Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by GKFv2:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by GKFv2:

For the last time, the Knicks DO NOT SAVE ON THE CAP IF THEY BUY OUT A PLAYER.

All they will be doing is paying him to leave. His contract will still be on the books.

They'll save on the agreed buyout amount it just won't be at the figures Briggs would like us to believe. Most players settle on buyouts no less than 80% of what they have remaining on their contract. Their have been exceptions of lower % agreements. So do 80% of whatever he has left divide it by 3 and that's our cap hit. Regardless at this point it wouldn't make since to buy him out.

You still fail to see the point. His contract at $17 million a year would still count against the cap. It wouldn't make a difference.

Don't you remember Shandon Anderson and JYD? They were on the books until 2 years ago.

What your 18-19yr old self fails to see is I do understand and you don't.

Going by the trend in which buyout amounts are agreed upon yes it wouldn't make that big a difference but what Brigss was trying to show in a dream world scenario, in which Zach accepts a buyout for pennies on the dollar.

Let me break it down to you.

Take your Trapper Keeper out of your Backpack and have a seat at your desk. Take out your pen, pencil, and Big Eraser... School is now in session.

Zach is owed $48mil for the next 3yrs. Buyouts are usually agreed to in the neighborhood of 75-80% going buy what Jalen, Mo Taylor, Cassell, Mourning agreed to. Let's say Briggs is right in that Zach accepts a pennies on the dollar buyout Vin Baker style in the amount of 33-50%. That means he'd leave approximately $32mil on the table to be a FA signing anywhere he chooses, pockets $16-24mil. Well that $16-24mil would get spread out over the duration of the remaining yrs of the contract which would be 3yrs. $16-24mil/3 would be approximately $5.3-8mil cap hit for each yr. Well what's the difference between $5.3-8mil vs $14mil he's due in 2008-2009 if he doesn't get bought out. About $6-9mil/yr for each of the remaining 3yrs.

The illogic in this example is that Zach would not accept that low of a buyout, he's not drunk in the head like Gin Baker. The reason Shandon and JYD seemed like they were eating up our cap is because they agreed to a very high figure buyout and they were eating our cap up. They basically got cut so-to-speak, told to go away Steve Francis, Marbury style except for good, while pocketing almost every cent they were owed. Of course we had you know who in charge settling these buyouts. You know the same idiot and owner idiot who wouldn't agree to a buyout with Anucha and got taken to the woodshed in court. Obviously proving they don't know how to negotiate.

Here's proof as to what I'm teaching you and I think Vdesai or Vmart gave an explanation from NBA Buyout Salary Cap Link in a thread 2weeks ago...

13) What is a buyout? Why do people keep talking about them?

At any time, a team and a player can agree to a buyout of that team's remaining salary obligation to that player. The Celtics did this with Vin Baker, and in recent years Chris Webber, Tim Thomas, Steve Francis, Derek Fisher, Troy Hudson, Adonal Foyle, and others have all agreed to buyouts. In a buyout situation, the team pays a player a reduced amount, and allows that player to become an unrestricted free agent (after they clear waivers). The team executing the buyout is responsible for the agreed upon sum, with the cap hit being divided out equally among the remaining years of the contract (ie, in Vin Baker's deal, he had three years on his deal, and he agreed to a $16 million buyout. Thus, the team carried a $5.33 million cap hit on its salary cap for three years.)

http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1136&Itemid=33


Vin Baker had 3yrs left bought out in spring of 03' and here's what his buyout looked like
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bakervi01.html(bottom of page)


I'm going to have to send you home to your mom with an F cause you FAIL. Come back tomorrow to get your cabbage some exercise.



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-24-2008 5:45 PM]

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by GKFv2:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by GKFv2:

For the last time, the Knicks DO NOT SAVE ON THE CAP IF THEY BUY OUT A PLAYER.

All they will be doing is paying him to leave. His contract will still be on the books.

They'll save on the agreed buyout amount it just won't be at the figures Briggs would like us to believe. Most players settle on buyouts no less than 80% of what they have remaining on their contract. Their have been exceptions of lower % agreements. So do 80% of whatever he has left divide it by 3 and that's our cap hit. Regardless at this point it wouldn't make since to buy him out.

You still fail to see the point. His contract at $17 million a year would still count against the cap. It wouldn't make a difference.

Don't you remember Shandon Anderson and JYD? They were on the books until 2 years ago.

What your 18-19yr old self fails to see is I do understand and you don't.

Going by the trend in which buyout amounts are agreed upon yes it wouldn't make that big a difference but what Brigss was trying to show in a dream world scenario, in which Zach accepts a buyout for pennies on the dollar.

Let me break it down to you.

Take your Trapper Keeper out of your Backpack and have a seat at your desk. Take out your pen, pencil, and Big Eraser... School is now in session.

