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Assuming the first five picks are as expected, who is your choice with the sixth pick.
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Ira
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There's a harmonic convergence between the first five players selected between nbadraft.net and draftexpress.com. Both have the first five going as Rose Beasley Mayo Bayless Love Many here seem to agree with that group of five in some order will be the first five players selected. My question is who you would use on the sixth pick. Let's keep it focused on individual players. We can consider the possibility of trading up or trading down in another thread.
Anthony Randolph
Eric Gordon
Russell Westbrook
Brook Lopez
Danilo Gallinari
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BRIGGS
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6/14/2008  9:21 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by King1:

I would guess Camby is closer to 240 than 215.

camby was 220 in his junior year of college in 96 - but he was also one of the most dominant players in the sport. he outplayed duncan that year. anthony randolph is good, and if he stayed in college three years he may have developed like camby did, but now he's going to have to learn at the nba level. i like what i've seen of him. 15ppg 8rpg and 2bpg is pretty impressive, especially as a freshman.

220 as a junior is very questionable maybe 210 with a wet shirt at best he was 180 coming into school he had a few fainting spells at umass during his career because of dehydration. I would say 220 when he was a Knick
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Ira
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6/14/2008  10:46 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Another player i was thinking about is Marcus Camby in terms of build--they are different players but I can tell you Marcus Camby was 6-10 180 pounds when he chose Umass over Uconn. His first year numbers at Umass were 10 points 6 rebounds 3 blocks. He is no where near skilled doffensively as Randolph but kind of comparing the builds. I guess David lee can pile drive Camby to the ground for rebounds because Camby weighs maybe 215 still

nba.com lists Camby's weight at 235.
BRIGGS
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6/14/2008  10:53 PM
Posted by Ira:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Another player i was thinking about is Marcus Camby in terms of build--they are different players but I can tell you Marcus Camby was 6-10 180 pounds when he chose Umass over Uconn. His first year numbers at Umass were 10 points 6 rebounds 3 blocks. He is no where near skilled doffensively as Randolph but kind of comparing the builds. I guess David lee can pile drive Camby to the ground for rebounds because Camby weighs maybe 215 still

nba.com lists Camby's weight at 235.

Camby was 180 pounds when he was 18. Im just saying that Randolph will mature to 220-225 grow an inch and we will miss a shaun marion type 4 because we cant see farther than today.
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Ira
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6/14/2008  10:57 PM
Randolph could very well be the guy. The biggest question with him is whether he can put on muscle. Some players never do. Another question is, if he does put on weight will that slow him down?

His athleticism is overrated. At the Orlando camp, in four measures of athleticism, he tied with Love in one (max vertical jump) and was behind Love in the other three (no-step vertical, lane agility and 3/4 court sprint).

Whether he can develop a reliable jump shot is another question. He hasn't shown enough of a jumper to make me feel confident of that.

There are things to like about the guy. He's a great ball handler for his size, he's tall with long arms and likes to attack the basket and he does block shots. But there are too many questions about him for me to feel confident that he's worth the sixth pick in the draft.

[Edited by - ira on 06-14-2008 10:57 PM]
McK1
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6/14/2008  11:08 PM
Westbrook.

The more footage of him I watch the more he puts me in the mindstate of a Tony Parker. With the rules being what they are for perimeter players, he could be phenomenal!
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BRIGGS
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6/14/2008  11:09 PM
Posted by Ira:

Randolph could very well be the guy. The biggest question with him is whether he can put on muscle. Some players never do. Another question is, if he does put on weight will that slow him down?

His athleticism is overrated. At the Orlando camp, in four measures of athleticism, he tied with Love in one (max vertical jump) and was behind Love in the other three (no-step vertical, lane agility and 3/4 court sprint).

Whether he can develop a reliable jump shot is another question. He hasn't shown enough of a jumper to make me feel confident of that.

There are things to like about the guy. He's a great ball handler for his size, he's tall with long arms and likes to attack the basket and he does block shots. But there are too many questions about him for me to feel confident that he's worth the sixth pick in the draft.

[Edited by - ira on 06-14-2008 10:57 PM]

Ira--stop and think for a moment--he is 18 years old! How many atheletes become bigger and more explosive by the time their 21-22? He lifted the bar as many times as Brook Lopez who is 260. As for his shot--look at his form--he has a very nice lefty stroke. He has an explosive long first step which could be awesome in a split set. The guy has the ability to pull the rbound down and play 1 on the break. You can use him in a big set at 2G--hes got a very nice mid range game--imagine him posting up a 6-3 g or letting him work a slow PF or C. The guy handles the ball BETTER than Eric Gordon!
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BRIGGS
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6/14/2008  11:11 PM
Posted by McK1:

Westbrook.

