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Felton for Lee?
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djsunyc
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6/27/2008  12:15 PM
Posted by Uptown:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by VDesai:

Felton is a damn good player. An unselfish, quick PG who can dicatate the pace. Nice A/TO- he'd be an awesome get. Lee/Balkman for Felton is a trade I'd do....

felton is also a very poor shooter: 39/38/41 fg% with a poor assist:turnover ratio.

and the one thing we've seen with d'antoni is that he can not develop a pg. nash was already a high caliber pg. but banks and barbosa, he couldn't make into ones.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-27-2008 11:07 AM]

Nash wasn't an MVP type talent until he played for D'Antoni. Spin it however you want, but give D'antoni credit. Barbosa is what he is and produced for D'Antoni.

i'm not discrediting d'antoni for nash...it was d'antoni's system that allowed nash to control the game more, thus increase his #'s. but nash WAS already a really going pg before he got there.

but every other "pg" or player they tried to make a "pg" hasn't happened under his watch, that's all i'm saying. i see felton fall somewhere into that as well under his guidance. not saying felton is a bad pg, i'm just saying he's not a d'antoni pg.
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VDesai
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6/27/2008  12:15 PM
I've made the pace argument- but for all the extra possessions Phoenix was getting- to increase his average Dallas assists average (in the high 7's) to his Suns assists average (in the 11's), while simulataneously increasing his FG% from 46% to about about 52% is the product of more than just pace. D'Antoni put him in a position to be highly efficient.
franco12
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6/27/2008  12:16 PM
what is the point of adding a stop gap measure to PG for next year?

I think we need to stink it up big next year and guarantee having a top pick.

If Mike needs a PG, lets pick one up from the NBDL cheap.
djsunyc
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6/27/2008  12:17 PM
Posted by martin:

sometimes you can't turn scorers into PGs? Maybe why Knicks passed on Bayless, Gordon.

it's possible...or maybe sometimes d'antoni can't use scoring pg's in his system. like i don't think he could use billups. and could quite possibly be the reason they passed on bayless.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-27-2008 12:19 PM]
djsunyc
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6/27/2008  12:18 PM
Posted by VDesai:

I've made the pace argument- but for all the extra possessions Phoenix was getting- to increase his average Dallas assists average (in the high 7's) to his Suns assists average (in the 11's), while simulataneously increasing his FG% from 46% to about about 52% is the product of more than just pace. D'Antoni put him in a position to be highly efficient.

when you give the ball to finley and let him do his thing in the post or go one on one, or to dirk, there are less assists.

he basically set up all this guys for catch and shoot and dunks...that increases assist totals. most of those guys didn't have to make "basketball moves" before putting it in the basket.

finley and dirk have to make basketball moves which means more than 1 dribble...which takes away the assist.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-27-2008 12:18 PM]
VDesai
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6/27/2008  12:33 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by VDesai:

I've made the pace argument- but for all the extra possessions Phoenix was getting- to increase his average Dallas assists average (in the high 7's) to his Suns assists average (in the 11's), while simulataneously increasing his FG% from 46% to about about 52% is the product of more than just pace. D'Antoni put him in a position to be highly efficient.

when you give the ball to finley and let him do his thing in the post or go one on one, or to dirk, there are less assists.

he basically set up all this guys for catch and shoot and dunks...that increases assist totals. most of those guys didn't have to make "basketball moves" before putting it in the basket.

finley and dirk have to make basketball moves which means more than 1 dribble...which takes away the assist.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-27-2008 12:18 PM]

Whether or not you think he became a better player, how can you argue that D'Antoni didn't put his PG in a better position to succeed given the results? Felton isn't a scrub- he's averaging 7 apg playing with not a lot of great scorers. Put Felton in this situation and he can take a step forward on his results too.
arkrud
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6/27/2008  12:47 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by nyk4ever:

What about Lee + Malik for Felton + Morrison.

we just got Danilo, don't think Morrison fits anymore...

Lee & Nate for Felton & i'd even take a 1st rounder in 2011 from CHA if i had to.
then we could sign someone like Chris Duhon to be a backup PG & end up w/this:

C - Curry / El Turdo
PF - Zach (UGH!) / DG / Fishscrub
SF - Chandler / Balkman
SG - Jamal / Q Rich
PG - Felton / Duhon / Mardy

starting to attain some sort of balance at least... gotta get rid of Zach tho & replace him w/a defensive shotblocker like *cough* KMart *cough* *cough*


This is REALLY SAD linup...
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Uptown
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6/27/2008  1:26 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by VDesai:

