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TMS
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11/25/2008  12:40 AM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Sub, I have a doubt: You a Knicks fan?

Just curious

subzero is putting in an early claim on the "I told you so rights" for 2010.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
AUTOADVERT
Knicksfan
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11/25/2008  12:42 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Knicksfan:

Sub, I have a doubt: You a Knicks fan?

Just curious

subzero is putting in an early claim on the "I told you so rights" for 2010.

I don't care if Im right or wrong as long as the Knicks can get in position to win many championships.
Knicks_Fan
4949
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11/25/2008  12:49 AM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by 4949:


Yeah, you brought this up before. Look at the history you said. Well, we have a shot and that's all I want.

You wanted to pay Lee like a semi-franchise player 3 weeks ago. Now you are ecstatic about salary dumps. A little consistency from day to day please.

oohah

You keep bringing that up. Almost two weeks ago you said two weeks ago. I told you I was half kidding, that I thought he was worth a lot, but not no 9-11 million, if I remember correctly I said hell, I'd pay him 12 mil. but that's nonsense dude. If I understand it correctly, he could ask for as much as 8 mil. and Nate can ask for 5 mil. But we'll see. And one more thing. I have always' been about getting under the cap. And don't start that 'I made it up' crap. I think it was you about a month ago that was making suggestions that I was making crap up and lying. I didn't appreciate that.

Yeah, it was you! You tried to say that I made up the Bynum thread several months ago and I remember making the point about Bynum being the better pick over Frye. The thread was about an update on the latest stats between Bynum and Frye and how Frye basically still sucked. And you went after me on that, when the stats clearly showed who was the better pick.

And it was you about two to three weeks ago, you made a comment about being wrong about Frye, when I mentioned Bynum for some other reason.

I suggest if you don't wanna hear about it, then stop coming after me with this rediculous accusation about being consistent. I been consistent and consistent about changing my mind about people too. Everyone knows it. I was against Nate, and changed my mind. I was against Harrington coming here and changed my mind and I explained why I changed my mind. Etc. Etc. Etc.

[Edited by - 4949 on 11-25-2008 01:03 AM]
I'll never trust this' team again.
kam77
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11/25/2008  10:09 AM
Subzero wasn't saying Randolph+Crawford should've been kept, he's saying we should have gotten more in return.

That said, I don't think we were going to get much more. And you can't hold off trading until the last minute and then hope you get a deal done then (when teams will try to fleece you even harder since there's no time left for alternatives).

Also, disagree that we need a star player in place to secure LeBron. That's why we got D'antoni. D'antoni, and the lure of NYC and of course cap space, are the strategies Walsh is employing to bring LeBron here.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
kam77
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11/25/2008  10:12 AM
subzero - by the way, there was no one who was going to trade a star or good draft picks to us for our long-term contract, no defense playing, 40% shooting chuckers. Just completely get that out of your head.

We might've been able to get more for Craw+Zbo but not THAT much more. Thats where your whole premise falls apart.

Who were we getting for Craw and Zbo? What team was going to give us lottery picks for these guys? Nobody.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Masterplan
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11/25/2008  10:23 AM
just putting this out there... instead of signing two FAs that summer, we could also potentially trade a bunch of our expirings to bring in a good player, and still have enough cap space (and a more appealing roster) to attract a top flight FA. that way, we also avoid the clippers situation where they break the bank for baron and have elton brand fall through. we have a lot of options, ways we can play this. that's all i want.
MS
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11/25/2008  10:35 AM
Are some of you guys ****ing serious? We were barely going to win 38 games this season and you want to keep that core. Get a clue about how to build a team, you think crawford is a good player and going to get you a pick in return or zach really warrants something with his rising contract

For those without a clue. IE anyone bitching about these moves.

Cap Space is Important and you don't blow it otherwise you blow you chance to build a championship team.

Magic (Rashard Lewis) Bobcats (Emeka, Wallace) Wizards (Arenas) Bucks (Michael Redd)that is four teams with no flexibility, only one of which Orlando is a playoff team. You can also add the Pacers to that list as a team that can't attract free agents and is run poorly

The Celtics: Garnett and Allen are starting to slow down a little now and will be two years older and although they are the champs and a playoff team they are not going to be able to keep up with the younger teams, the Hawks nearly took them out last year.