The more footage of him I watch the more he puts me in the mindstate of a Tony Parker. With the rules being what they are for perimeter players, he could be phenomenal!

Like I said I think this is the list at 6

Forget Beasley and Rose
Mayo
Bayless
Randolph Westbrook
Love

thats 7 guys--we are going to get a great prospect at 6.
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King1
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6/14/2008  11:14 PM
If this guy is so great why isnt anyone talking about taking him in the top five? The reason is he cant finish, doesnt have a great motor, or a great feel for the game.
Ira
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6/14/2008  11:18 PM
Posted by McK1:

Westbrook.

The more footage of him I watch the more he puts me in the mindstate of a Tony Parker. With the rules being what they are for perimeter players, he could be phenomenal!

I like him too. He would have been the starting point on UCLA if Collison weren't there. He's got good size, he passes the ball well, runs very well and plays very good d and he's got a great first step. He seems to have good intangibles, too.
BRIGGS
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6/14/2008  11:22 PM
Posted by King1:

If this guy is so great why isnt anyone talking about taking him in the top five? The reason is he cant finish, doesnt have a great motor, or a great feel for the game.

If that is true how did he average 15.6 points 8.5 rebounds 2.3 blocks
and have high games as a freshmen in the SEC of
29 points vs Alabama
19 rebounds vs Vanderbilt
Multiple 4-5 block games
4 assists vs Auburn
4 steals vs Auburn

If he doesnt have a feel for the game how does he handle the rock so well? If he didnt have a good motor how did he pull down 19 rebounds in one game at 18 years old?

He's a top 10 draft pick

If he went back to school he wouldve had a legit shot at pick 1 next year

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Ira
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6/14/2008  11:26 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Ira:

Randolph could very well be the guy. The biggest question with him is whether he can put on muscle. Some players never do. Another question is, if he does put on weight will that slow him down?

His athleticism is overrated. At the Orlando camp, in four measures of athleticism, he tied with Love in one (max vertical jump) and was behind Love in the other three (no-step vertical, lane agility and 3/4 court sprint).

Whether he can develop a reliable jump shot is another question. He hasn't shown enough of a jumper to make me feel confident of that.

There are things to like about the guy. He's a great ball handler for his size, he's tall with long arms and likes to attack the basket and he does block shots. But there are too many questions about him for me to feel confident that he's worth the sixth pick in the draft.

[Edited by - ira on 06-14-2008 10:57 PM]

Ira--stop and think for a moment--he is 18 years old! How many atheletes become bigger and more explosive by the time their 21-22? He lifted the bar as many times as Brook Lopez who is 260. As for his shot--look at his form--he has a very nice lefty stroke. He has an explosive long first step which could be awesome in a split set. The guy has the ability to pull the rbound down and play 1 on the break. You can use him in a big set at 2G--hes got a very nice mid range game--imagine him posting up a 6-3 g or letting him work a slow PF or C. The guy handles the ball BETTER than Eric Gordon!

Well, I do like his ball handling. I have to give you that. As far as posting up a smaller pf or c, he'll get killed - seriously. Like I said in another thread, imagine what Oakley would do to him. Someone on a another board pointed out that Kevin Durant found out early on what it's like for a skinny guy to go to the hoop in the nba. Durant soon decided he'd stay on the perimeter. But Randolph doesn't have a good enough outside shot to spend much time on the perimeter. I agree that he does have quite a lot of upside. If all the if's work out, Anthony Randolph will be a very good player. But there are too many questions to take him so early. Maybe someone will take a chance on him early in the draft. Maybe it will be the Knicks. I hope not.

[Edited by - ira on 06-14-2008 11:28 PM]

[Edited by - ira on 06-14-2008 11:29 PM]
BRIGGS
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6/14/2008  11:55 PM
Posted by Ira:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Ira:

Randolph could very well be the guy. The biggest question with him is whether he can put on muscle. Some players never do. Another question is, if he does put on weight will that slow him down?

His athleticism is overrated. At the Orlando camp, in four measures of athleticism, he tied with Love in one (max vertical jump) and was behind Love in the other three (no-step vertical, lane agility and 3/4 court sprint).

Whether he can develop a reliable jump shot is another question. He hasn't shown enough of a jumper to make me feel confident of that.

There are things to like about the guy. He's a great ball handler for his size, he's tall with long arms and likes to attack the basket and he does block shots. But there are too many questions about him for me to feel confident that he's worth the sixth pick in the draft.