I've made the pace argument- but for all the extra possessions Phoenix was getting- to increase his average Dallas assists average (in the high 7's) to his Suns assists average (in the 11's), while simulataneously increasing his FG% from 46% to about about 52% is the product of more than just pace. D'Antoni put him in a position to be highly efficient.

when you give the ball to finley and let him do his thing in the post or go one on one, or to dirk, there are less assists.

he basically set up all this guys for catch and shoot and dunks...that increases assist totals. most of those guys didn't have to make "basketball moves" before putting it in the basket.

finley and dirk have to make basketball moves which means more than 1 dribble...which takes away the assist.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-27-2008 12:18 PM]

Whether or not you think he became a better player, how can you argue that D'Antoni didn't put his PG in a better position to succeed given the results? Felton isn't a scrub- he's averaging 7 apg playing with not a lot of great scorers. Put Felton in this situation and he can take a step forward on his results too.


Totally agree with this. Felton is a pure point guard. I'm sure he will put Felton in position to succeed similar to Nahs, thus Feltons nmbers and game should flourish.

As far as DJ saying D'Antoni hasn't turned Barbosa into a point, well, Barbosa is an undersized two guard. Do you bash LB for not being able to turn Iverson into a pure point, or do you give him credit for putting him at the 2 (like Barbosa) where he and the team can be more succesful?
sebstar
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6/27/2008  1:33 PM
Whatever, Felton's ok. Our roster would be more clearly defined, but adding him would be more lateral movement for this franchise.

How on earth did we screw up Mayo?
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
BRIGGS
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6/27/2008  1:52 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by nyk4ever:

What about Lee + Malik for Felton + Morrison.

we just got Danilo, don't think Morrison fits anymore...

Lee & Nate for Felton & i'd even take a 1st rounder in 2011 from CHA if i had to.
then we could sign someone like Chris Duhon to be a backup PG & end up w/this:

C - Curry / El Turdo
PF - Zach (UGH!) / DG / Fishscrub
SF - Chandler / Balkman
SG - Jamal / Q Rich
PG - Felton / Duhon / Mardy

starting to attain some sort of balance at least... gotta get rid of Zach tho & replace him w/a defensive shotblocker like *cough* KMart *cough* *cough*


This is REALLY SAD linup...

25 win line up
RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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6/27/2008  4:24 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by nyk4ever:

What about Lee + Malik for Felton + Morrison.

we just got Danilo, don't think Morrison fits anymore...

Lee & Nate for Felton & i'd even take a 1st rounder in 2011 from CHA if i had to.
then we could sign someone like Chris Duhon to be a backup PG & end up w/this:

C - Curry / El Turdo
PF - Zach (UGH!) / DG / Fishscrub
SF - Chandler / Balkman
SG - Jamal / Q Rich
PG - Felton / Duhon / Mardy

starting to attain some sort of balance at least... gotta get rid of Zach tho & replace him w/a defensive shotblocker like *cough* KMart *cough* *cough*


This is REALLY SAD linup...

how much different is it that what we have now? i replaced Marbury w/Felton & Nate w/Duhon pretty much... you expecting miracles in year 1 of the Walsh rebuild?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
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6/28/2008  12:13 AM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by VDesai:

I've made the pace argument- but for all the extra possessions Phoenix was getting- to increase his average Dallas assists average (in the high 7's) to his Suns assists average (in the 11's), while simulataneously increasing his FG% from 46% to about about 52% is the product of more than just pace. D'Antoni put him in a position to be highly efficient.

when you give the ball to finley and let him do his thing in the post or go one on one, or to dirk, there are less assists.

he basically set up all this guys for catch and shoot and dunks...that increases assist totals. most of those guys didn't have to make "basketball moves" before putting it in the basket.

finley and dirk have to make basketball moves which means more than 1 dribble...which takes away the assist.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-27-2008 12:18 PM]

Whether or not you think he became a better player, how can you argue that D'Antoni didn't put his PG in a better position to succeed given the results? Felton isn't a scrub- he's averaging 7 apg playing with not a lot of great scorers. Put Felton in this situation and he can take a step forward on his results too.

i'm not arguing that. but outside of nash, who again was really good before getting to pheonix, i don't see evidence that d'antoni can develop a pg (and i'm using barbosa and banks as examples - who were both drafted as pg's).

and i'm not saying felton is a scrub or a bad point guard. i'm saying that i don't think he would work as good as you might think under d'antoni as he would under another coach.
Ira
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6/28/2008  6:16 AM
I don't think there's such a wide area of disagreement on this issue. I think V will agree that Felton isn't as good as Nash and, even in D'Antoni's system, he won't be an mvp candidate - or even close. I think dj will agree that Felton is a pass first type of pg who has good court vision, and as a distributor of the rock, is a definite step up for this roster. Under D'Antoni's system, while he won't be close to Steve Nash, he'll have better results than he did with the Bobcats (what a terrible name for a basketball team).