The Sixers : Have a nice core of talent, but Miller will be past his prime and lou williams is what he has to rely to lead the team and everything hinges on Young and Iggy's continued development

The Cavs: A force if Lebron stays, an expansion team if he doesn't

Which leaves: The Pistons, The Hawks, The Raptors (If Bosh leaves they become a lottery team), The Bulls (there GM has no idea what the hell is going on)The Heat, the Nets

So that leaves the east with 6 teams that have assets and if Miami doesn't sign Boozer perhaps Amare or Bosh decides to go the Heat. The Bulls are also a possibility for Lebron if they can clear their cap. So it's a three team race. We have the biggest market and the most popular coach and the ability to generate millions in advertising. You think Bosh or Amare is going to pass dollars up they can't get now?

But again if Bosh and Lebron or some combination decides to come to this team their franchises will be decimated and not recover for years. And who in the east would have a chance of stoping a rotation that includes the following....

Bosh/Jefferies
Chandler/Gallo
Lebron/Nate
Duhon

(Lee will be sacrificed with Eddy Curry)
sebstar
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11/25/2008  11:08 AM
Players from the East are not allowed to go to the Western Conference?
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
MS
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11/25/2008  11:49 AM
They are but why would they with Portland, LA, Spurs and Hornets. They would have a much easier time trying to win a championship in the eastern conference
TMS
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11/25/2008  6:09 PM
Posted by Masterplan:

just putting this out there... instead of signing two FAs that summer, we could also potentially trade a bunch of our expirings to bring in a good player, and still have enough cap space (and a more appealing roster) to attract a top flight FA. that way, we also avoid the clippers situation where they break the bank for baron and have elton brand fall through. we have a lot of options, ways we can play this. that's all i want.

no one's giving up any star players for garbage expirings w/o u giving up picks or good young talent in return... that defeats the whole purpose of holding onto those contracts to begin with.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Masterplan
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11/25/2008  6:41 PM
hey you never know. i'm just saying that the players we could potentially get aren't necessarily just that year's FA class
TMS
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11/25/2008  6:43 PM
there's a lot of different ways u can go about this but the most realistic way for US in this current situation is by having the cap space to attract at least 2 big names here & possibly 3... signing & trading for guys is not really an option cuz that pretty much leaves an empty cupboard behind just to even get 1 bigname star player here... if we miss out on the FA's in 2010 we can always target the ones in 2011, no difference there either way.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Masterplan
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11/25/2008  6:54 PM
we really don't have much to disagree on here...

but, trading some of our expirings next year could actually be a good way to stock that cupboard depending on who may be on the block. and we'd have the cap space to still sign lebron &/or whoever. some of our guys are serviceable players too so we wouldn't necessarily just be taking crap back - duhon, harrington, possibly Q or cuttino if they have anything left in the tank, and don't forget zeke's contract-year all stars tim thomas and jerome! just one way we could go, signing guys outright is definitely the most straightforward way. it will definitely be exciting times
TMS
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11/25/2008  6:55 PM
it definitely will be... we finally have options open to us we could only dream about just a week ago.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
subzero0
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11/25/2008  10:44 PM
Posted by MS:

Are some of you guys ****ing serious? We were barely going to win 38 games this season and you want to keep that core. Get a clue about how to build a team, you think crawford is a good player and going to get you a pick in return or zach really warrants something with his rising contract

For those without a clue. IE anyone bitching about these moves.

Cap Space is Important and you don't blow it otherwise you blow you chance to build a championship team.

Magic (Rashard Lewis) Bobcats (Emeka, Wallace) Wizards (Arenas) Bucks (Michael Redd)that is four teams with no flexibility, only one of which Orlando is a playoff team. You can also add the Pacers to that list as a team that can't attract free agents and is run poorly

The Celtics: Garnett and Allen are starting to slow down a little now and will be two years older and although they are the champs and a playoff team they are not going to be able to keep up with the younger teams, the Hawks nearly took them out last year.