[Edited by - ira on 06-14-2008 10:57 PM]

Ira--stop and think for a moment--he is 18 years old! How many atheletes become bigger and more explosive by the time their 21-22? He lifted the bar as many times as Brook Lopez who is 260. As for his shot--look at his form--he has a very nice lefty stroke. He has an explosive long first step which could be awesome in a split set. The guy has the ability to pull the rbound down and play 1 on the break. You can use him in a big set at 2G--hes got a very nice mid range game--imagine him posting up a 6-3 g or letting him work a slow PF or C. The guy handles the ball BETTER than Eric Gordon!

Well, I do like his ball handling. I have to give you that. As far as posting up a smaller pf or c, he'll get killed - seriously. Like I said in another thread, imagine what Oakley would do to him. Someone on a another board pointed out that Kevin Durant found out early on what it's like for a skinny guy to go to the hoop in the nba. Durant soon decided he'd stay on the perimeter. But Randolph doesn't have a good enough outside shot to spend much time on the perimeter. I agree that he does have quite a lot of upside. If all the if's work out, Anthony Randolph will be a very good player. But there are too many questions to take him so early. Maybe someone will take a chance on him early in the draft. Maybe it will be the Knicks. I hope not.

[Edited by - ira on 06-14-2008 11:28 PM]

[Edited by - ira on 06-14-2008 11:29 PM]

If I had to put my guess into it we will end up with either Mayo Bayless or Love. I think cryz is right that they want a player without a scintila of development time.
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Vmart
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6/15/2008  12:53 AM
At 6th pick you have to give consideration to Randolph. He has length and that is what the Knicks have been missing. I just hope he isn't another Jared Jefferies. Randolph is very young and his weight shouldn't be an issue especially if the Knicks are planning to run and gun. Another thing he is only 18 right now and who knows a slight growth spurt might get him close to 7'. Now imagine a player wih his skill level and height getting up and down the floor. He will do damage in the league.
BRIGGS
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6/15/2008  3:34 AM
Posted by Vmart:

At 6th pick you have to give consideration to Randolph. He has length and that is what the Knicks have been missing. I just hope he isn't another Jared Jefferies. Randolph is very young and his weight shouldn't be an issue especially if the Knicks are planning to run and gun. Another thing he is only 18 right now and who knows a slight growth spurt might get him close to 7'. Now imagine a player wih his skill level and height getting up and down the floor. He will do damage in the league.

I am convinced beyond any shadow of any doubt that Randolph is the next best talent in this order with these 5 players taken. I've eliminated Westbrook Gordon Alexander Jordan etc..... from the top 6

The six players in order of talent level IMHO

1A Beasley
1B Rose
3 Mayo
4 Love
5 Bayless
6 Randolph
-------------

We have to be patient and be smart about it and let this player develop into a very serious weapon for us. The ultimate directive in the draft is to get the BEST long term player--the player that will be the best for the Knicks over time and if the top 5 fall like the mocks have it--we are in position to get one helluva player. I dont want to trade down out accross backwards--this is a 6 player draft and w eare at 6.
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Anji
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6/15/2008  8:12 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Ira:

Randolph could very well be the guy. The biggest question with him is whether he can put on muscle. Some players never do. Another question is, if he does put on weight will that slow him down?

His athleticism is overrated. At the Orlando camp, in four measures of athleticism, he tied with Love in one (max vertical jump) and was behind Love in the other three (no-step vertical, lane agility and 3/4 court sprint).

Whether he can develop a reliable jump shot is another question. He hasn't shown enough of a jumper to make me feel confident of that.

There are things to like about the guy. He's a great ball handler for his size, he's tall with long arms and likes to attack the basket and he does block shots. But there are too many questions about him for me to feel confident that he's worth the sixth pick in the draft.

[Edited by - ira on 06-14-2008 10:57 PM]

Ira--stop and think for a moment--he is 18 years old! How many atheletes become bigger and more explosive by the time their 21-22? He lifted the bar as many times as Brook Lopez who is 260. As for his shot--look at his form--he has a very nice lefty stroke. He has an explosive long first step which could be awesome in a split set. The guy has the ability to pull the rbound down and play 1 on the break. You can use him in a big set at 2G--hes got a very nice mid range game--imagine him posting up a 6-3 g or letting him work a slow PF or C. The guy handles the ball BETTER than Eric Gordon!