I like the trade idea. Lee and Felton are two very different players, but when you add up the pluses and minuses, it gives us both good value and good fit.
BigC
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6/28/2008  7:47 AM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by VDesai:

Felton is a damn good player. An unselfish, quick PG who can dicatate the pace. Nice A/TO- he'd be an awesome get. Lee/Balkman for Felton is a trade I'd do....

felton is also a very poor shooter: 39/38/41 fg% with a poor assist:turnover ratio.

and the one thing we've seen with d'antoni is that he can not develop a pg. nash was already a high caliber pg. but banks and barbosa, he couldn't make into ones.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-27-2008 11:07 AM]


He isn't a guy that requires a lot of shots though- and I think he'd be a lot more efficient play at this kind of pace.

As high caliber as Nash was, playing D'Antoni's system increased his assists by about 50%. His FG% also shot up.

As far as developing Barbosa, at some point he was asked to focus on scoring.

Do you still think Felton is better than Tony Parker?

BigC's Knick blogs and Knicks highlights after every Knicks game http://fromthebaseline.com/
BigC
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6/28/2008  7:49 AM
I find it interesting that fans that do not like Jamal Crawford because of his shooting percentage really like Felton who shoots 39%. Which one is it ? Do you care about shooting percentages or not?
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GKFv2
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6/28/2008  8:11 AM
That's kinda dumb. Isn't Jamal a SHOOTING guard? Raymond will just be distributing most of the time while all Jamal does is hoist 30 foot bricks and kill the flow of the offense.

[Edited by - gkfv2 on 06-28-2008 08:12 AM]
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
BigC
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6/28/2008  8:19 AM
Does that mean you are ok with Felton's shooting percentage and turnovers? Felton is not all about passing. He misses easy shots as well as misses midrange shots.
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Anji
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6/28/2008  8:38 AM
^^^ I saw a stats were Felton's worst shooting field is within a couple feet of the basket..... I don't understand how that is possible, but I think he can shoot. He plays on a bad team though. The fact that he gets 7 assists a game with Oakur and Naza at center is probably an over achievement on his part.

Parker first four years in the NBA
9ppg 4ast
15ppg 5ast
14ppg 5ast
16ppg 6ast

Felton first three years
12ppg 5ast
14ppg 7ast
14ppg 7ast

I think Felton could take off, he has the talent and the skills.
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KnicksSince88
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6/28/2008  8:54 AM
I am not crazy about any of the potential PG options on the trade front. I don't want to deal Lee for any of these guys. I wouldn't mind using Lee to try to attempt to get back in the 2010 draft. Lets face it, the draft is our only real pipeline to add talent while we wait these contracts out and not having our pick in 2010 concerns me greatly.

Rather than give up Lee for some of these guys I'd aim much lower and take a flyer on a guy like Luke Ridnour who we could probably get for next to nothing right now. Solid decision maker with a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio in his career who is coming off an awful season and is on the outs over there. Perhaps a change of scenery can help him, perhaps not, but its not a big investment, and he doesn't have huge money or a long contract coming to him (2 years left)

I don't think he would be a bad fit here, I think his game translates well enough to at least give us a decent backup PG option (which we really don't have right now), and who knows, maybe he surprises us
BigC
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6/28/2008  9:34 AM
Posted by Anji:

^^^ I saw a stats were Felton's worst shooting field is within a couple feet of the basket..... I don't understand how that is possible, but I think he can shoot. He plays on a bad team though. The fact that he gets 7 assists a game with Oakur and Naza at center is probably an over achievement on his part.

Parker first four years in the NBA
9ppg 4ast
15ppg 5ast
14ppg 5ast
16ppg 6ast

Felton first three years
12ppg 5ast
14ppg 7ast
14ppg 7ast

I think Felton could take off, he has the talent and the skills.

I hear what you are saying but Felton has to really working on his shooting. I am not even talking about taking deep shots. I am talking about 4 to 5 feet out sometimes. He misses layups when he should be doing the simple shots. I sometimes he looks like he is just flicking up shots.

If the Knicks are going to trade for a guard I rather have Ellis. There is a guard that shoots about 50% for a guard in this league.

I don't have a problem with Felton. I just think as Knick fans we want guys on this team and then when we get here we are disappointed. Are people willing to have Felton on this team with his bad shooting percentage? And are people ready to have him as our point guard of the future. Because if we ever trade for Felton that means the Knicks are saying Felton is our point guard of the future.



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