Posted by TMS:

Bip, i'm not trying to say I told you so about M Will cuz he hasn't done jack in this league, same as Balk... neither have really proven they're better than the other AFAIC... in my eyes it's pretty much a wash... we got what we needed at the time which was an athletic SF, that's good enough for me.

as for there only being 4 or 5 guys who fall under that description, i gotta disagree w/u on that too bro... i think the predominant trend of late has been to be very critical about our players no matter if they have a good game or not... losing games will do that to a fanbase, that much i can understand, & i'm definitely not one to say i haven't been critical of my share of players on this team either, but when guys start pointing out good games that players on other teams are having while downplaying very similar games our guys have, it just strikes me as odd... just MHO.

Oh yeah, I never said this but I agree with TMS in this thread. I think people on this board under rate our players and over rate other team's players, when players on other teams put up the same numbers that players on our team have before. I guess i never said it, because I just never really got in on this argument.

marcus williams is on the knicks? oh wait....

I was at the Nets game tonight Vs. the Pacers, seated about 50 feet from the basket and just behind it.

I had a good chance to observe Marcus Williams up close. He had a pretty good game numbers-wise. Here is what I noticed.

If Williams sticks to the game plan he delivers passes well. He benefited tonight from a very hot Jefferson and Carter, but I don't want to take away all his credit, he has good synergy with Boone, his teammate from Uconn. When Boone rolls to the basket Williams is good at getting him a nice-placed lob or shovel/bounce pass.

If he freelances, things get messy immediately. He was only charged with 2 turnovers, but he probably had 5-6 more plays where it might as well have been a turnover because he got lost and delivered the ball to a player in poor position. Then that player had to jack up a shot with the clock running down or they got stripped because they had nowhere to go.

He shoots well if he takes a shot with his feet set in the flow of the offense. If he is creating his shot, he resorts to high-degree of difficulty shots and he misses almost all of those.

His defense is as bad as Crawfords, maybe worse. The Pacers went at him play after play and they scored easily or caused the defense to help too much because he was either blown by or shot over very easily. In the game last night Diener ate him alive. Tonight Deiner got the shots he wanted when he wanted them but he was off the mark.

Rebounding: He got a lot of boards but he didn't fight for them like a Jason Kidd or mark jackson. Still he rebounded much better than Eddie Curry though.

Summation: Williams has a looong way to go to be a starting level point guard. If he sticks to what he does well and tones down on the fancy stuff he can be a good backup PG for a good team or a starter on a bad team.

HIs minutes will diminish quickly once Harris arrives, and Armstrong might get the backup run because he plays good defense.

The problem is consistency. Even in his good games he has a lot of trouble(like a Knick guard.), and he doesn't have enough good games to make up for his atrocious games(like a Knick guard.). He is very much like Crawford, or for that matter, Robinson, though right now I think Crawford/Robinson are better players.

Talented? Too Flashy? Inefficient? Horrible defense? I'm sorry guys, you were right and I was wrong. Isiah should have drafted him. He is meant to be a Knick!

oohah

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by SlimPack:

Posted by TMS:

Bip, i'm not trying to say I told you so about M Will cuz he hasn't done jack in this league, same as Balk... neither have really proven they're better than the other AFAIC... in my eyes it's pretty much a wash... we got what we needed at the time which was an athletic SF, that's good enough for me.

as for there only being 4 or 5 guys who fall under that description, i gotta disagree w/u on that too bro... i think the predominant trend of late has been to be very critical about our players no matter if they have a good game or not... losing games will do that to a fanbase, that much i can understand, & i'm definitely not one to say i haven't been critical of my share of players on this team either, but when guys start pointing out good games that players on other teams are having while downplaying very similar games our guys have, it just strikes me as odd... just MHO.

Oh yeah, I never said this but I agree with TMS in this thread. I think people on this board under rate our players and over rate other team's players, when players on other teams put up the same numbers that players on our team have before. I guess i never said it, because I just never really got in on this argument.

The problem is the last time a Knick put up 8-7-13 was probably Marc Jackson:) I don't think people on this board under-rate our players the problem is our players arent very good

Mark Jackson? 8/7/13 isnt THAT great of a statline. It couldn't of been that long ago a Knick had a game like that. Didn't MIAbury have a couple of 15+ assist games. Crawford had a 12 assist game. eh.. it's too much research for me to go into more specifics.

[Edited by - Slimpack on 02-24-2008 02:42 AM]

the only moves that i killed isiah on at the time he made them were:

-trading for curry

-trading for jalen rose

-trading for stevie francis

-drafting balkman over williams

-drafting chandler over almond

-cutting nichols

he doesn’t make those moves, and we could now be growing a young core of ty thomas (or lamarcus aldridge), joakim noah, david lee, trevor ariza, renaldo balkman (chosen with mardy’s pick), randolph morris up froint.

marcus williams, nate robinson, morris almond, demetris nichols in backcourt.

that's a team that would go through a lot of growing pains, but i'd watch them and cheer them. and even if we ended back in the lottery, we'd be growing something, rather than what we're doing now.