That's the funny thing, guys who are 21-22 are still in line to get bigger and more explosive to compete in the NBA...... this guy isn't even at that point. He is two years away from that and is as good as anybody.
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BRIGGS
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6/15/2008  6:33 PM
Posted by Anji:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Ira:

Randolph could very well be the guy. The biggest question with him is whether he can put on muscle. Some players never do. Another question is, if he does put on weight will that slow him down?

His athleticism is overrated. At the Orlando camp, in four measures of athleticism, he tied with Love in one (max vertical jump) and was behind Love in the other three (no-step vertical, lane agility and 3/4 court sprint).

Whether he can develop a reliable jump shot is another question. He hasn't shown enough of a jumper to make me feel confident of that.

There are things to like about the guy. He's a great ball handler for his size, he's tall with long arms and likes to attack the basket and he does block shots. But there are too many questions about him for me to feel confident that he's worth the sixth pick in the draft.

[Edited by - ira on 06-14-2008 10:57 PM]

Ira--stop and think for a moment--he is 18 years old! How many atheletes become bigger and more explosive by the time their 21-22? He lifted the bar as many times as Brook Lopez who is 260. As for his shot--look at his form--he has a very nice lefty stroke. He has an explosive long first step which could be awesome in a split set. The guy has the ability to pull the rbound down and play 1 on the break. You can use him in a big set at 2G--hes got a very nice mid range game--imagine him posting up a 6-3 g or letting him work a slow PF or C. The guy handles the ball BETTER than Eric Gordon!

That's the funny thing, guys who are 21-22 are still in line to get bigger and more explosive to compete in the NBA...... this guy isn't even at that point. He is two years away from that and is as good as anybody.

From Draftexpress

Randolph could theoretically fill a role similar to the one played by Shawn Marion in Phoenix, although he seems to lack the same type of hustle Marion possesses


This is exactly what I believe to although I think he will play hard and has a potential much more diverse offensive skills than marion. In the system the 4 man has a great chance at a lot of easy baskets and what better to fill that role than with an athletic 6-10++ player with a 9-2 reach and a long wingspan and poccess's a strong bounce off the floor to go with that long package. He's an easy pick

I can see the future of the team's frontline

C-Lee 6-9 260
F Randolph 6-11 220
F Chandler 6-8 225
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Anji
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6/15/2008  6:40 PM
Lee at 260???? I dunno about that, but Randolph/Chandler would be a good mix next season.
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VDesai
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6/16/2008  8:53 AM
Posted by Vmart:

At 6th pick you have to give consideration to Randolph. He has length and that is what the Knicks have been missing. I just hope he isn't another Jared Jefferies. Randolph is very young and his weight shouldn't be an issue especially if the Knicks are planning to run and gun. Another thing he is only 18 right now and who knows a slight growth spurt might get him close to 7'. Now imagine a player wih his skill level and height getting up and down the floor. He will do damage in the league.

Jared Jeffries- that is exactly my fear with this player. He does not have a refined game at all and sounds a lot more awesome in theory. He certainly has the upside potential, but I think he has a lot of growing up to do on the NBA level and it will be difficult for him if he can't get off the bench early.
Ira
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6/16/2008  11:39 AM
awesome in theory

That phrase is a keeper. Think of how many prospects - past and present - it can be used to describe.
BRIGGS
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6/16/2008  11:48 AM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by Vmart:

At 6th pick you have to give consideration to Randolph. He has length and that is what the Knicks have been missing. I just hope he isn't another Jared Jefferies. Randolph is very young and his weight shouldn't be an issue especially if the Knicks are planning to run and gun. Another thing he is only 18 right now and who knows a slight growth spurt might get him close to 7'. Now imagine a player wih his skill level and height getting up and down the floor. He will do damage in the league.

Jared Jeffries- that is exactly my fear with this player. He does not have a refined game at all and sounds a lot more awesome in theory. He certainly has the upside potential, but I think he has a lot of growing up to do on the NBA level and it will be difficult for him if he can't get off the bench early.

The only thing in common between Jefferies and Randolph is height and both have the ability to guard both frontcourt and backcourt players with that size. But that is where the similarity ends. Randolph has a very nice shot---he took a large number of FS this year and shot 70%. Only 41% of his shots were in the lane and he only took 19 3s all year so he hit a large % of mid range shots--that is his shot. In the uptempo 4 position you get many more opportunities right at the rim which would drag him from a 50% shooter quickly --he's a very good shot blocker hes a very good rebounder he can bring the ball up like a G. The only knock on him honestly is youth and body weight --both ususally go hand in hand. If he practices and trains hard--he could be an all star level player in this system/
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Assuming the first five picks are as expected, who is your choice with the sixth pick.
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