Zach is owed $48mil for the next 3yrs. Buyouts are usually agreed to in the neighborhood of 75-80% going buy what Jalen, Mo Taylor, Cassell, Mourning agreed to. Let's say Briggs is right in that Zach accepts a pennies on the dollar buyout Vin Baker style in the amount of 33-50%. That means he'd leave approximately $32mil on the table to be a FA signing anywhere he chooses, pockets $16-24mil. Well that $16-24mil would get spread out over the duration of the remaining yrs of the contract which would be 3yrs. $16-24mil/3 would be approximately $5.3-8mil cap hit for each yr. Well what's the difference between $5.3-8mil vs $14mil he's due in 2008-2009 if he doesn't get bought out. About $6-9mil/yr for each of the remaining 3yrs.

The illogic in this example is that Zach would not accept that low of a buyout, he's not drunk in the head like Gin Baker. The reason Shandon and JYD seemed like they were eating up our cap is because they agreed to a very high figure buyout and they were eating our cap up. They basically got cut so-to-speak, told to go away Steve Francis, Marbury style except for good, while pocketing almost every cent they were owed. Of course we had you know who in charge settling these buyouts. You know the same idiot and owner idiot who wouldn't agree to a buyout with Anucha and got taken to the woodshed in court. Obviously proving they don't know how to negotiate.

Here's proof as to what I'm teaching you and I think Vdesai or Vmart gave an explanation from NBA Buyout Salary Cap Link in a thread 2weeks ago...

13) What is a buyout? Why do people keep talking about them?

At any time, a team and a player can agree to a buyout of that team's remaining salary obligation to that player. The Celtics did this with Vin Baker, and in recent years Chris Webber, Tim Thomas, Steve Francis, Derek Fisher, Troy Hudson, Adonal Foyle, and others have all agreed to buyouts. In a buyout situation, the team pays a player a reduced amount, and allows that player to become an unrestricted free agent (after they clear waivers). The team executing the buyout is responsible for the agreed upon sum, with the cap hit being divided out equally among the remaining years of the contract (ie, in Vin Baker's deal, he had three years on his deal, and he agreed to a $16 million buyout. Thus, the team carried a $5.33 million cap hit on its salary cap for three years.)

http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1136&Itemid=33


Vin Baker had 3yrs left bought out in spring of 03' and here's what his buyout looked like
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bakervi01.html(bottom of page)


I'm going to have to send you home to your mom with an F cause you FAIL. Come back tomorrow to get your cabbage some exercise.



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-24-2008 5:45 PM]

I don't think you get it--if we find a team that would like Zach at the 3 year 15mm$ level--of which there would be more than 1 we can simply buy out the rest of his contract-15mm$--he still gets his 3 years 49mm$ in return he gets to go WHERE he wants and we actually do get considerable savings on the cap. Zach is NOT taking less--we are just restructuring and moving him. The incentive for zach is to go basically where he wants.

The Knicks arent going to capitulate into an obnoxious buyout--but this is reasonable on all sides--this is how deals get done

In order for him to sign somewhere else he has to agree to a buyout figure. You can't tell him to go away for $15mil while he keeps his current contract at $48mil Briggs. Players can't have two contracts on two separate teams. The buyout figure is established and then the terms as to how you go about getting that player his money in done in the negotiations.

It's real simple. It gets down to how much of the money does the player want to give up to play elsewhere. Please don't make me find Sam Cassell's quote to bring this full cirlce, which allowed him to become a celtics.

WOW!

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-24-2008 6:02 PM]

Posted by TMS:

apology accepted douchebag.

Posted by BRIGGS:


That is done in the back channels by the agents -look at Steve Francis last year--he agreed to take 3mm less from Portland to sign with Houston. He didn't take a buyout not knowing where that money was coming from.

The Knicks were happy to get Zach Randolph. The Trail Blazers were happy to clear space for Greg Oden. Steve Francis might be the happiest of all.


Francis
The Trail Blazers have agreed to terms on a buyout with Francis, who was acquired in a draft night deal with the Knicks.

Francis, who was due $34 million over the final two years of his contract, was expected to clear waivers and become an unrestricted free agent.

The terms of the buyout with the Trail Blazers were not released. The deal was first confirmed Wednesday by the Washington office of Francis' longtime agent, Jeff Fried.

The Washington Post and Newsday reported on Tuesday that Portland will pay more than $30 million of the $33.6 million that the former All-Star guard is due.

Portland sent Randolph, along with Fred Jones and Dan Dickau, to the Knicks for Francis and Channing Frye on draft night on June 28. Almost immediately word surfaced that the Blazers would try to buy out Francis' deal.

"This was the definition of a win-win situation with Isiah and the Knicks getting Zach Randolph and Steve being the ultimate beneficiary in being bought out," Fried said on Tuesday, according to Newsday.

"This move will provide us greater financial flexibility as we continue to build a successful team for years to come," Blazers general manager Kevin Pritchard said.

