Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by GallOfFame:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by tkf:

I have never seen a fan base that will sit and say we have the worst players in the league, and then turn around and blame the coach and GM for not guiding these same guys to 50 wins... LOL... Brown, wilkens, isiah, all failed with these guys. yet somehow the players , in the end are let off the hook...

It's one thing to have a 23 win roster and then win 12 games. Our coach has a 23 win roster and is on pace to win 30.

The yr before last yr with the same usual suspects they were on pace to win 38gms(pre injuries some fans think possible more) with an Inept coach. So 2 yrs removed from talent being that it's a wash between the progression of the younger players vs players traded for you'd think the Elite coach would be on a better pace than 30.

Who is coming in here and winning 35-40 games? Name them. When you are done naming them ask yourself if you thought that before last year Doc Rivers could come in here and win 35-40 games with this roster. And when you are done answering that question ask yourself is it the coach or is it the players?

Do some of you guys think that D'Antoni just got lucky Phoenix? Is he really a bad coach that got lucky with a good roster. I remember LB being disredited in much the same way when he was here.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-01-2009 3:20 PM]

i think if you were the coach, the knicks would win 35-40 games...

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by GallOfFame:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by tkf:

I have never seen a fan base that will sit and say we have the worst players in the league, and then turn around and blame the coach and GM for not guiding these same guys to 50 wins... LOL... Brown, wilkens, isiah, all failed with these guys. yet somehow the players , in the end are let off the hook...

It's one thing to have a 23 win roster and then win 12 games. Our coach has a 23 win roster and is on pace to win 30.

The yr before last yr with the same usual suspects they were on pace to win 38gms(pre injuries some fans think possible more) with an Inept coach. So 2 yrs removed from talent being that it's a wash between the progression of the younger players vs players traded for you'd think the Elite coach would be on a better pace than 30.

Who is coming in here and winning 35-40 games? Name them. When you are done naming them ask yourself if you thought that before last year Doc Rivers could come in here and win 35-40 games with this roster. And when you are done answering that question ask yourself is it the coach or is it the players?

Do some of you guys think that D'Antoni just got lucky Phoenix? Is he really a bad coach that got lucky with a good roster. I remember LB being disredited in much the same way when he was here.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-01-2009 3:20 PM]

i think if you were the coach, the knicks would win 35-40 games...

True, but that comparison is unfair to D'Antoni. Please, compare him to human coaches, not Gods of coaching.

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by GallOfFame:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by tkf:

I have never seen a fan base that will sit and say we have the worst players in the league, and then turn around and blame the coach and GM for not guiding these same guys to 50 wins... LOL... Brown, wilkens, isiah, all failed with these guys. yet somehow the players , in the end are let off the hook...

It's one thing to have a 23 win roster and then win 12 games. Our coach has a 23 win roster and is on pace to win 30.

The yr before last yr with the same usual suspects they were on pace to win 38gms(pre injuries some fans think possible more) with an Inept coach. So 2 yrs removed from talent being that it's a wash between the progression of the younger players vs players traded for you'd think the Elite coach would be on a better pace than 30.

Who is coming in here and winning 35-40 games? Name them. When you are done naming them ask yourself if you thought that before last year Doc Rivers could come in here and win 35-40 games with this roster. And when you are done answering that question ask yourself is it the coach or is it the players?

Do some of you guys think that D'Antoni just got lucky Phoenix? Is he really a bad coach that got lucky with a good roster. I remember LB being disredited in much the same way when he was here.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-01-2009 3:20 PM]

35gms was my absolute Max regardless of roster scenario giving the GM the benefit of the doubt to put the most competitive team on the floor without jeopardizing the cap like he said he would.


Do you feel our coach has got the most out of this roster collectively?

If Pringles is absolved from blame has our GM put the most competitive team on the floor possible?


I'm starting to read more and more from posters even our style of play isn't exciting to watch anymore. Wasn't coach brought here to bring the excitement back? When Isiah was hired initially he brought life back to the Garden.


Where's our coach's X factor. I want this to be clearly outlined and defined. What makes him special and different from the rest?

Gall, there are better coaches out there. Personally, I think Mike D' is a top 5 coach, but he was brought in b/c he's a good coach and he was the best coach available. Lets look at it like this. Do you honestly think Mark Jackson or Avery Johnson would have done better?

Yes, Mike D' gets his share of blame. I think he has a few faults, but they aren't glaring, like this roster, and like I said a hundred times, a hall of fame coach isn't even going to make this team good. We need players.

You can't have a lion teach a housecat how to hunt wildabeast. We need to give Mike D'Antoni the lions!

Posted by Allanfan20:

You can't have a lion teach a housecat how to hunt wildabeast. We need to give Mike D'Antoni the lions!

sure u can teach him... don't mean he won't get wilderbeast shat on his face when he tries tho.