[Edited by - marv on 02-24-2008 10:56 AM]

Posted by SlimPack:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by SlimPack:

Posted by TMS:

Bip, i'm not trying to say I told you so about M Will cuz he hasn't done jack in this league, same as Balk... neither have really proven they're better than the other AFAIC... in my eyes it's pretty much a wash... we got what we needed at the time which was an athletic SF, that's good enough for me.

as for there only being 4 or 5 guys who fall under that description, i gotta disagree w/u on that too bro... i think the predominant trend of late has been to be very critical about our players no matter if they have a good game or not... losing games will do that to a fanbase, that much i can understand, & i'm definitely not one to say i haven't been critical of my share of players on this team either, but when guys start pointing out good games that players on other teams are having while downplaying very similar games our guys have, it just strikes me as odd... just MHO.

Oh yeah, I never said this but I agree with TMS in this thread. I think people on this board under rate our players and over rate other team's players, when players on other teams put up the same numbers that players on our team have before. I guess i never said it, because I just never really got in on this argument.

The problem is the last time a Knick put up 8-7-13 was probably Marc Jackson:) I don't think people on this board under-rate our players the problem is our players arent very good

Mark Jackson? 8/7/13 isnt THAT great of a statline. It couldn't of been that long ago a Knick had a game like that. Didn't MIAbury have a couple of 15+ assist games. Crawford had a 12 assist game. eh.. it's too much research for me to go into more specifics.

[Edited by - Slimpack on 02-24-2008 02:42 AM]

last year vs the nets, mardy collins had 23/10/7/2 not bad at all....

And to add to that, VS the bucks.. 19/12/8 plus 5 steals..

yet, many on here think mardy sucks, while marcus williams puts up lesser numbers and he gets his nuts polished..... LOL... I understand we are all frustrated as hell with this team, but sometime, I wonder about some of you guys...


[Edited by - tkf on 24-02-2008 11:19 AM]

Posted by tkf:

Posted by SlimPack:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by SlimPack:

Posted by TMS:

Bip, i'm not trying to say I told you so about M Will cuz he hasn't done jack in this league, same as Balk... neither have really proven they're better than the other AFAIC... in my eyes it's pretty much a wash... we got what we needed at the time which was an athletic SF, that's good enough for me.

as for there only being 4 or 5 guys who fall under that description, i gotta disagree w/u on that too bro... i think the predominant trend of late has been to be very critical about our players no matter if they have a good game or not... losing games will do that to a fanbase, that much i can understand, & i'm definitely not one to say i haven't been critical of my share of players on this team either, but when guys start pointing out good games that players on other teams are having while downplaying very similar games our guys have, it just strikes me as odd... just MHO.

Oh yeah, I never said this but I agree with TMS in this thread. I think people on this board under rate our players and over rate other team's players, when players on other teams put up the same numbers that players on our team have before. I guess i never said it, because I just never really got in on this argument.

The problem is the last time a Knick put up 8-7-13 was probably Marc Jackson:) I don't think people on this board under-rate our players the problem is our players arent very good

Mark Jackson? 8/7/13 isnt THAT great of a statline. It couldn't of been that long ago a Knick had a game like that. Didn't MIAbury have a couple of 15+ assist games. Crawford had a 12 assist game. eh.. it's too much research for me to go into more specifics.

[Edited by - Slimpack on 02-24-2008 02:42 AM]

last year vs the nets, mardy collins had 23/10/7/2 not bad at all....

And to add to that, VS the bucks.. 19/12/8 plus 5 steals..

yet, many on here think mardy sucks, while marcus williams puts up lesser numbers and he gets his nuts polished..... LOL... I understand we are all frustrated as hell with this team, but sometime, I wonder about some of you guys...


[Edited by - tkf on 24-02-2008 11:19 AM]

Put those 2 games together and they best this season's TOTALS.

Maybe that's why some people don't see those games as anything more than one hit wonders.

Posted by Marv:

he had some great games near seasons’ end last year.

why no carryover? is he hurt? bad attitude? lost his abilities? typical isiah the incompetent move?

It's the toxic atmosphere at the Garden. It should be declared a Superfund Site.

I don't know if it can ever be fully decontaminated, but I hope someone tries someday.

i would rather have kyle lowry OR jordan farmar over marcus williams, why is everybody so obsessed with this guy?

Posted by BigSm00th:

i would rather have kyle lowry OR jordan farmar over marcus williams, why is everybody so obsessed with this guy?

I don't think many would have a problem with them either. If we were to highlight some of their productivity it still applies. Not sure if Marcus is clearly the better player of the 3 but IMO he is the better point guard. So instead of Mardy none of those players would have put us at a greater risk than where we are now.

Posted by BigSm00th:

mardy collins sucks. once again, what is the point of this thread? this is like lamenting the jalen rose trade 2 years later. it is what it is, everyone's gotta get over it. so we dont have marcus freaking williams, big deal

We're just frustrated watching other teams rebuild with promise or put themselves in position to better their future when could be doing the same or better more effectively. There are better young players in the NBA than Marcus and there probably will be some in this yrs draft outside the Top 10 and possibly outside the Top 20.