Francis was acquired just before the trade deadline in 2006 with the idea that he would play alongside Stephon Marbury in the backcourt.

But Francis never seemed comfortable under Larry Brown or Isiah Thomas, and left the team last season to rehabilitate an injured knee in Houston, sparking speculation that the Knicks were trying to reach a buyout.

The Dallas Mavericks and Los Angeles Clippers have been rumored to be interested in signing Francis. The guard's longtime friend and former Rockets teammate Cuttino Mobley plays for the Clippers.

According to the Post, Fried said that the buyout allows his client to find the "right fit as opposed to the most money. He doesn't need much to be made whole."

Francis averaged a career-low 11.3 points per game last year, his first full season in New York. He has career averages of 18.4 points and 6.1 assists per game. Francis made the All-Star Game from 2002-04 while with Houston.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:


That is done in the back channels by the agents -look at Steve Francis last year--he agreed to take 3mm less from Portland to sign with Houston. He didn't take a buyout not knowing where that money was coming from.

Briggs I already understood your point the first time you made it last week. You're essentially saying find a team to offset his buyout figure. We're talking about how unrealistic it is to think Zach will settle for pennies on the dollar and in today's day and age players aren't looking to break even, they're looking to come out ahead.

ROTFLOL at your example it further proves my point Steve Francis.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2932433

The Knicks were happy to get Zach Randolph. The Trail Blazers were happy to clear space for Greg Oden. Steve Francis might be the happiest of all.


Francis
The Trail Blazers have agreed to terms on a buyout with Francis, who was acquired in a draft night deal with the Knicks.

Francis, who was due $34 million over the final two years of his contract, was expected to clear waivers and become an unrestricted free agent.

The terms of the buyout with the Trail Blazers were not released. The deal was first confirmed Wednesday by the Washington office of Francis' longtime agent, Jeff Fried.

The Washington Post and Newsday reported on Tuesday that Portland will pay more than $30 million of the $33.6 million that the former All-Star guard is due.

Portland sent Randolph, along with Fred Jones and Dan Dickau, to the Knicks for Francis and Channing Frye on draft night on June 28. Almost immediately word surfaced that the Blazers would try to buy out Francis' deal.

"This was the definition of a win-win situation with Isiah and the Knicks getting Zach Randolph and Steve being the ultimate beneficiary in being bought out," Fried said on Tuesday, according to Newsday.

"This move will provide us greater financial flexibility as we continue to build a successful team for years to come," Blazers general manager Kevin Pritchard said.

Francis was acquired just before the trade deadline in 2006 with the idea that he would play alongside Stephon Marbury in the backcourt.

But Francis never seemed comfortable under Larry Brown or Isiah Thomas, and left the team last season to rehabilitate an injured knee in Houston, sparking speculation that the Knicks were trying to reach a buyout.

The Dallas Mavericks and Los Angeles Clippers have been rumored to be interested in signing Francis. The guard's longtime friend and former Rockets teammate Cuttino Mobley plays for the Clippers.

According to the Post, Fried said that the buyout allows his client to find the "right fit as opposed to the most money. He doesn't need much to be made whole."

Francis averaged a career-low 11.3 points per game last year, his first full season in New York. He has career averages of 18.4 points and 6.1 assists per game. Francis made the All-Star Game from 2002-04 while with Houston.

He was due $34mil for the remaining 2yrs yet accepted a $3mil buyout which means Portland was on the hook for $30mil and since the buyout was so small what is their cap hit this yr?

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/portland.htm

What's the % difference between $30mil/$34mil? It's about 9%. So using this example Zach's $48mil owed he'd agree to a buyout of approximately $43mil. Zach would be primarily interested in making that difference back from another team over the course of that current contract yr. He could become a Free Agent and get a full MLE deal more than likely afterwards

As you can see players don't give up money like you're trying to present. Why would a 20/10 C play for pennies on the dollar messing up his future earnings while giving money away? Basically you're saying Zach wouldn't give a F about future earnings but instead he would turn his lucrative contract into a front loaded one that depreciates drastically over time.

This isn't the Wizard of Oz Briggs seriously.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-24-2008 6:31 PM]

"At this time in the draft, you hear a lot of rumors that are based on discussions," Walsh said Tuesday from the Knicks' practice center at Greenburgh. "I don't know how many of those discussions ever come to fruition. Everybody is talking to everybody."

Posted by Vmart:

Westbrook has bust potential. Vastly overrated by people on the board.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Vmart:

Westbrook has bust potential. Vastly overrated by people on the board.

There isn't going to be a player taken outside of the top 2 or 3 that doesn't have a pretty decent bust potential. I don't think anybody is overlooking Westbrooks. At least for a player with his defensive abilities, his downside is that of a decent defender coming off the bench. For guys who are known only for their offense, their downside is much greater since they become pretty useless if they can't score at the NBA level. Think JJ Reddick.