any prospects.

Anyway, I like DLee as a high-level supporting player. He's solid. Gives effort every night. He can mesh with any type of player because he doesn't need plays called for him and he still gets his. Unless we can trade him for this next-boozer kid, then what else is out there prospect-wise? Seriously, fill me in.
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
1/29/2009  1:42 PM
i think my team would be more appealing to a Lebron, Bosh or Wade personally.

It's just where we'll have to disagree and we wont change our minds here. I those 3 guys are going to be more intrigued by a more proven roster, and a guy finishing his rookie year plus Jared, a possibly retired Curry and Chandler and Gallo isn't enough. I know I wouldn't go to a team like that. If I was LeBron or Bosh or Wade, I'd either want to join one of the other teams, have one of them come to my team, or go to a team like Detroit.

Add in Lee and Nate (Or one of them) and MAYBE Duhon (depending if you can possibly trade Jared), and a team that made it to the playoffs a couple of years in a row, then I think you can really attract a free agent and continue building a contending team from there.

There's no way free agents come to a team in the plan you built, even if they are attracting eachother. They'll just attract them to their own teams. Not to other teams that are just getting off the ground from rebuilding and not from teams that were crappy as hell in seasons that they didn't own a draft pick.

Letting Nate and Lee walk guarantees us that we'll be the worst team in the league next year, and we wont have a pick. Utah will be dancing in it's glory. There's no way in hell that we attract a free agent like that.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
GallOfFame
Posts: 20554
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 11/6/2008
Member: #2320
USA
1/29/2009  1:45 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by GallOfFame:
Posted by eViL:

The Bulls, with all the lottery picks they have, are behind us in the standings. Rose, Heinrich, Noah, Thomas, Deng, Gordon... Can someone explain this to me? Shouldn't they be champs by now?

Have they ever truly addressed their 4 or 5 spot? You can't handicap yourself when assembling a team and they have to an extent. Tell you what they've been to the playoffs more than we have since 04' and are only 1gm behind us at the moment.

[Edited by - GallOfFame on 01-29-2009 02:10 AM]

They've used 2 picks on the 4 or 5 spot, including a #2 overall.

No they picked Hybrids at those spots or let's say had 1 in Aldridge and trade him for a Hybrid and drafted Noah who's not a 5 and really isn't your typical 4.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
1/29/2009  1:46 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by TMS:

I think Griffin can be better than Carlos Boozer.

I guess my problem is I know nothing of any prospects.

Anyway, I like DLee as a high-level supporting player. He's solid. Gives effort every night. He can mesh with any type of player because he doesn't need plays called for him and he still gets his. Unless we can trade him for this next-boozer kid, then what else is out there prospect-wise? Seriously, fill me in.

when i watch that kid play he looks to me like a guaranteed beast in the NBA... he's not w/o his flaws obviously but i think he's gonna be an Allstar w/o question... take a look at some of the statlines he's put up this season w/the Sooners... he's pretty sick dude.

another guy i've liked from the beginning of the season is Patrick Patterson from Kentucky... take a look at some of his clips on Youtube... that is exactly the type of player this team is sorely lacking... a beast down low who can run the court, rebound, block shots, score in the post & finish on the break... i know Lee can do a lot of these things too & i love the guy for his team first attitude, but signing him up means we lose out on any chance to sign a 2nd max guy, & i can't reason to myself how that would be a smarter option for us... anyway, i think u can get Patterson w/any pick that u get from trading Nate Robinson... for Lee i would look for higher lottery.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
1/29/2009  2:10 PM
Posted by TMS:

i ain't angry bro... i've actually been pretty mild lately... just don't agree w/the predominant opinion around here that making the playoffs is all that important for us this season... sometimes going against the grain will make people think u'r being contentious but i've been avoiding the personal attacks for the most part.

btw, u'r still a douchebag.

You don't know what you're missing.

And yes, nyk is still a douchebag.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
nyk4ever
Posts: 41010
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
1/29/2009  2:21 PM
TMS and Isles baffled that Knick fans actually WANT to win.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
newyorknewyork
Posts: 30259
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
1/29/2009  2:24 PM
Our team shouldn't even have this many wins if you look at our current lineup.

Duhon,Nate,Richardson,Chandler,Gallo,Harrington,Thomas,Lee,Jefferies

Richardson,Chandler,Gallo,Thomas,Jefferies are all unreliable weather is because they are young or just have been inconsistent there whole careers or are a scrub.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
martin
Posts: 79941
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
1/29/2009  2:33 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

TMS and Isles baffled that Knick fans actually WANT to win.


post this pic again and Bip bans you.
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Page 5 of 6 « First‹ Previous 3  4  5  6 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Playoffs or Lottery??
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy