Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by fishmike:

DW said he wanted to have a coach in place before the draft.

Maybe he knows Stern is rigging this thing and he knows the best coach for Derrick Rose OJ Mayo is Mike D'Antoni.

1) The Suns ranked 4th in the NBA in pace last year. What that means is that, on offense and defense, the Suns had the 4th most possessions in the league last year. When you regularly play at that heavy a pace, you're going to see more points scored on both ends than the rest of the league.

2) Even with the faster pace, the Suns ranked no.1 in the NBA in offensive efficiency, or points scored per 100 possessions. So they were the best team in the NBA in terms of scoring efficiency, not just one of the best teams in terms of volume scoring. By contrast, other fast paced scoring teams like Denver and Golden State averaged 3-4 pts below Phoenix in this mark.

3) The Suns ranked 16th in the league in defensive efficiency. So they were 16th in terms of points allowed per 100 possessions. By contrast the Knicks were 29th and gave up 5 more pts per 100. So the Suns were a full tier above the Knicks in defense. And further, the Suns ranked 9th in league in effective FG% allowed (effective FG=(FGM+3PM/2)/FGA)). The cause for the disparity was that the Suns were one of the bottom 5 teams in creating turnovers (ranked closely with the Knicks).

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Vmart:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Vmart:

Posted by VDesai:

I have not had a chance chime on D'Antoni yet, but a couple of thoughts about him and the defense criticism

1) The Suns ranked 4th in the NBA in pace last year. What that means is that, on offense and defense, the Suns had the 4th most possessions in the league last year. When you regularly play at that heavy a pace, you're going to see more points scored on both ends than the rest of the league.

2) Even with the faster pace, the Suns ranked no.1 in the NBA in offensive efficiency, or points scored per 100 possessions. So they were the best team in the NBA in terms of scoring efficiency, not just one of the best teams in terms of volume scoring. By contrast, other fast paced scoring teams like Denver and Golden State averaged 3-4 pts below Phoenix in this mark.

3) The Suns ranked 16th in the league in defensive efficiency. So they were 16th in terms of points allowed per 100 possessions. By contrast the Knicks were 29th and gave up 5 more pts per 100. So the Suns were a full tier above the Knicks in defense. And further, the Suns ranked 9th in league in effective FG% allowed (effective FG=(FGM+3PM/2)/FGA)). The cause for the disparity was that the Suns were one of the bottom 5 teams in creating turnovers (ranked closely with the Knicks).

But I think my conclusion is that you can't say this was a coach or a team that was de-emphasizing defense if they could rank top 10 in eFG allowed. It was a team that wasn't great on defense- but considering some of the individual defenders in their lineup like Nash, Amare (a much improved defensive player in recent seasons, though not a stalwart) and Shaq (too slow) you're not gonna be outstanding. Nash in particular cannot defend quick PG's (as demonstrated again in the playoffs), but he makes such a big difference on the offensive end that you can't really play him less minutes for defense.

4) Mike D'Antoni is one of the select few coaches in the NBA that has really demonstrated a vision. He created a system, had the players to fit it, and was very successful because they were playing a way that nobody in the NBA was playing at the time. The ability to see the big picture and go against the grain is something that is extremely valuable in a coach.

That he'll coach the Knicks the same way that he coached the Suns is not a given. But if he does choose to, I am extremely confident that the Walsh and D'Antoni will find the players who can run this system effectively. The Knicks do have several players on the roster that can thrive in an uptempo game (the ones we like), and several players who cannot (namely Zach, Curry, Marbury or the ones we don't).

If the Knicks were to play a faster pace, they'd be on of a handful of teams in the Eastern Conference to do so, and going against the grain could give them the advantage they need to be a playoff team in this conference. Will it ultimately win them the championship? It might be harder to thrive like that in the West where the playoff teams are a deeper and you have to face a team like the Spurs in the first round. A team that could legitimately play up tempo in the East I would suspect would go a lot farther.

This is an excellent post VDeai. You seem to see the entire picture better than most here. Everyone assumes that Suns didn't play defense but they played defense. When a team plays a fast pace other teams will get more shot too. One of the most important stat is the point differential the Suns were one of the top team in the dept.

This post isn't all that considering the pieces D'Antoni had to run his flash in the pan system. We don't have Shawn Marion, Amare Stoudemire, Raja Bell, or even a Boris Diaw and even with all those players the Suns were an easy team so score on, especially when it came playoff time.

Raja Bell was a backup player on the Sixers you could find these type of players. Amare and Shawn Marion are very good player but are you so concerned about what we don't have than what we could eventually get. Last I looked Amare was a 9th pick in the Draft this year we have a possibly the top pick coming to the Knicks. Next year will give the KNicks another pick. Don't be so negative You have to have a system in place so you can add players to fit it.

You call his system a flash in the pan, flash in the pan lasts for a year or less. He has produced average of 58 wins over the last 4 years. You are hating on D'Anotni because of the current roster, you know that is going to change now. People here wanted change and your getting change.

Since D'Antoni is so good next yr pick will be somewhat low right? And if we don't win the lottery or trade the pick then what? You are aware the Suns were 3-13 when Steve Nash missed games under D'Antoni's tenure. So where are we getting our Steve Nash from?

Trueblue, ur not making valid arguements in my mind. First off, what coach do you expect to do well with this roster? Greg Popovich? Oh wait, we don't have Tim Duncan. Larry Brown? Oh wait we tried that already. Pat Riley? Oh wait, we don't have Shaq, Mourning, Tim Hardaway, Patrick Ewing ect...

Dude, take a chill pill and maybe have yourself a taco. There's no way this is the roster D'Antoni wants to go to war with in the first place. We have to gut it. Then if we finally get good players and they aren't playing well, maybe you can blame D'Antoni. However, we have bad players and it's a bad team. Hence, Mark Jackson wouldn't have been able to turn this team around. Not Larry Brown. Certainly not Isiah and I'm sure this would be Jeff Van Gundy's nightmare. Mike D'Antoni shouldn't be expected of it either. He should be expected to hold players accountable though and instill whatever system is important, so that our rebuilt team in the future will be good to go.

Posted by PhilinLA:

This is an interesting repudiation of everything Isiah has done outside of the draft. Nevertheless, if we don't hit the jackpot in the lottery, the games will once again look funny next year.

Posted by VDesai:

I have not had a chance chime on D'Antoni yet, but a couple of thoughts about him and the defense criticism

1) The Suns ranked 4th in the NBA in pace last year. What that means is that, on offense and defense, the Suns had the 4th most possessions in the league last year. When you regularly play at that heavy a pace, you're going to see more points scored on both ends than the rest of the league.

2) Even with the faster pace, the Suns ranked no.1 in the NBA in offensive efficiency, or points scored per 100 possessions. So they were the best team in the NBA in terms of scoring efficiency, not just one of the best teams in terms of volume scoring. By contrast, other fast paced scoring teams like Denver and Golden State averaged 3-4 pts below Phoenix in this mark.

3) The Suns ranked 16th in the league in defensive efficiency. So they were 16th in terms of points allowed per 100 possessions. By contrast the Knicks were 29th and gave up 5 more pts per 100. So the Suns were a full tier above the Knicks in defense. And further, the Suns ranked 9th in league in effective FG% allowed (effective FG=(FGM+3PM/2)/FGA)). The cause for the disparity was that the Suns were one of the bottom 5 teams in creating turnovers (ranked closely with the Knicks).

But I think my conclusion is that you can't say this was a coach or a team that was de-emphasizing defense if they could rank top 10 in eFG allowed. It was a team that wasn't great on defense- but considering some of the individual defenders in their lineup like Nash, Amare (a much improved defensive player in recent seasons, though not a stalwart) and Shaq (too slow) you're not gonna be outstanding. Nash in particular cannot defend quick PG's (as demonstrated again in the playoffs), but he makes such a big difference on the offensive end that you can't really play him less minutes for defense.

4) Mike D'Antoni is one of the select few coaches in the NBA that has really demonstrated a vision. He created a system, had the players to fit it, and was very successful because they were playing a way that nobody in the NBA was playing at the time. The ability to see the big picture and go against the grain is something that is extremely valuable in a coach.

That he'll coach the Knicks the same way that he coached the Suns is not a given. But if he does choose to, I am extremely confident that the Walsh and D'Antoni will find the players who can run this system effectively. The Knicks do have several players on the roster that can thrive in an uptempo game (the ones we like), and several players who cannot (namely Zach, Curry, Marbury or the ones we don't).

If the Knicks were to play a faster pace, they'd be on of a handful of teams in the Eastern Conference to do so, and going against the grain could give them the advantage they need to be a playoff team in this conference. Will it ultimately win them the championship? It might be harder to thrive like that in the West where the playoff teams are a deeper and you have to face a team like the Spurs in the first round. A team that could legitimately play up tempo in the East I would suspect would go a lot farther.

Posted by VDesai:

My response was to your comment saying the "games will once again look funny." I don't think there's anything that could change the games looking funny when you're personnell is as mishmashed as this.

The one distinct possibility that could change that was having a roster philosophy in place and having D'Antoni/Walsh as the starting point of people in charge does as much as can be done to change that.

[Edited by - vdesai on 05-10-2008 3:54 PM]

Posted by PhilinLA:

Posted by VDesai:

My response was to your comment saying the "games will once again look funny." I don't think there's anything that could change the games looking funny when you're personnell is as mishmashed as this.

The one distinct possibility that could change that was having a roster philosophy in place and having D'Antoni/Walsh as the starting point of people in charge does as much as can be done to change that.

[Edited by - vdesai on 05-10-2008 3:54 PM]

I'm not expecting the same team back, are you? My assertion is, if we get the right guard through the lottery, whatever else we do, the games will offer more that opportuties to indulge to one degree or another in masochism. I think we got a good coach, but we need a good pick, and that will help us better tolerate the rest of the turnover process.