The Sixers : Have a nice core of talent, but Miller will be past his prime and lou williams is what he has to rely to lead the team and everything hinges on Young and Iggy's continued development

The Cavs: A force if Lebron stays, an expansion team if he doesn't

Which leaves: The Pistons, The Hawks, The Raptors (If Bosh leaves they become a lottery team), The Bulls (there GM has no idea what the hell is going on)The Heat, the Nets

So that leaves the east with 6 teams that have assets and if Miami doesn't sign Boozer perhaps Amare or Bosh decides to go the Heat. The Bulls are also a possibility for Lebron if they can clear their cap. So it's a three team race. We have the biggest market and the most popular coach and the ability to generate millions in advertising. You think Bosh or Amare is going to pass dollars up they can't get now?

But again if Bosh and Lebron or some combination decides to come to this team their franchises will be decimated and not recover for years. And who in the east would have a chance of stoping a rotation that includes the following....

Bosh/Jefferies
Chandler/Gallo
Lebron/Nate
Duhon

(Lee will be sacrificed with Eddy Curry)

Zach Randolph is a 20 & 10 power forward. Are you telling me we couldnt get more than Fugazy and Coronary Mobley? Come on man, get real.
GKFv2
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11/25/2008  10:45 PM
Zach Randolph is the Ricky Davis of PF's. If there were better offers out there, Walsh would have taken them, don't you think?
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
subzero0
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11/25/2008  10:55 PM
Posted by GKFv2:

Zach Randolph is the Ricky Davis of PF's. If there were better offers out there, Walsh would have taken them, don't you think?

Not necessarily. The offers would have been there had Walsh waited until before the trade deadline or post-season after Zach's stock continues to skyrocket because of D'Antoni's system.

At mid-season teams that arent doing as well as they had hoped start to worry about missing the playoffs and start to panic. After the season is over teams want to shake things up. Those are the times you strike to get more value than you have back in return.

Trading down at anytime is stupid. You trade up to stock assets and then trade the assets for fa's (via sign and trade) that wont get as much money if they went out on the market. Thats how good teams get better. Then and only then can you sign someone else to the team. They would be attracted by the sign and traded player.
Knicksfan
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11/25/2008  11:03 PM
Posted by subzero0:
Posted by GKFv2:

Zach Randolph is the Ricky Davis of PF's. If there were better offers out there, Walsh would have taken them, don't you think?

Not necessarily. The offers would have been there had Walsh waited until before the trade deadline or post-season after Zach's stock continues to skyrocket because of D'Antoni's system.

At mid-season teams that arent doing as well as they had hoped start to worry about missing the playoffs and start to panic. After the season is over teams want to shake things up. Those are the times you strike to get more value than you have back in return.

Trading down at anytime is stupid. You trade up to stock assets and then trade the assets for fa's (via sign and trade) that wont get as much money if they went out on the market. Thats how good teams get better. Then and only then can you sign someone else to the team. They would be attracted by the sign and traded player.

There are always risks in every decision you take. Even Walsh said he maybe could've gotten more out of both guys down the road, but since that is never written in stone he decided to take the risk now. In the end he did what is best for his plan, a plan that can get done with patience and intelligent trades.

He took the risk and made a good trade that was needed. He didn't risk Crawford or Zach getting injured and ruining the plan. Look at Curry, until he comes back Walsh can't do nothing about him. Once he does be sure he will get many calls and will make another trade.
Knicks_Fan
subzero0
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11/25/2008  11:04 PM
Compare the trade the Nets have made to get ready for LeBron and then look at the trades we made. If you can see the difference then you will understand what I am saying. Even though the Nets may not get LeBron they have made some very smart moves to prepare for the summer of 2010.
sebstar
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11/25/2008  11:05 PM
Posted by subzero0:

Compare the trade the Nets have made to get ready for LeBron and then look at the trades we made. If you can see the difference then you will understand what I am saying. Even though the Nets may not get LeBron they have made some very smart moves to prepare for the summer of 2010.

Yi for Jefferson (a very good, very marketable player in his prime) is a good move to you?
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
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