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by GallOfFame:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by GallOfFame:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by tkf:

I have never seen a fan base that will sit and say we have the worst players in the league, and then turn around and blame the coach and GM for not guiding these same guys to 50 wins... LOL... Brown, wilkens, isiah, all failed with these guys. yet somehow the players , in the end are let off the hook...

It's one thing to have a 23 win roster and then win 12 games. Our coach has a 23 win roster and is on pace to win 30.

The yr before last yr with the same usual suspects they were on pace to win 38gms(pre injuries some fans think possible more) with an Inept coach. So 2 yrs removed from talent being that it's a wash between the progression of the younger players vs players traded for you'd think the Elite coach would be on a better pace than 30.

Who is coming in here and winning 35-40 games? Name them. When you are done naming them ask yourself if you thought that before last year Doc Rivers could come in here and win 35-40 games with this roster. And when you are done answering that question ask yourself is it the coach or is it the players?

Do some of you guys think that D'Antoni just got lucky Phoenix? Is he really a bad coach that got lucky with a good roster. I remember LB being disredited in much the same way when he was here.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-01-2009 3:20 PM]

35gms was my absolute Max regardless of roster scenario giving the GM the benefit of the doubt to put the most competitive team on the floor without jeopardizing the cap like he said he would.


Do you feel our coach has got the most out of this roster collectively?

If Pringles is absolved from blame has our GM put the most competitive team on the floor possible?


I'm starting to read more and more from posters even our style of play isn't exciting to watch anymore. Wasn't coach brought here to bring the excitement back? When Isiah was hired initially he brought life back to the Garden.


Where's our coach's X factor. I want this to be clearly outlined and defined. What makes him special and different from the rest?

Absolved from blame???? Why are we blaming anyone at this point and what are we blaming them for? Doing what is expected of them?

As for the excitement, I will say it again, this team will not be exciting for a couple years. They play hard, but losing aint exciting. So sorry, you won't be excited. As for Isiah bringing life back to the garden........You're kidding right?

The first couple of months after the Steph trade New Yorkers were amped stop fooling around. There were some naysayers then but don't deny there was some major optimism going on in 2004.

i think the optimism was brought on by the sheer horror of the Scott Layden regime & the fact that Isiah had a winning name attached to him from his playing days... only natural for NY fans to be optimistic... we soon learned what a fiasco that turned out to be... people are now so horrified from the Isiah regime that they're approaching the Walsh era w/reservation which is completely understandable... what's not understandable is when people start expecting immediate results after the crap that's gone on around here for the past several years & then start questioning the coach & GM when those expectations aren't realized immediately.

Posted by GallOfFame:

Man Up so the thread doesn't have to be bumped!



[Edited by - GallOfFame on 01-12-2009 3:47 PM]

i said 35 then, said 35 after the trades this season, & still holding to 35... that may be a bit optimistic but i think this team is gonna "right the ship" before season's end (if u can even call 35 wins as righting any ship that is)

The early Isiah Optimism was brought on by adding Marbs to a team that was already capable of winning 33-38 games. We made the playoffs and then flamed out and the rest is history. A few more quick, satisfy the fans moves later and we are one of the biggest embarrassments in NBa history. And yet, we learned nothing from it.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by GallOfFame:

Man Up so the thread doesn't have to be bumped!



[Edited by - GallOfFame on 01-12-2009 3:47 PM]

i said 35 then, said 35 after the trades this season, & still holding to 35... that may be a bit optimistic but i think this team is gonna "right the ship" before season's end (if u can even call 35 wins as righting any ship that is)

Being questioned in this thread is the expected pace of 35wins and the fact the team even as constructed at the start of the season wasn't probably a 35win team.


Often times fans put generalizations on player win total impact assuming such player and the average around them is worth so many wins. What is our coach's value in terms of wins with an average roster or even slightly below average? Expansion teams even at their base are about a 30win team. Now add an Elite coach to it how many wins is the team?


Looks like a lot of fans thought the team would be on the other side of 35wins


If you look at the team's losses since the trade we dropped games to Minny, OKC, Indiana, Milwaukee, Chicago. Are these teams clearly better than us factoring roster and coaches? We've lost to Milwaukee 3 times already(1 amidst the trade). If you add 5-6gms in the win column for this team this clearly changes the pace on wins. Our coach can't be this kind of difference?

Posted by GallOfFame:

Posted by Bippity10:

The early Isiah Optimism was brought on by adding Marbs to a team that was already capable of winning 33-38 games. We made the playoffs and then flamed out and the rest is history. A few more quick, satisfy the fans moves later and we are one of the biggest embarrassments in NBa history. And yet, we learned nothing from it.

I was never discussing moves to satisfy the fan base besides maybe cutting ROBLOWS. Regardless both times fans felt a sense of optimism. Isiah was judged immediately after the Marbury trade was made therefore coach and GM are subject to the same immediate criticism.

Don't you think the situations are different considering one was GM and one was coach?