Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by mattshaw78:

I don't know who to vote for? If you vote republican you are making the rich richer. If you vote democrats they always stress change and do this and do that but where is the money coming from? From us which means higher taxes. Either way you lose.

I think this is the thought going through the minds of many undecideds. I personally don't care if the rich get richer, we are all trying to get richer. We just need to create an environment where the rich don't get richer at everyone else's expense. Problem is that half of our government are just as rich as "the rich" so why would they change anything.

Posted by loweyecue:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by mattshaw78:

I don't know who to vote for? If you vote republican you are making the rich richer. If you vote democrats they always stress change and do this and do that but where is the money coming from? From us which means higher taxes. Either way you lose.

I think this is the thought going through the minds of many undecideds. I personally don't care if the rich get richer, we are all trying to get richer. We just need to create an environment where the rich don't get richer at everyone else's expense. Problem is that half of our government are just as rich as "the rich" so why would they change anything.

I have to say that if you assume the total amount of wealth to be constant then for the rich to get richer someone has to get poorer a zero sum game, no? And inspite of all the tax cuts and wanton lending the total amount of wealth has barely grown over the last eight years under Bush. So the system of making the rich people richer in order to obtain economic stability is flawed at its core.

As I argue this with you I tooo feel remarkable conflicted, because I am equal parts socialist and capitalist. So this is really hard for me. The biggest argument for the insane amount of money paid to these CEOs is that you need to do that in order to entice top talent etc. Now Richard Fuld just showed us what 350 Million worth of "top talent" is worth.

The real issues to me is that this type of compensation can be tied to "performance" and it could still mean that the so called performance meant screwing our futures twenty times over a few years down the road. I do not support the idea of "rich people getting richer" especially when everyone else is getting there future mortgaged to do it. Finance is extremely complicated and lots of otehrwise smart people dont have a clue about what is really going on. So, I think that we have to take one of two positions: Let markets settle everything, so that would mean no bailouts, no interventions let the greedy bastards pay. OR we have full regulation where we have people withing government and Congress() that understand how these things work.

If we settle for the alternating dance between regulation and deregulation then we are basically saying its OK for the Finance guys to scam the entire country every ten or 15 years and the total debt will keep growing especially when we hit the regulation phase. Here is why I say "scam" --

1. Absolutely crappy companies IPO for millions during dotcom bubble fuelled by "Analyst opinions"
2. Enron -- Enuff said -(Trading in Wind futures with grandma's money and selling their own position while telling the employees to keep buying)
3. Subprime loans, Mortgage backed securities, credit default swaps

No sir, if you only regulate when the whole thing is broken then obviously you dont fix anything at all. Regulation should be put in place to make sure things dont break and the "rich" people arent allowed to "scam" the general people in the name of growing the economy or creating jobs.

I knoiw regulation comes with many issues as well, but the socialist in me wants to protect those who cannot understand what's going on from those who knowingly take advantage of that ignorance to increase their personal wealth. That's why I would vote for regulation.

Posted by TheGame:

For all those undecided, you have to realize that we are at a critical moment in American history. Our economy is on the verge of a recession. The world opinion of us is probably the lowest that it has ever been. We are one OPEC decision away from an energy crisis. The healthcare and social security systems need to be fixed long-term rather than the short term fixes of the past. Our foreign policy is in a shambles. And we need to create new jobs to replace the ones that we are losing. Simply put, we are at a stage where we need our government to be proactive, not simply sit back and deal with crisis when they come up.

It is going to take someone willing to think outside the box and view problems from different perspectives. It is going to take someone who is not solely focused on protecting the rich, but also protecting the middle class in this country who are truly the people that keep this system going. It is going to take someone that does not deal with problems through reactionary tactics but whether someone who thinks with a vision for the future. It is going to take someone who is seriously committed to instituting the regulations that will protect us in the future while still allowing companies to grow. Simply put, we need the best and brightest mind to lead this country. Between the McCain/Palin ticket and Obama/Biden ticket, I don't think there is really any competition. Obama is well-educated and well-received among world leaders. Electing him would be a strong statement that America is going to elect its best and brightest, not a D student who has no idea about the economy when the whole world is watching our financial markets or a hockey mom who probably still has not seen the national budget. IMO this election is too important to make the wrong decision or to waste your vote by sitting it out.

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by TheGame:

For all those undecided, you have to realize that we are at a critical moment in American history. Our economy is on the verge of a recession. The world opinion of us is probably the lowest that it has ever been. We are one OPEC decision away from an energy crisis. The healthcare and social security systems need to be fixed long-term rather than the short term fixes of the past. Our foreign policy is in a shambles. And we need to create new jobs to replace the ones that we are losing. Simply put, we are at a stage where we need our government to be proactive, not simply sit back and deal with crisis when they come up.

It is going to take someone willing to think outside the box and view problems from different perspectives. It is going to take someone who is not solely focused on protecting the rich, but also protecting the middle class in this country who are truly the people that keep this system going. It is going to take someone that does not deal with problems through reactionary tactics but whether someone who thinks with a vision for the future. It is going to take someone who is seriously committed to instituting the regulations that will protect us in the future while still allowing companies to grow. Simply put, we need the best and brightest mind to lead this country. Between the McCain/Palin ticket and Obama/Biden ticket, I don't think there is really any competition. Obama is well-educated and well-received among world leaders. Electing him would be a strong statement that America is going to elect its best and brightest, not a D student who has no idea about the economy when the whole world is watching our financial markets or a hockey mom who probably still has not seen the national budget. IMO this election is too important to make the wrong decision or to waste your vote by sitting it out.

When I read the first paragraph and the 1st part of the second paragraph I thought you were going to say vote for Bip. I guess I was wrong.